It's Time to STOP All This Drug Madness


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It's Time to STOP All This Drug Madness

Postby dukehjsteve » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:41 am

Yesterday's "good" news just makes things worse, not better. Our sport is now a total laughingstock in the eyes of the general public, plus probably most of us(me).

Why should I or anyone else have any confidence in the drug testing ? If a negative B follows up a positive A, how many negative A's are faulty, but are never followed up by positive B's because the B's are never tested ?!



I have said it before and I will say it once more, then never again:

It is time to STOP all this. Athletes should have the individual right to ingest whatever substances they want if they are not illegal.

The Noble Experiment ( banning these drugs ) has been a total failure and has RUINED our sport.
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Legality

Postby dr ngo » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:26 am

It is time to STOP all this. Athletes should have the individual right to ingest whatever substances they want if they are not illegal.

This is a serious, albeit belated, question; I apologize if these points have all been previously covered in threads I haven't read. Are all of the drugs that athletes "ingest" in fact legal? I understood at some point during the baseball drugs debate that certain of the steroids (?) that were allegedly being used were "controlled substances" in regular (civilian, non-athletic) America, even if they had not been specified as being banned by baseball, and that therefore the players in question had presumptively commited some infraction (misdemeanor?) by using them.

This also raises the question of "legality" under different legal systems. If marijuana (admittedly not a PED!) is illegal in the US, but legal in the Netherlands, does that mean an American athlete can't use it, but a Dutch athlete can? Or that an American can only smoke it in Amsterdam, and hope the buzz carries on across international borders? A frivolous example, but one for which there are potentially much more worrying parallels with actual PEDs.

Such questions as this need to be considered if T&F is ever to contemplate your drastic (commonsensical?) "solution" to the drug problem.
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Re: It's Time to STOP All This Drug Madness

Postby tandfman » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:55 am

dukehjsteve wrote:I have said it before and I will say it once more, then never again:

It is time to STOP all this. Athletes should have the individual right to ingest whatever substances they want if they are not illegal.

Over the years, I've agreed with many of your posts, Steve. In fact, at times you've beaten me to saying exactly what I was going to say. Not on this one, though. For a whole lot of reasons that I don't really have time to go into right now (but I may have said before), I think the alphabet guys have to stay the course. Doping has obviously not yet been eliminated from our sport. But it should be, and perhaps some day will--maybe even some day soon. I, for one, hope so.
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Re: It's Time to STOP All This Drug Madness

Postby tafnut » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:08 pm

tandfman wrote: I think the alphabet guys have to stay the course.


Second the motion. Vote?
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Postby kuha » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:52 am

I may be a day late and dollar short on this, but I agree with the original post. The drugs-in-society horse has left the barn and all attempts to change the locks really won't get it back inside. We may moan and wail till we collapse, but nothing we do (or, more correctly, nothing we do that could remotely be socially tolerated or justified) can ensure total "drug-free purity" in sport (any sport, all sport). No matter how many so-called "cheats" are caught, I have no illusion that "all" of them are being caught. And if "all" of them are NOT being caught, then the situation remains "unfair" and a PR nightmare. The current fiasco with Jones simply underscores how messy and uncertain this whole process is (as if we didn't already know). I long ago gave up any illusion that much time, effort, and money should be expended in this whole pursuit... If we insist on continuing this whole business, then we should resign ourselves to the idea that drug testing is intended to put a ceiling on PED use, not to eliminate it entirely.
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Postby tafnut » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:23 am

kuha wrote:If we insist on continuing this whole business, then we should resign ourselves to the idea that drug testing is intended to put a ceiling on PED use, not to eliminate it entirely.


Which is EXACTLY why we MUST spend time, money and energy on this 'lost cause'. To give up lets the Bad Guys win. The War on Poverty, the War on Disease, the War on Ignorance, the WAR on Terrorism are ALL UNWINNABLE!!! There will always (for the far foreseeable future) be poverty, disease, ignorance and terrorists. But by continuing to wage these wars we CAN affect the welfare of SOME of the people. Same with PEDs (and any drug that can be abused to the detriment of the individual, those around him and society in general) - by continuing to fight against them we show we CARE about unethical, potentially VERY harmful, happenstances.

If we quit, surrender, give up, we are opening the door to even GREATER abuses. At least now the 'honest' people don't do them. If they are legalized, then honest people CAN take them and do irreparable damage to themselves by using the logic of, 'well, it's OK, so I guess I can't hurt myself by taking them'. Granted that PED usage, in and of inself, isn't harmful (they are, after all, prescribed by doctors to HELP people), but making them 'acceptable', the abuses will grow exponentially. Whereas now PED use can be numbered in the 1000s (I imagine), in the future, with no stigma attached, it could number in the millions. Do you really want 'normal' teenagers to be messing with HGH, EPO, anabolic steroids, etc. on a regular basis?
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Postby kuha » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:11 am

"Do you really want 'normal' teenagers to be messing with HGH, EPO, anabolic steroids, etc. on a regular basis?"

What I "want" is quite different from what I presume we already have. These things are already out there--WAY out there--in society. Ceasing to care what the top .001% of athletes ingest will have no impact on that whatsoever.

Do I have an answer? No, not really. I am under no illusion that an Olympic gold medal, for example, makes one a glorious God on Earth. It's JUST sport, as complex and messy a thing as any other human endeavor. Anyone that competes for PERSONAL satisfaction need not have any temptations to "cheat." Only those who compete for other reasons--including glory, fame, public adulation, money, etc.--are really likely to do what many consider to be unethical.

Thus, we need to celebrate and promote personal ethics and a personal sense of achievement, while viewing all these "other" reasons with the jaundiced eye they deserve.
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Postby Snation » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:39 am

I hear what the original poster is saying though. Regulation is getting ridiculously out of hand. Even though it is tough now, wait until new advances hit the track. Wait until there is gene doping, or the new nonsteroidal anabolic receptor drugs hit the market.

However, because competitors always overdo it, here is what some of the athletes will look like: http://www.ebicep.com/greg-valentino.html (scroll down)

1. Because some of the athletes don't process the medical risks of these drugs, making anything go would force all athletes to use the anabolics, thus exposing everyone to those nasty side effects.

2. Who is going to pay for the costs of the HIV (from needle sharing), liver tumors, and other lengthy illnesses? Who is going to take care of the heart attacks from HGH and AASs? Who is going to staff the ERs when these guys start coming in after ODing on insulin injections?

3. Looking at the experience of the GDR females, there will more birth defects, and mood swings.

It is attractive to think about just letting anyone do what they want. There would be meth addicts running the distance events...:-) Libidos would be wild (hey maybe this isn't such a bad idea)

In the end, though, I think fans want to see races between athletes, and not between chemists, pharmacists, and old doctors.

It is disgusting to think of Victor Conte and his brain trust running 'Project World Record'. It's almost fascist.
Last edited by Snation on Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby 26mi235 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:57 am

Your super-long url creates havoc with the default width. Also, you might have "slash-dotted (\.)" his site; I get:

The GeoCities web site you were trying to view has temporarily exceeded its data transfer limit. Please try again later.
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Postby Snation » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:21 pm

Sorry. I changed the website to something more reasonable. I saw that long link, and wondered if it would give trouble.

The fellow in question is Greg Valentino, who had 27 1/2 biceps. He was injecting 3000 mg T into his arms weekly. He is the subject of the documentary 'The Man Whose Arms Exploded'
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Postby Track fan » Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:37 pm

He is well known in bodybuilding circles. Really his saga could be the future of track, if it is we could be in store for some pro wrestling type tragedies.... :roll:
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Postby kuha » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:38 am

Track fan wrote:He is well known in bodybuilding circles. Really his saga could be the future of track, if it is we could be in store for some pro wrestling type tragedies.... :roll:


Not to defend this foolishness at all, but I don't see what relevance this guy has to PED use in track. I assume that this bicep thing is strictly for show--for flexing and strutting on stage. The bodies of t&f athletes actually have to FUNCTION smoothly and efficiently--to get them from point A to B quickly, to allow them to throw an implement, etc. This bicep sort of idiocy has nothing to do with a sport in which actual work has to be acccomplished.
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Postby guru » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:15 am

Snation wrote:Sorry. I changed the website to something more reasonable. I saw that long link, and wondered if it would give trouble.

The fellow in question is Greg Valentino, who had 27 1/2 biceps. He was injecting 3000 mg T into his arms weekly. He is the subject of the documentary 'The Man Whose Arms Exploded'



http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... hp?t=17919
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