So, Marion had the key to Bernard Lagat's back door...


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Postby eldrick » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:51 am

EPelle wrote:eldrick, I can only shake my head and smile. You:ve passed "go" without taking a look at what was on the block.

You believe Marion Jones has not been pinned by the federal government just yet because of a lack of evidence. Suppose, if you will - I know this is hard for you, but try - that there is something more complex to this situation which takes years to sift through and which to penalise.


you're insulting our intelligence

they had enough evidence to nail kelli/tim from the get go

3y later with marion...& nothing

what nonsense are you going to come up with now ?

evidence so complex that the best investigative brains in the country can't decipher it in 3y ???

is it going to take them 10 ? 100 ? 1000y ??? before they're confident the evidence will stick ???

Don:t think for a minute that Victor Conte:s short prison term at family camp and his written plea to the US President didn:t have anything to do with one another. I believe Conte had something he could offer up in the form of valid proof of a greater wrong-doing, and that he was made an example (prison) while still being a valuable source (hence the nature of his prison stay and short-term sentence).


see above

conte is supposedly part of the evidence

his evidence whacked kelli/tim immediately

3y down the line, it's got nowhere with marion

No connection between Graham and any of his 11-12 positives? eldrick, you:re no ostrich... you can:t stand tall and keep your head that far in the sand. Or, are you sinking to a new low? You:re above that, sir.


offer me concrete, not circumstantial

And, yes, as far as Catlin:s lab is concerned, there is breaking news you should read. My theory looks even more logical now than when I simply thought aloud yesterday.


what ?

stuff like 170 steps involved, each being crucial to a correct result ?!

difficulty in interpreting borderline cases ?!

& catlin claimed despite all this , he never got an epo test wrong !!!
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Postby EPelle » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:09 am

eldrick, prove - since you enjoy concrete evidence - to me any one, single CAS case where the steps and procedures employed by the UCLA centre have directly or indirectly violated a stated step, maneuver, process, measurement, method or policy by which it is required to stringently follow. When you come up with this proof, I will allow for Catlin:s team:s fallibility.

Regarding Conte: have you never considered there may be more complexities behind the scenes which we just do not see? The time involved is insignificant, as bringing down the BALCO-connected folks still outside of the federal grip can take a complex network of associates giving in to the greater good of the process - rather than holding on to their own simple historical achievements made under falsehoods...perhaps the long wait is to continue getting support to bench a person like Barry Bonds instead of some of the smaller fish who died before they were netted out of the water.

Kelli White spoke, and no one believes. CJ Hunter spoke, and he:s now a liar - the same truth-teller Marion Jones wanted us to believe in 2000. Tim Montgomery spoke, and he, too, is a bastard child, a liar and a fool, no?
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Postby eldrick » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:24 am

EPelle wrote:eldrick, prove - since you enjoy concrete evidence - to me any one, single CAS case where the steps and procedures employed by the UCLA centre have directly or indirectly violated a stated step, maneuver, process, measurement, method or policy by which it is required to stringently follow. When you come up with this proof, I will allow for Catlin:s team:s fallibility.


eh ???

sum total of ALL steps/procedures/measurements/etc is the final test result

one was wrong, so steps/procedures/measurements/etc involved in it had error

that's CONCRETE !

Regarding Conte: have you never considered there may be more complexities behind the scenes which we just do not see? The time involved is insignificant


nonsense

how long ?

1000y ???



as bringing down the BALCO-connected folks still outside of the federal grip can take a complex network of associates giving in to the greater good of the process - rather than holding on to their own simple historical achievements made under falsehoods...perhaps the long wait is to continue getting support to bench a person like Barry Bonds instead of some of the smaller fish who died before they were netted out of the water.


nonsense

usatf/iaaf are only interested in marion, NOT bonds

they want the case concluded against "their" athlete - just like the feds gave them evidence to nail tim/kelli

any semi-intelligent person can conclude that after 3y of investigation, feds have nothing on marion

mlb can make their own arrangements with the feds for evidence against bonds

Kelli White spoke, and no one believes. CJ Hunter spoke, and he:s now a liar - the same truth-teller Marion Jones wanted us to believe in 2000. Tim Montgomery spoke, and he, too, is a bastard child, a liar and a fool, no?


you're ranting

thiat is not an argument
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Postby EPelle » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:43 am

Catlin claimed to have not had a positive test turn up negative. What is hard to understand about that? Review every large newspaper:s account of this testing, and you:ll see a pattern: It is VERY RARE that a "B" sample negates the findings provided by the "A" sample. How rare, one asks?

Let:s see: Hmmm... a total of a handful times according to Arne Ljungqvist, who:s been in the business some 30-odd years. Wow, not enough? Only one athlete in the history (six years) of testing for this drug, EPO, has been falsely accused in this sport. We know why. Demonstrate to me through any documented proof that the methods employed in Los Angeles were the same as those in Germany, or that the staff in Los Angeles has been discredited in CAS cases due to incompetency.

Catlin:s claim was valid.

I:m ignoring the Marion Jones road with you on purpose - not for reasons of not having anything to offer you. Let Gatlin offer information on Trevor Graham and have his sentence reduced.

If Gatlin decides to turn over any pertinent information linking himself to Trevor Graham or Victor Conte, then that ensures by default what Victor Conte stated on a written, unsent record to the US drugs authorities - namely that he had provided Gatlin testosterone drugs - is true and accurate.

You want to discredit the test due to a discrepancy in the tests? Then discredit your line of thinking if Conte is linked to Gatlin.

What then will that do to open your eyes to the possibility that what others have stated - without taped wire-tap confessions - may be true? Nothing.

There is a tremendous amount of time involved in reconstructing the past, eldrick, and neither you nor I know what is in the vault for later use. Why are the feds waiting? They:re going to connect the dots and demonstrate that they have reasons to keep their jobs by taking down all key figures in this BALCO mess in one fell swoop.
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Postby eldrick » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:29 am

EPelle wrote:Catlin claimed to have not had a positive test turn up negative.


err...

now we have marion's case : +ve test turn up -ve

is this not getting thru to you ?

What is hard to understand about that? Review every large newspaper:s account of this testing, and you:ll see a pattern: It is VERY RARE that a "B" sample negates the findings provided by the "A" sample. How rare, one asks?

Let:s see: Hmmm... a total of a handful times according to Arne Ljungqvist, who:s been in the business some 30-odd years. Wow, not enough? Only one athlete in the history (six years) of testing for this drug, EPO, has been falsely accused in this sport. We know why. Demonstrate to me through any documented proof that the methods employed in Los Angeles were the same as those in Germany, or that the staff in Los Angeles has been discredited in CAS cases due to incompetency.


i'm not interested in a erman lab

i'm interested in catlin's lab

he screwed up

Catlin:s claim was valid.


nonsense

it obviously seems marion's case has gone thru one ear & out the other without registering on you

I:m ignoring the Marion Jones road with you on purpose - not for reasons of not having anything to offer you. Let Gatlin offer information on Trevor Graham and have his sentence reduced.


gatlin was still in college when marion left trevor

you expect me to wait with bated breathe on 3y ole 2nd hand testimony ???

If Gatlin decides to turn over any pertinent information linking himself to Trevor Graham or Victor Conte, then that ensures by default what Victor Conte stated on a written, unsent record to the US drugs authorities - namely that he had provided Gatlin testosterone drugs - is true and accurate.


3y ole 2nd hand testimony

You want to discredit the test due to a discrepancy in the tests? Then discredit your line of thinking if Conte is linked to Gatlin.


now you're getting desperate

that's a gigantic if

What then will that do to open your eyes to the possibility that what others have stated - without taped wire-tap confessions - may be true? Nothing.


bring in your hearsay into court, without anything irrefutable & see how many minutes it takes a high-powered lawyer to tear it to shreds

There is a tremendous amount of time involved in reconstructing the past, eldrick, and neither you nor I know what is in the vault for later use. Why are the feds waiting? They:re going to connect the dots and demonstrate that they have reasons to keep their jobs by taking down all key figures in this BALCO mess in one fell swoop.


nonsense

it took them a few weeks to nail tim/kelli

please explain why they didn't take marion down then ???

i'm waiting...
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Postby EPelle » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:32 am

eldrick, you:re excellent at picking apart what others write, but I don:t see substance in what you are refuting.

What is not getting through to you is that Gatlin turned up at Graham:s door against the advice of Gatln:s agent. Period. If there is a connection, what shall you say, then? Or do you simply overlook that fact that Justin Gatlin:s name was on a document prepared by Victor Conte, and on its way to an authority? For the same substance for which he has tested positive?

Marion Jones is stated as having been a recipient and user of EPO - by three people who know her personally, not professionally or casually. She has a scare with a test for the same drug.

Coincidence? Come on, man.
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Postby eldrick » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:04 am

EPelle wrote:What is not getting through to you is that Gatlin turned up at Graham:s door against the advice of Gatln:s agent. Period. If there is a connection, what shall you say, then? Or do you simply overlook that fact that Justin Gatlin:s name was on a document prepared by Victor Conte, and on its way to an authority?


from the convict who claims to have supplied drugs to everyone from jesse owens to the friendly neighbourhood racoon...

For the same substance for which he has tested positive?


which can also be ordered by anyone with 30 bucks & an internet connection

Marion Jones is stated as having been a recipient and user of EPO - by three people who know her personally, not professionally or casually. She has a scare with a test for the same drug


who are these 3 ???
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Postby EPelle » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:08 am

Wow, eldrick... the oxygen must be thinning as you approach 6.000m of altitude here. Breathe in, breathe out. But you already know that.
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