Sun Yingjie fails doping test


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Postby EPelle » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:09 pm

But Kobayashi llives thousands of miles from MJD, so he won:t be able to throw the first stone...lob the first pitch.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:13 pm

marknhj wrote:You disgust me.
>>>

Seems a bit harsh...BTW - Bauman went as far as actually juicing his wife in his pathetic attempt to get off.


hey kob. calling someone a racist is a horrible, evil charge. your willing to believe she's innocent with very little real evidence of any kind. which is fine. but at the same time your willing to label people here as racist without a shred of evidence except they disagree with you!!

p.s. you dont disgust ME. but i DO think you might want to reconsider the racist charge unless you have real proof.
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:17 pm

squackee,

Great reply to the 'racist' charge !!
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Postby gh » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:32 pm

mump boy wrote:
gh wrote:Important to note that the IAAF suspended Naroz. anyway, despite her ex-husband's "confession."



and then they re-instated her under the unusual circumsatances rule


I could be wrong, but believe they had no choice because a Soviet court ruled that the 4-year ban was excessive.
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Postby mojo » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:45 pm

Daisy wrote:
kuha wrote:"You're not a witch? Well, prove it!"

Are you suggesting that we have MJD go through 'trial by ordeal'?



Why not have him do one of Geb's workouts BEFORE we dunk him????
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Postby EPelle » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:49 pm

Mojo, that would be too easy for MJD.
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Postby kuha » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:18 pm

I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!
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Postby tafnut » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:26 pm

kuha wrote:I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!


When MJD comes back from a workout, he's not spitting blood, he's spitting FIRE! :o

P.S. I bet if we tried, we could do a whole thread about MJD's workouts, like they have about Jason Rexing over at letsrun!
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:43 pm

tafnut wrote:
kuha wrote:I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!


When MJD comes back from a workout, he's not spitting blood, he's spitting FIRE! :o

P.S. I bet if we tried, we could do a whole thread about MJD's workouts, like they have about Jason Rexing over at letsrun!


well... i hear tell some climbers saw him a doin repeat hill sprints up mt. everest. blood coming out of his ears and fire outta his ass. i suspect this is an exaggeration.
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Postby Daisy » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:48 pm

SQUACKEE wrote: i suspect this is an exaggeration.

Lies?
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:59 pm

Daisy wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote: i suspect this is an exaggeration.

Lies?


just the fire part. he is a lot of things but he's no dragon butt.
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Postby 26mi235 » Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:06 pm

tafnut wrote:
kuha wrote:I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!


When MJD comes back from a workout, he's not spitting blood, he's spitting FIRE! :o

P.S. I bet if we tried, we could do a whole thread about MJD's workouts, like they have about Jason Rexing over at letsrun!


But I understand that he has a big problem developing that might knock him out of competition. I think that I heard that his bike shoes were too tight and he has sore metatarsals..... :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :shock: :shock: :wink:
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Sprinkle, sprinkle Little Star

Postby EPelle » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:09 am

Reuters wrote:Yu admitted to the court in northeast Heilongjiang province that he had sprinkled the substance in Sun's drink, but said he had only done so with good intentions and had no idea the drug was banned, the newspaper reported.

"I just wanted to help Sun Yingjie because she is my idol," Xinhua news agency quoted Yu as telling the court. Story Here

Sorry, just don:t buy this.
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Re: Sprinkle, sprinkle Little Star

Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:21 am

EPelle wrote:
Reuters wrote:Yu admitted to the court in northeast Heilongjiang province that he had sprinkled the substance in Sun's drink, but said he had only done so with good intentions and had no idea the drug was banned, the newspaper reported.

"I just wanted to help Sun Yingjie because she is my idol," Xinhua news agency quoted Yu as telling the court. Story Here

Sorry, just don:t buy this.

This also does not match with 'the stranger giving her a drink' story that was circulating in October. No idea the drug was banned? i thought he was an athlete too? This is not some groupie we are talking about here.
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Re: Sprinkle, sprinkle Little Star

Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:52 am

Daisy wrote:
EPelle wrote:
Reuters wrote:Yu admitted to the court in northeast Heilongjiang province that he had sprinkled the substance in Sun's drink, but said he had only done so with good intentions and had no idea the drug was banned, the newspaper reported.

"I just wanted to help Sun Yingjie because she is my idol," Xinhua news agency quoted Yu as telling the court. Story Here

Sorry, just don:t buy this.

This also does not match with 'the stranger giving her a drink' story that was circulating in October. No idea the drug was banned? i thought he was an athlete too? This is not some groupie we are talking about here.


wow! now i believe her! i cant tell how many times my fans have given my illegal drugs in drinks that i routinely and gladly except from strangers. one day its LSD, the next crystal myth. the worst one was some dude came up to me and offered me a chocolate shake. wouldnt you know it, yes, liquid heroin. before i knew it i was stealing car stereo's to support my habit.

and the funny part was, that each person who gave me the drugs thought they were legal. WELL, GO FIGUIRE!

im not stupid. i learned my lesson. of course i still except drinks from total strangers but not before asking this, " hey thanx stranger! but before i drink this, did you put anything in here that might be illegal and will ruin my reputation and maybe my life?"

you'd be surprised who well this works. they almost always say something like," oh...ahh.... i did put a little LSD in but i thought you could use a trip.......dude. plus its not illegal.........dude.

i appologize to sun and kob.
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Postby Andrea_T » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:53 am

Right....
I think we should wait and see what the IAAF rule on this one. A Chinese court has cleared Sun, thus we have to assume it has seen enough evidence to do so. Stating it is a cover up, or that she is lying, or it is a conspiracy, is not quite the racism Kobayashi is claiming, but it's very close. Would we be saying the same if it were an English court , or an American one?

On the other hand.....
Let's get real for a moment, there is a general distrust of Chinese long distance performances since Ma Junren's athletes destroyed the WR's. This has lead to a cynicism towards Chinese performances, no doubt about it, and you cannot blame people for being a little suspicious. Now Sun comes out and runs a great 10k a day after a great marathon. She then fails a drug test. People cant be blamed for thinking she's a cheat (!)

BUT....
we have to accept the ruling of the Chinese court for now, and we have to accept she is innoncent of any wrong doing. Anything else is a judgement on the Chinese legal system, and I dont believe anyone on thess forum is in a positrion to do that.

Personally...
I put my hands up, I have a slight distrust of some Chinese performances. I was always a fan of Sun though, she has run internationally, set fast times outside of China and I love the way she takes her competitors on. Her positive test disappointed me. However, I have a distrust of American sprinters too: Gaines, Edwards, White, Miller , Jones.... the USA's top female sprinters for the last 8 years have either failed tests or been implicated in scandals, can I be blamed for taking US performances with a pinch of salt too? No... and yes.

We should....
Look at each case on an individual basis I guess. Don't pre-judge based on nationality. It is hard though.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:15 am

we have to accept the ruling of the Chinese court

no i dont. i know oj is guilty also. but then again i AM a racist.
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Postby kuha » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:41 am

"Let's get real for a moment, there is a general distrust of Chinese long distance performances since Ma Junren's athletes destroyed the WR's. This has lead to a cynicism towards Chinese performances, no doubt about it..."

Actually, for me, it's pretty much ONLY the 1993 performances that stink to high heaven (with a slightly lesser odor from '97). The '93 marks are--in every conceivable way--unbelievable. Since that set of absurd anomalies, however, there's little to suggest that the Chinese are any "dirtier" than most other groups of athletes. Heck, their men are so lousy that they MUST be clean, right? (And, again, the '93 marks may NOT be explainable by "drugs.")

Finally, to pummel this dead horse unmercifully, it's NOT a matter of racism or prejudice. If the athletes of ANY nation (from Albania to Zambia) had collectively done what the Chinese women did in a week in late 1993, we'd laugh with disbelief.
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:42 am

Andrea_T wrote:Would we be saying the same if it were an English court , or an American one?


Maybe.
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:43 am

Andrea_T wrote:Anything else is a judgement on the Chinese legal system, and I dont believe anyone on thess forum is in a positrion to do that.


Wny not?
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:21 am

Andrea_T,

Please, get out of bed this morning, call up Kobayashi, arrange to meet at the local Peet's or Starbucks, and get a real good whiff of the coffee . . .
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Postby Andrea_T » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:38 am

MJD wrote:
Andrea_T wrote:Anything else is a judgement on the Chinese legal system, and I dont believe anyone on thess forum is in a positrion to do that.


Wny not?


Tell me then, what do you know of the Chinese judicial system?
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Postby Andrea_T » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:47 am

kuha wrote:Actually, for me, it's pretty much ONLY the 1993 performances that stink to high heaven (with a slightly lesser odor from '97).


Only 'slightly less odo(u)r' from 97? Jiang Bo et al's performances were up there too IMO...and let's not forget 10.79.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:00 am

Andrea_T wrote:
MJD wrote:
Andrea_T wrote:Anything else is a judgement on the Chinese legal system, and I dont believe anyone on thess forum is in a positrion to do that.


Wny not?


Tell me then, what do you know of the Chinese judicial system?


nothin, absolutley nothin. but when a story is unbelieveable i reserve the right to ..........drum roll...... not believe it. it maybe true but it is one of the lamest excuses ive ever heard in my life.

so in the future, if you can get someone to admit they spiked your drink, anybody can take anything and get away with it! WOW!
Last edited by SQUACKEE on Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Andrea_T » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:00 am

bad hammy wrote:Andrea_T,

Please, get out of bed this morning, call up Kobayashi, arrange to meet at the local Peet's or Starbucks, and get a real good whiff of the coffee . . .


I'm afraid I don't have a local 'Peet's', and I'm very much a tea drinker, I dont do that bastardized latte nonsense.

In all seriousness, I think my first post is quite appropriate: A Chinese court has ruled she is innocent, it's now down to whether the Chinese federation and IAAF accept this. A lot of people are suspicious of 'the Chinese' performances, but each case should be viewed on it's individual merits. What's so freaky about that Porkie?
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Postby Andrea_T » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:04 am

SQUACKEE wrote: it maybe true but it is one of the lamest excuses ive ever heard in my life.


Lame excuses tend not to be believed in courts of law, but I guess China is different... :roll:
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Postby tafnut » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:08 am

Given the current state of the sport why WOULDN'T we be skeptical? It has nothing to do with China or the Chinese legal system (ours let OJ go free). Our reactions would be the same if this were an American, a Canadian, or even a Greek :wink: .
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:09 am

Andrea_T wrote:In all seriousness, I think my first post is quite appropriate: A Chinese court has ruled she is innocent, it's now down to whether the Chinese federation and IAAF accept this. A lot of people are suspicious of 'the Chinese' performances, but each case should be viewed on it's individual merits. What's so freaky about that Porkie?

Here I have held back for the past few days from referring to Kobayashi's hot dog eating exploits, and what do I get? A reference to my weight! I resemble that comment!!

And as I stated earlier, at this point I consider Sun to be busted until the IAAF/WADA/CAS folks say otherwise.
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:17 am

Andrea_T wrote:
MJD wrote:
Andrea_T wrote:Anything else is a judgement on the Chinese legal system, and I dont believe anyone on thess forum is in a positrion to do that.


Wny not?


Tell me then, what do you know of the Chinese judicial system?



Are you serious? They put a ridiculous number of people to death(that we know of). That's enough for starters.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:21 am

MJD wrote:Are you serious? They put a ridiculous number of people to death(that we know of). That's enough for starters.

Not that I don't agree with your overall argument, but we put more than a few people to death here in the US, too. And we let OJ continue to search the golf courses of the world for the real killer(s).
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:35 am

I'm not USAnian and the US has its own problems with ridiculous excuses. Many of the death penalty cases are not reported which goes to the point. There is the difference.
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Postby mojo » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:38 am

China's human rights record is appallling and no I do not trust their legal system and neither does the average Chinese citizen. Read any report on China by Amnesty International.
Just this past week Chinese soliders shot at least three people dead (The people of the town say it is more like 20) beacuse they were protesting losing their farm land to a hydro project. The town is now completely cut off from the rest of China.

You can read AI's 2005 report on China here.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/chn-summary-eng
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Postby marknhj » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:10 am

Martin and mojo are spot on; China has an appalling human rights record. The death penalty is regularly imposed for non-violent crimes such as theft, forgery and embezzelmet; defendents have limited access to attornies and limited time to prepare for the trial. Verdicts are often come to before the actual trial and the defendent usually gets a bullet in the back of the head a day or two later.

No, I have zero faith in the chinese legal system.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:12 am

China Daily wrote:Yu was ordered to make a public apology in national newspapers to Sun, and pay spiritual compensation of 30,000 yuan (US$3,750).

What if Sun was atheist?

China Daily wrote:"Turning down water passed from strangers or keeping away from water that has already been opened is basic knowledge for athletes," said Shen.quote]

Maybe she should have blamed it on "dirty" water provided by a well-wisher under the marathon race.

Either way, she is no longer home free. Story on front page, link here.
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Postby MJD » Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am

For the rose coloured glasses crowd:

"China's legal system often hands down verdicts that the powerless consider unfair. But a bigger problem is that courts often refuse to issue any verdict at all - or even acknowledge that some bothersome legal complaints exist."


http://tinyurl.com/a42f4
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Postby tandfman » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:06 am

MJD wrote:I'm not USAnian and the US has its own problems with ridiculous excuses.

I think you have your tense wrong, MJD. I have the impression that since USADA took over the administration of the USA's doping program five years ago, the US has not had a problem. To be sure, individual athletes have offered ridiculous excuses (narcolepsy comes to mind as an obvious example). But the adjudication mechanisms now in place both domestically and internationally are designed assure that those excuses will not be accepted.

I guess that's another way of saying that the US "problem" was never that US athletes were more prone to making ridiculous excuses than those of any other country. The problem was that those excuses were sometimes accepted, at least domestically. I don't see any evidence that this has been a problem in recent years. So I think "had" would have been a better word choice than "has."
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Postby MJD » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:54 am

I'm merely responding to the ridiculous assertion that I am some kind of racist because I don't buy this Chinese athlete's excuse. I'll jump all over anyone who stretches credulility-the Greeks, USAnians, Canucks, etc. The poster assumed that I was USAnian and that is why I referred to the US.
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Postby MJD » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:54 am

More for the rose coloured glasses crowd:

"But it has now become a glaring uncertainty about China's commitment to the rule of law. There is widespread suspicion, even within the government, that too many innocent people are sentenced to death. This year, a raft of cases came to light in which wrongful convictions had led to death sentences, or, in one well-publicized case, the execution of an innocent man."

http://tinyurl.com/d6o2m
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Postby piaba » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:16 pm

MJD wrote:More for the rose coloured glasses crowd:

"But it has now become a glaring uncertainty about China's commitment to the rule of law. There is widespread suspicion, even within the government, that too many innocent people are sentenced to death. This year, a raft of cases came to light in which wrongful convictions had led to death sentences, or, in one well-publicized case, the execution of an innocent man."

http://tinyurl.com/d6o2m


what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

and you mean, no innocent person has ever been put to death in the US???
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Postby Daisy » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:29 pm

piaba wrote:
MJD wrote:This year, a raft of cases came to light in which wrongful convictions had led to death sentences, or, in one well-publicized case, the execution of an innocent man."

what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

You missed the point. MJD was accussed of being a racist for doubting that the court decision was legitimate. His post is just confirming that his opinion was based on well known facts about the chinese legal system.

Are you also implying he is a racist?
piaba wrote:and you mean, no innocent person has ever been put to death in the US???

Why is the quality of the US system relevent to his point? Maybe if you ask him he'll be equally critical of the U.S. legal system.
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