Kobayashi wrote:So, I ask again - what reason does anyone have to doubt this story?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do ... 487733.htm QUOTE from October
"That was my third consecutive title at the Beijing Marathon Championship. I was so excited that I took this excitement to Nanjing" Sun said in an interview with Sports Daily. "My alert level was lower. That is lethal to athletes of my kind," she said, explaining why she took water from an unknown stranger.
Sun's coach had explained that the scandal happened because Sun received a bottle of water from a stranger two hours before the 10,000-meter race during warm-ups.
END QUOTE
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do ... 504321.htm QUOTE from the Dec article posted above
Yu Haijiang, who used to train with Sun together, confessed that he added banned steroid to Sun's drink on December 16, one day before the women's 10,000-meter race at the National Games.
END QUOTE
So why did she get a drink from a stranger? From the later article it sounded as if Yu spiked HER drink? Of course with out the transcripts one doesn't know the exact story but it sounds a lot like someone spiked my toothpaste. Or I had beer and sex before the test.
marknhj wrote:Racism? You would have got the same LOL response had it been an athlete from Britain, Ireland, USA or anywhere else caught. The excuses these drug cheats come up with are hilarious. And do we have reason to believe China has a bit of history in the juicing arena? Duh...
I give up. You are no different to the people who drove the falsely accused rapist I mentioned out of town. To you, Sun Yingie is Chinese and as such not worthy your trust. You disgust me.
Kobayashi wrote:This is *not* a normal case, it's a case of an athlete *proving* that they have been falsely accused. To disbelieve this one muct argue that the person who 'fessed up and the authorities are in on the conspiracy. What possible reason is there to believe this?
Now I understand. You are saying we think the guy that fessed up to spiking her drink is lying. As a matter of fact I do think it is convenient that one of her former training partners fessed up. do we know they had split on bad terms and they had a grudge? No that is what they want us to think. So yes I am cynical about this story. Yes I think he may lie to protect the star athlete from that training group.
Same with the Greek duo. I think the doctors in the hospital were in on the scam. Does that make me a racist against Greeks too? In this world people lie ALL the time. It is not racist to think someone might be lying.
Just out of interest do you know have more information about this case? You seem very sure that she is innocent and to be honest there is not that much information on her case in the two links above.
Last edited by Daisy on Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kobayashi wrote:To you, Sun Yingie is Chinese and as such not worthy your trust. You disgust me.
To me, Sun Yingie is a busted drug cheat and as such not worthy of my trust. Her being Chinese has zip to do with it. I'll wait until the IAAF/WADA/CAS folks buy off on this story before I trust her again, fair enough?
Wow. Go for a run and all hell breaks loose. Of course I don't think that all Chinese are liars but do I think that the billion or so that live there are ruled by a government that isn't exactly open. Liars by omission so to speak. Why don't they have open access to the internet, for starters. They have already proven what they will do with the truth so throw a ridiculous story out there that I wouldn't buy coming from ANYONE like this one and, no, I don't believe it. I can't believe that I have to spell it out. The rest of you have all veered off topic, IMHO.
I can assure you that there is zero racism going on here. After 9000 posts (MJD) one's belief system is pretty evident, and I've probably read over 8000 of them . That's not him, nor anyone else posting here. I would love to believe Sun, but we've simply had too many Guilties with total denial. Of course she can not PROVE her innocence, no more that Marion Jones can (whom I STILL believe in). I'm glad YOU believe in Sun, but it really should not surprise you that others don't. I'm such a Pollyanna, I choose to reserve judgement (for which I am always ridiculed! ). Don't take this stuff so personally.
I say this cautiously and carefully, and with all due respect. The "r" word is used altogether too often these days. It DOES describe certain real attitudes or opinions, but it does not describe ALL attitudes and opinions that we may disagree with. When someone is accused of being a racist, I'm reminded of 17th century New England and the women accused of being witches. "You're not a witch? Well, prove it!"
Kobayashi wrote:...This is different. She has PROVEN that she did not knowingly take in drugs. She isn't just claiming it, she's produced proof and convinced the authorities....We have nothing but the linked report to go on.
If we have "nothing but the linked report to go on", how does this PROVE anything - guilt or not?
Are you suggesting that we have MJD go through 'trial by ordeal'?
Dunk him, dunk him, dunk him! If we put him in the basket and dunk him for 2 or 3 minutes and he doesn't drown, he's INNOCENT. But if he does drown, well then, he just got what he deserved, huh?!
Are you suggesting that we have MJD go through 'trial by ordeal'?
Dunk him, dunk him, dunk him! If we put him in the basket and dunk him for 2 or 3 minutes and he doesn't drown, he's INNOCENT. But if he does drown, well then, he just got what he deserved, huh?!
You got that all mixed up tafnut. If he doesn't drown he is GUILTY. If he drowns he must have been innocent.
Are you suggesting that we have MJD go through 'trial by ordeal'?
Dunk him, dunk him, dunk him! If we put him in the basket and dunk him for 2 or 3 minutes and he doesn't drown, he's INNOCENT. But if he does drown, well then, he just got what he deserved, huh?!
You got that all mixed up tafnut. If he doesn't drown he is GUILTY. If he drowns he must have been innocent.[/quote
i am all for dunking. i always root for the angry mob carring torches rather then the frightened monster. BUT we can not dunk MJD! why you ask? cause where he dwells everything is bloody frozen solid!!
Seems a bit harsh...BTW - Bauman went as far as actually juicing his wife in his pathetic attempt to get off.
hey kob. calling someone a racist is a horrible, evil charge. your willing to believe she's innocent with very little real evidence of any kind. which is fine. but at the same time your willing to label people here as racist without a shred of evidence except they disagree with you!!
p.s. you dont disgust ME. but i DO think you might want to reconsider the racist charge unless you have real proof.
I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!
kuha wrote:I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!
When MJD comes back from a workout, he's not spitting blood, he's spitting FIRE!
P.S. I bet if we tried, we could do a whole thread about MJD's workouts, like they have about Jason Rexing over at letsrun!
kuha wrote:I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!
When MJD comes back from a workout, he's not spitting blood, he's spitting FIRE!
P.S. I bet if we tried, we could do a whole thread about MJD's workouts, like they have about Jason Rexing over at letsrun!
well... i hear tell some climbers saw him a doin repeat hill sprints up mt. everest. blood coming out of his ears and fire outta his ass. i suspect this is an exaggeration.
kuha wrote:I've heard from a very reliable source that MJD had Geb in tears after one workout...something like 33 miles at 4:25 pace, followed by repeat miles on the track in 4:02, 4:00, 3:58, and 3:55...all, of course, at 11,000 ft. altitude. Whew!
When MJD comes back from a workout, he's not spitting blood, he's spitting FIRE!
P.S. I bet if we tried, we could do a whole thread about MJD's workouts, like they have about Jason Rexing over at letsrun!
But I understand that he has a big problem developing that might knock him out of competition. I think that I heard that his bike shoes were too tight and he has sore metatarsals.....
Reuters wrote:Yu admitted to the court in northeast Heilongjiang province that he had sprinkled the substance in Sun's drink, but said he had only done so with good intentions and had no idea the drug was banned, the newspaper reported.
"I just wanted to help Sun Yingjie because she is my idol," Xinhua news agency quoted Yu as telling the court. Story Here
Reuters wrote:Yu admitted to the court in northeast Heilongjiang province that he had sprinkled the substance in Sun's drink, but said he had only done so with good intentions and had no idea the drug was banned, the newspaper reported.
"I just wanted to help Sun Yingjie because she is my idol," Xinhua news agency quoted Yu as telling the court. Story Here
Sorry, just don:t buy this.
This also does not match with 'the stranger giving her a drink' story that was circulating in October. No idea the drug was banned? i thought he was an athlete too? This is not some groupie we are talking about here.
Reuters wrote:Yu admitted to the court in northeast Heilongjiang province that he had sprinkled the substance in Sun's drink, but said he had only done so with good intentions and had no idea the drug was banned, the newspaper reported.
"I just wanted to help Sun Yingjie because she is my idol," Xinhua news agency quoted Yu as telling the court. Story Here
Sorry, just don:t buy this.
This also does not match with 'the stranger giving her a drink' story that was circulating in October. No idea the drug was banned? i thought he was an athlete too? This is not some groupie we are talking about here.
wow! now i believe her! i cant tell how many times my fans have given my illegal drugs in drinks that i routinely and gladly except from strangers. one day its LSD, the next crystal myth. the worst one was some dude came up to me and offered me a chocolate shake. wouldnt you know it, yes, liquid heroin. before i knew it i was stealing car stereo's to support my habit.
and the funny part was, that each person who gave me the drugs thought they were legal. WELL, GO FIGUIRE!
im not stupid. i learned my lesson. of course i still except drinks from total strangers but not before asking this, " hey thanx stranger! but before i drink this, did you put anything in here that might be illegal and will ruin my reputation and maybe my life?"
you'd be surprised who well this works. they almost always say something like," oh...ahh.... i did put a little LSD in but i thought you could use a trip.......dude. plus its not illegal.........dude.
Right....
I think we should wait and see what the IAAF rule on this one. A Chinese court has cleared Sun, thus we have to assume it has seen enough evidence to do so. Stating it is a cover up, or that she is lying, or it is a conspiracy, is not quite the racism Kobayashi is claiming, but it's very close. Would we be saying the same if it were an English court , or an American one?
On the other hand.....
Let's get real for a moment, there is a general distrust of Chinese long distance performances since Ma Junren's athletes destroyed the WR's. This has lead to a cynicism towards Chinese performances, no doubt about it, and you cannot blame people for being a little suspicious. Now Sun comes out and runs a great 10k a day after a great marathon. She then fails a drug test. People cant be blamed for thinking she's a cheat (!)
BUT....
we have to accept the ruling of the Chinese court for now, and we have to accept she is innoncent of any wrong doing. Anything else is a judgement on the Chinese legal system, and I dont believe anyone on thess forum is in a positrion to do that.
Personally...
I put my hands up, I have a slight distrust of some Chinese performances. I was always a fan of Sun though, she has run internationally, set fast times outside of China and I love the way she takes her competitors on. Her positive test disappointed me. However, I have a distrust of American sprinters too: Gaines, Edwards, White, Miller , Jones.... the USA's top female sprinters for the last 8 years have either failed tests or been implicated in scandals, can I be blamed for taking US performances with a pinch of salt too? No... and yes.
We should....
Look at each case on an individual basis I guess. Don't pre-judge based on nationality. It is hard though.
"Let's get real for a moment, there is a general distrust of Chinese long distance performances since Ma Junren's athletes destroyed the WR's. This has lead to a cynicism towards Chinese performances, no doubt about it..."
Actually, for me, it's pretty much ONLY the 1993 performances that stink to high heaven (with a slightly lesser odor from '97). The '93 marks are--in every conceivable way--unbelievable. Since that set of absurd anomalies, however, there's little to suggest that the Chinese are any "dirtier" than most other groups of athletes. Heck, their men are so lousy that they MUST be clean, right? (And, again, the '93 marks may NOT be explainable by "drugs.")
Finally, to pummel this dead horse unmercifully, it's NOT a matter of racism or prejudice. If the athletes of ANY nation (from Albania to Zambia) had collectively done what the Chinese women did in a week in late 1993, we'd laugh with disbelief.
. That's not him, nor anyone else posting here. I would love to believe Sun, but we've simply had too many Guilties with total denial. Of course she can not PROVE her innocence, no more that Marion Jones can (whom I STILL believe in). I'm glad YOU believe in Sun, but it really should not surprise you that others don't. I'm such a Pollyanna, I choose to reserve judgement (for which I am always ridiculed! 
). Don't take this stuff so personally.
