throwers who lifted big weights

[weightlifter]

I am having a debate on a weightlifting forum (goheavy.com), deates, Olympic forum. I am interested in weights that are claimed, but better yet, witnessed, as far as cleans, power cleans, snatch, or power snatch, what the source of the information is, etc.
I am of the opinion that some top throwers have lifted pretty haevy weights in this area in training. I would appreciate any help in this area.
I would appreciate any replies. Thank you.

[Rufus Cookie]

Udo Beyer 10 singles on 660lb behind neck jerks, 672lb bench, 1/2 Squat 5x880

Manuel Martinez can do over 660lbs bench

week before 97 world champs Oliver-sven Buder BP 650lbs - ( his coach told me)

Andy Bloom 880lbs squat from bottom to top (bar was down squatted under and drove it to top)

Randy Barnes did incline bench reps on 550lbs, got video of him doing 2x208lbs power cleans, and 3x600lbs squats

ulf timmeramn 352lb snatch

Jason Tunks 440lbs hang clean - (he told me)

Joachim Olsen 6x550lbs squat

Robert Fazekas 407lb snatch 462lb clean

Jarred Rome Squat 700lbs power jerk 475lbs

Ian Waltz 780lb squat hang clean 428lbs

Jan Zelezny 264lbs pull over

Seppo Räty 473lbs front squat, 319lb pullover

[weightlifter]

In your post you say Barnes 2x208 lbs. power clean. I am guessing that you mean either 408 lbs. (about 185 kgs.) or 208 kgs. (about 458 lbs.). Can you clarify?
Thank you for your help.

[Rufus Cookie]

sorry its 308, but it looks so easy, not sure what his max lifts were though

[gh]

I don't have any numbers for you, but world-ranked U.S. putters Bruce Wilhelm and Sammy Walker comprised the Olympic team in '76 and world ranker Gary Gubner almost made the '64 team. And former WR holder Al Feuerbach won national lifting title in the early '70s. These guys should all have well documented real lifts, not just practice claims. Seem to recall that former national champ hammer thrower George Frenn was big in power lifting.

[Rufus Cookie]

Bruce Wilhelm - 400 lbs snatch and about 500 lbs clean and jerk

Sammy Walker -525 lbs Bench Press; 479 lbs Clean and Jerk 690 lbs Back Squat; 340 lbs Snatch; 590 lbs Front Squat and 507 lbs in Jerk from Rack

Al Feuerbach - won the 1974 US title with a total of 759lbs (341 snatch 418 C&J)

George Frenn - Squat 850lbs, first person to total over 2100lbs

Geoff Capes- pulled a 7ton truck 30m in 30.7 secs
pulled a 235 kg uphill for 12 m in 19.9 secs

Bev Francis - Squat 500lbs. Bench Press 335lbs. Deadlift 501lbs.

[Rufus Cookie]

Ken Patera- The First American to Clean and Jerk 500 pounds and also the only American to Press 500 pounds

Vasyl Virastruk- not sure of his lifts, but won 2004 world strong man contest so im guessign he is fairly strong

[oldtimer123]

Rufus, great info. What's your source for Beyer's bnj with 660. Here's a few more marks: Wilhelm C&J 485; Raty power clean 396, c&j 374, sn 308, bp 396, sq 624, dead lift 572, 4kg shot put 80'11. Sources: USA Thrower Aug. 95? and Strength & Speed (a book).

[Rufus Cookie]

its from a louis simmons (sp?) article i read a few years back

[cladthin]

Amazing numbers, many of which were discussed on the ring and other sites over the years. The only one I would truly question is the Andy Bloom 880lb. concentric squat. I think it is only believable if it were from a fairly high starting position and certainly not from a parallel start position. I seriously doubt anyone short of Paul Anderson or Shane Hamman could come close to that performance if done from parallel. It would be so extremely difficult to perform a heavy squat without a counter move or stretch reflex action immediately prior to standing up with it.

[Rufus Cookie]

Ramona Pagel - Bench Press 401lbs Incline Bench 341lbs Back Squat 550lbs X 5 Power Clean 297lbs
Split Snatch 215lbs Push Press 407lbs

Astrid Kumbernuss - 264lb snatch

Simon Stewart- squat - 635lbs front squat - 455lbs bench - 470lbs seated military press - 295lbsX3 deadlift - 660lbs snatch - 297lbs
clean - 407lbs

Christian Cantwell - clean: 396lbs k 5X (max over 484lbs) snatch: 374lbs bench 607lbs
incline bench: 484lbs

John Godina - Squat 792lbs
bench 638lbs ( he lowers the bar to his throat!!)
(official comp - bench 465 and squat 765)

Werner Gunthor- Power Clean: 550lbs Back Squat: 660lbs x 3 Bench Press: 528lbs x 5 Push Press: 528lbs x 3 Continuous Clean and Jerk: 374lbs x 5

Dallas Long - DBell military press 150lbs x5. close grip bench over 500lbs, dips with 200lbs.

Al Oerter - Bench 525lbs Squat 750lbs Curl 330lbs deadlift 700lbs flys 120lbs

[cladthin]

Unless it was listed and I missed it, Greg Tafralis(sp?) with a 520 clean in or soon before Barcelona.

[guru]

There's a really good joke up near the top of Rufus' list, but I ain't getting banned for two weeks for telling it.

[weightlifter]

Thanks to all for the info. I knew some of the lifts. I saw the lifts by Fuerbach, Walker, Wilhelm, and knew of the lifts by Gubner, Patera, and some of the others.
Any new information would be appreciated. Again, my thanks.

[sprinta]

Udo Beyer's behind the neck jerks for reps, exceeds the current world of the super heavy C and J by 80 lbs. Can someone explain this??

[det]

How do women throwers in the post East Germany era match up with the top women power lifters and Olympic lifters? I've heard that some of the European women throwers have had better max lifts than some lifting champs, but don't compete in the amateur sports where there is no prize money.....is this true?

[Rufus Cookie]

Udo made superman look like a pansy
also, what can the world record holder in the clean and jerk, do solely for jerks??

the east german women were beasts, super strong,
reports of them throwing 18-19m with the 16lb shot. will try and find some strength levels

[eldrick]

>Udo Beyer 10 singles on 660lb behind neck jerks, 672lb bench, 1/2 Squat
>5x880<

i have great difficulty in believing these

the WR for competition bench-press throughout the '80's & well into the '90's was 661 pounds by the legendary bill kazmaier ( who was pretty much regarded in his prime as the strongest homo sapien that ever stalked this planet ) - & at that prime, he weighed about 340 pounds with little fat on him

not even going to discuss beyer's jerks or squats !

[big mac]

Beyers lifts are not folklore, they are well documented. He did 1000lb for 4 sets of 6 in the half squat 2 days before he set his world record of 22.64?

He Behind the Neck jerked 300kg, for 10 singles from a squat rack. This is not unbelievable, there are many throwers and Olympic lifters that can do around 500lbs. You can BNJ about 20-30% more than you can from infront of the neck. So really for such an astronomically strong man (and we know he was that strong by seeing his shot form!) it is not impossible.

Best parallel squat is 450kg, or about double mine!

The most impressive statistic IMO is Ilona Slupianke in the squat, 330kg for 3 reps to parallel! Add to that a 200kg bench press and it is of little wonder she threw 18m with a 16lb shot and 21m standing (don't quote me on that bit) with the 5kg. Her form was horrible, a video of her is on the downloads page of macthrowvideo.com under 1980 olympics, she threw 22.43 or thereabouts, easily.

I have seen a video of Martinez bounce benching 280kg for 4 easy reps as well.

Bloom claims to (and has been witnessed) doing jump squats with 575lbs and says he can squat 1000lb to parallel without a suit.

Gunthors Powerclean of 250kg is also crazy, right now only Rezazadeh is capable of that.

If you do enough searching it is easy to find info on throwers strength levels.

Also look at throwers profiles at discusthrow.com/forum

[knockout]

The most impressive statistic IMO is Ilona
>Slupianke in the squat, 330kg for 3 reps to parallel! Add to that a 200kg bench
>press and it is of little wonder she threw 18m with a 16lb shot and 21m
>standing (don't quote me on that bit) with the 5kg. Her form was horrible, a
>video of her is on the downloads page of macthrowvideo.com under 1980 olympics,
>she threw 22.43 or thereabouts, easily.

Ilona was a monster, incredibly strong and muscular.... like you say her technique was terrible. little drive of the hips yet she puts it out to 22m.

[Pierre-Jean]

Gunthors Powerclean of 250kg is also crazy, right
>now only Rezazadeh is capable of that.



Crazy, because the right number is actually 200kg...
Becareful with all these stats, there are a lot of mind games...

[knockout]

Crazy, because the right number is actually
>200kg...
Becareful with all these stats, there are a lot of mind games...


as always

just found the following stats on Timmerman, make what you will of them. height 193cm, weight 119kg,

verticle 92cm, BP 250kg, squat 365kg, 220kg clean, 3m40 stading long jump.

from http://www.snelkracht.nl/index.php?article=8

[Pierre-Jean]

Don't know about Timmermann's numbers, but anyway Günthor's are pretty innacurate. Also, Ramona Pagel is listed in that male list, which shows that it was made by someone who knows little about throws.

[eldrick]

>The most impressive statistic IMO is Ilona
>Slupianke in the squat, 330kg for 3 reps to parallel! Add to that a 200kg bench
>press and it is of little wonder she threw 18m with a 16lb shot and 21m
>standing (don't quote me on that bit) with the 5kg. Her form was horrible, a
>video of her is on the downloads page of macthrowvideo.com under 1980 olympics,
>she threw 22.43 or thereabouts, easily.<

this sounds like a big fish story

18m with a 16 pound shot !!!

doing some rough physics calculations, a similar throw with a 4kg shot ( i believe competition wt. of women's shot put), using same technique as in the 18m,throw implies a throw well over 30m !!!

sounds like that 35 ft great white i hooked & landed, but had to throw back as it's a protected species !

[gh]

I hope everybody that this thread really strains the crdibility of this board as a place to come to get good, accuate, verifiable data. Not much passes the sniff test here. If the numbers being discussed were about track & field marks,you would have been laughed off the board ages ago. This is the poundage equivalent of football 40s.

[Rufus Cookie]

hey eldrick explain to me, , why i throw further with a 16lb shot then i do with a 7kg, and only 5 months ago threw further with a 6kg then i did with a 16lb. and i now throw nearly as far with a 7.5kg as i do with a 7kg, but they are all a metre less then with a 14lb

oh by the way my best throw with a 4kg is 17.99m, mind u i was 15, but i think i coudl only go about 23-24m with it, the weight is just to small and it hurts more then anything when i try throwing it.

my lifts are absolutely pathetic compared to top throwers,
bench 396lbs
half squat 572
full squat 418x2
snatch 253
clean 352
jerk 374
seated BNP 220


P.S in case u dont knwo what Ilona Slupianek looks like, http://www.atleticaleggera.com/immagini/slupia.jpg this pic may answer some questions

[Rufus Cookie]

>>Udo Beyer 10 singles on 660lb behind neck jerks, 672lb bench, 1/2
>Squat
>5x880<

i have great difficulty in believing these

the WR for
>competition bench-press throughout the '80's & well into the '90's was 661
>pounds by the legendary bill kazmaier ( who was pretty much regarded in his
>prime as the strongest homo sapien that ever stalked this planet ) - & at that
>prime, he weighed about 340 pounds with little fat on him

not even going to
>discuss beyer's jerks or squats !


competition rules dont count in training for shot put, so there is no pause on the chest, most shot putters do a balistic bounce off the chest using full hip drive, bounce pad etc etc

in 1981 Bill Kazmaier beat Geoff Capes by only 8 points to win the WSM contest, i think from 1977-2004 throwers have been in the top 3, 14 times there was no contest in 1987, so in my head i work that out to be 51 top threes up for grabs, so a bit over a quarter of all places have been throwers?

[Pego]

<reports of them throwing 18-19m with the 16lb shot.>

Nonsense.

[Rufus Cookie]

just some interesting info i found

"Here is interesting data from the 1975-76 Olympic Shotput & Discus camps. This is a small tidbit from it, but will give you the ballpark on how strong strong is when talking about elite throwers from a practical sense, not from "information from periodicals."

Here's how strong those elite US guys were-I will list the group sample size after each lift, the group average, and the range (min and maxes of the group in question):

First, The Shotputters, in lbs:

Benchpress:
N=15, 453.13 avg (400-520 range)

Squat:
N=16, 602.17 (480-750)

Power Clean:
N=15, 363.73 (320-410)

Incline Bench:
N=14, 390.64, (315-460)

Snatch:
N=12, 293.83 (235-375)

C&J:
N=11, 388.09 (310-440)

Push Press:
N=11, 374.45 (275-460)

D/L:
N=13, 618.46 (510-700)

And The Discus Throwers:

BP:
N=12, 411.28 (350-475)

SQ:
N=11, 536.54 (400-700)

PC:
N=11, 329.92 (230-410)

IBP:
N=8, 314.37 (260-335)

SN:
N=10, 246.00 (190-275 . . . Mac Wilkins is at 255, and he performed well in both camps, and obviously very well in the Olympics too . . . and had a helluva indoor shotput . . . maybe the 650 squat helped him out, no?)

C&J:
N=9, 309.50 (250-410)

PP:
N=8, 305.51 (220-450)

D/L:
N=10, 572.50 (430-675)

This is datat from real live US throwers of the past, to include Feuerbach, Woods, Wilkins, and many others who would be familiar to you from the 70's" from DAVE CASTER at http://www.snelkracht.nl/html/net-artic ... rum_2.html

[Rufus Cookie]

Bench Progression of Hartmut Briesenick
1969: 352lbs
1970: 418
1971: 474
1972: 518 (Olympic bronze)
1973: 529 ( PR of 21.67m)


some people probably wont say its a reliable source but Charlie Francis talks about watching Udo Beyer doing 880lbs squats in one of his books

also another not so reliable source, but Werner Rieterer talks about Stefan Fernholm jumping off a 1m high box, on to the floor onto a 70cm high box, all with a 120kg bar on his back and weighign 115kg himself

[det]

Fernholm had an amazing combination of strength, athleticism, and speed at a very early age. I believe he has one of the best shot/disc PR combos for a college athlete. After breaking his wrist several times he had to give up shot and concentrate on the discus. I think he could have been an amazing 70'+ spinner if he could have stayed with the event. Are there any left-handers with better PR's than Stefan had? Did he make the '84 Oly final in the dead wind of LA?

[det]

Fernholm had an amazing combination of strength, athleticism, and speed at a very early age. I believe he has one of the best shot/disc PR combos for a college athlete. After breaking his wrist several times he had to give up shot and concentrate on the discus. I think he could have been an amazing 70'+ spinner if he could have stayed with the event. Are there any left-handers with better PR's than Stefan had? Did he make the '84 Oly final in the dead wind of LA?

[det]

apologies for double post

[knockout]

>Bench Progression of Hartmut Briesenick
1969: 352lbs
1970: 418
1971: 474
>
1972: 518 (Olympic bronze)
1973: 529 ( PR of 21.67m)


he is the husband of ilona Slupianek of course....
their daughter is a decent junior discus thrower

[Andy Bloom]

My 1000lb concentric squat was from a position of 90 degree knee bend. I did this in 1999 around 8 weeks prior to my first 21m throw.

My best parallel squat is 700x2, but this was not in a comp and probably wouldn't have been accepted as comp legal.

I was told by Martinez that his best bench was 320k in 2002 but he told me he used a bounce pad.

Comparing throwers lifts to world records is a useless exercise. I never used strict form and couldn't have cared less whether or not my lift was legal.