Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.


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Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby lovetorun » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:13 pm

I was listening to a you tube video of Jim Ryun from early this year where he was at some kind of clinic sponsored by Mt. Sac and he was talking about some of the best races he ever ran in 1967 (or was it 1966?) which included the WR's 3:51.1 and 3:33.1 and he mentioned his last lap in the 1500m race in Germany was about "49 seconds". I think he must be off on his memory...anybody know what it really was?

I think it's the race that I remember he had a 38.6 final 300m...which is mighty fast but not even close to 50 let alone 49+.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby aaronk » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:34 pm

I believe it was in 1968, at the OT in Lake Tahoe's altitude.
His time for 1500 was just 3:49.0, but his last lap was reportedly 50.6!!

ADD: He may have run a last lap in the high-51, low 52 range in Europe, but I think that 50.6 was his fastest.
But back in the 60's, a last lap under 54 was considered pretty damn quick!
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby mump boy » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:33 am

I'm pretty sure José Luis González, ran sub 50 win beating Steve Cram at the European Cup in '87
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby James Fields » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:04 am

Does anyone viewing this thread know the last lap time, for Jack Lovelock (NZL) while winning 1936 Olympic 1500m at Berlin in then World Record time of 3:47.8.

Long ago I saw some 16mm film showing part of that last lap, notably down the backstretch where Lovelock raced away from Glenn Cunningham (USA) and Luigi Beccali (ITA).
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby bambam » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:16 am

James Fields wrote:Does anyone viewing this thread know the last lap time, for Jack Lovelock (NZL) while winning 1936 Olympic 1500m at Berlin in then World Record time of 3:47.8.

Long ago I saw some 16mm film showing part of that last lap, notably down the backstretch where Lovelock raced away from Glenn Cunningham (USA) and Luigi Beccali (ITA).


I don't have it. Best I have is an 800 split of 2:05.2.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby deanouk » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:01 am

aaronk wrote:ADD: He may have run a last lap in the high-51, low 52 range in Europe, but I think that 50.6 was his fastest.
But back in the 60's, a last lap under 54 was considered pretty damn quick!


I haven't seen video footage of the race, but a reliable source who does have a dvd copy of the race said that Ryun's last 400m during his 3:38 run in Germany (Dusseldorf) in 1967 was 50.6.

mump boy wrote:I'm pretty sure José Luis González, ran sub 50 win beating Steve Cram at the European Cup in '87


I think this is the fastest last lap of any "big" international race. It's hard to get an exact time for Gonzales, but video footage shows it to be 49.9/50.0 with Cram about a tenth or two behind.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:39 pm

lovetorun wrote:the 1500m race in Germany was about "49 seconds".


This has gotten quite a workout over the years.

It was the US vs. West Germany meet in Dusseldorf. Tummler took off with 400 to go and Ryun, after being impeded a bit by Norpoth, took chase; they were side-by-side with 300 to go and then Ryun absolutely buried the field. Reports say the crowd was essentially stunned into silence. It's not clear that any official splits are available, but Dick Bank reports that he got Ryun's last 400, 300, 200 in: 50.6, 36.4, and 24.8. The final time was a very solid 3:38.2. For a fast race, in the old cinder-track days, there just aren't many comparables.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby aaronk » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:38 pm

Just went through my copy of Cordner Nelson's great book "The Milers" (pub. 1985 by TAFNEWS).

Lovelock was timed at 42.4 for final 300 in '36 OG.
Nothing given for final 400, but 42.4 would be about 57 for full lap.

Ryun's OT in '68 was indeed 3:49.0, and last lap was 50.8, according to this book.
Also, last 880 was then-fastest-ever, 1:50.8!

As for the Dusseldorf race in '67, here's what Cordner Nelson wrote (verbatim):

"With four of the fastest finishers of all time in the battle, the pace was extremely slow. At the bell, Tummler jumped into the lead, while Norpoth delayed Ryun. But Ryun swung around Norpoth on the curve, with the German crowd roaring loudly.
"Then came the fastest burst of speed ever recorded in any mile or 1500 meter race. Ryun accelerated so fast and left Tummler behind so rapidly that the German crowd was stunned into silence. One expert observer timed Ryun's 100 meters along the backstretch in a nearly incredible 11.6 seconds.
"Ryun continued to pull away, although naturally not quite so fast. His last 200 meters averaged 12.4 seconds for each 100, a total of 24.8. Thus his last 300 meters took only 36.4, easily the fastest ever run. His last 400 was also fastest on record--50.6. (One report gave his last 400 as 49.7.)
"Results: Ryun 3:38.2, Tummler 3:42.3, Norpoth 3:42.5, Grelle 3:42.8."
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby lovetorun » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:48 pm

Ok...thanks for the good info. esp. Kuha and aaronk...good stuff.

Like Kuha, I'm a real Ryun fan. My greatest thrill watching Ryun in person was in Provo in the 1967 NCAA meet when he burst rapidly away from Oregon's Roscoe Divine with a 24.7 (reportedly) final 220 in his 4:03.5 mile win. Jim Ryun was a true phenomena.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby jeremyp » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:57 am

I'm pretty sure Snell did 24.5 last 220 against Beatty at Modesto in '63, with a last 120 in 14. Only .5 from his W.R. R.Q. and Nelson said: "Such speed has never been seen before on the last turn of any mile. Within 50 yards he had gained 10 yards on some very fast milers.......he coasted to the finish." He won by 2.4 seconds.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby deanouk » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:52 pm

jeremyp wrote:I'm pretty sure Snell did 24.5 last 220 against Beatty at Modesto in '63, with a last 120 in 14. Only .5 from his W.R. R.Q. and Nelson said: "Such speed has never been seen before on the last turn of any mile. Within 50 yards he had gained 10 yards on some very fast milers.......he coasted to the finish." He won by 2.4 seconds.


I've certainly read the quote and seen the 14.0 120yd split for that race, but in both my books by Quercetani and Nelson, there is no mention of the 24.5 split! It sounds a little fast, but possible I guess if coming after a previous 200m of around 30 secs.
His last 440 was 54.7 (54.4 last 400m) and the 120yd split works out about 12.8.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby G.Ahearn » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:06 pm

"Lovelock covered the last 300 meters in 40.8 seconds . . . "

and

Frank Welch (San Romani's coach): "Good God, I clocked him at 56 for his last quarter."

From the "Conquerors of Time" by Lynn McConnell
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby jeremyp » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:05 am

deanouk wrote:
jeremyp wrote:I'm pretty sure Snell did 24.5 last 220 against Beatty at Modesto in '63, with a last 120 in 14. Only .5 from his W.R. R.Q. and Nelson said: "Such speed has never been seen before on the last turn of any mile. Within 50 yards he had gained 10 yards on some very fast milers.......he coasted to the finish." He won by 2.4 seconds.


I've certainly read the quote and seen the 14.0 120yd split for that race, but in both my books by Quercetani and Nelson, there is no mention of the 24.5 split! It sounds a little fast, but possible I guess if coming after a previous 200m of around 30 secs.
His last 440 was 54.7 (54.4 last 400m) and the 120yd split works out about 12.8.

Here's the video. Judge for ourselves. He was clearly not at full speed the last 40m. The way he kills the field in just 15m is mind boggling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLMR54G2ulg
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby deanouk » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:55 am

jeremyp wrote:Here's the video. Judge for ourselves. He was clearly not at full speed the last 40m. The way he kills the field in just 15m is mind boggling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLMR54G2ulg


Cheers for the link. Very impressive turn of speed, reminiscent of Ovett's kick with 200 to go in Dusseldorf 77.
I think all of the greats were able to do that sort of thing when in top form. It's a shame that there is no clear marker for the 200m. I would add that the finishing straight seems a bit short, but perhaps the finish line was in that position on old 440yd tracks?

Its also hard to tell if he shut down with 40 to go or was just finding it a bit tough. Although he looked pretty fresh just after the race.
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Re: Fastest ever last lap in 1500/mile.

Postby br » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:30 am

I think both Fermín Cacho and Rachid El Basir ran approximately 50.5 in the 1992 Olympic final.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiqPRpKVY5E
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