qualifying requirements for T&F?


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qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby johnclark » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:17 am

I have been trying to work out how qualifying works for Olympics and WCs.

I understand that each NOC/nation can enter up to three A standard qualifiers or one B standard qualifier (with a reserve). That's all fine.

My question is about the other bunch of athletes that show up at Olympics and WCs who don't come close to either standard. As I understand it, each NOC/nation is allowed to submit one athlete to compete, even if they have not achieved the standards. There are 200+ nations in the world, but obviously not that many participate in each event. How are these athletes selected? Are there 200+ entrants and someone selects some of them, or are there actually only a few countries that enter someone?

I have heard of cases in the past where a leader sent his friends to compete in the Olympics - can that still happen?

I realise that things work a bit differently now with only three rounds in the sprints plus a qualifying round, but what about in competitions before 2011?

Thanks in advance
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby Marlow » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:32 am

johnclark wrote:each NOC/nation is allowed to submit one athlete to compete, even if they have not achieved the standards. There are 200+ nations in the world, but obviously not that many participate in each event.

You don't get a gratis entrant in every event, just 1 total for all events.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby johnclark » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:31 pm

Marlow wrote:
johnclark wrote:each NOC/nation is allowed to submit one athlete to compete, even if they have not achieved the standards. There are 200+ nations in the world, but obviously not that many participate in each event.

You don't get a gratis entrant in every event, just 1 total for all events.


Ah, thanks - I was misreading the rules. I suppose, in theory that every country could nominate the same event and then there would be 200+ competitors, but that would be unlikely.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby bambam » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:38 pm

Marlow wrote:
johnclark wrote:each NOC/nation is allowed to submit one athlete to compete, even if they have not achieved the standards. There are 200+ nations in the world, but obviously not that many participate in each event.

You don't get a gratis entrant in every event, just 1 total for all events.


Actually 2 - one male, one female. They are almost always entered in the 100 metres and this led to the new set of rounds with the first round now considered a preliminary round, with the leading time qualifiers exempted out of that round.

At the Olympics, the 2 free qualifiers can be in any sport - sometimes nations enter a boxer or judoka - those are the most common other sports for this.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby tandfman » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:49 pm

johnclark wrote:I have been trying to work out how qualifying works for Olympics and WCs.

I understand that each NOC/nation can enter up to three A standard qualifiers or one B standard qualifier (with a reserve).

The rules for the Olympics are different from the rules for the WCs. In the WCs, you can enter one or two A qualifiers plus one B (plus a reserve). In the Olympics, it's as you said--if you enter any A qualifiers, you cannot enter a B.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby gh » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:45 pm

isn't that you COULD enter A's and B's, with there being no B's starting next time around?
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby tandfman » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:19 pm

gh wrote:isn't that you COULD enter A's and B's, with there being no B's starting next time around?

Yes, absolutely true. My comments related to the system that has existed in recent years. It appears that this will change. The system in the future, for both the World Championships and the Olympic Games will have no B standards--just a single standard and a quota per event. This was announced at last month's IAAF Congress in Moscow.

http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/cong ... iaaf-world

IAAF Senior Vice President Robert Hersh outlined some of the latest evolutions for future IAAF competitions, of which one of the most significant was the new qualification system for the Olympic Games and World Championships.

Effective for the 2015 IAAF World Championships in Beijing, there will be a fixed number of athletes per event with the combined total of 2000 athletes competing. Instead of ‘A’ and ‘B’ standards, there will be a single qualification standard for each event, which aims to fill 75% of the quota for that discipline. The rest of the places will be filled by the top-ranked athletes in each event.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby Marlow » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:26 pm

tandfman wrote:there will be a single qualification standard for each event, which aims to fill 75% of the quota for that discipline. The rest of the places will be filled by the top-ranked athletes in each event.

And we still don't know what that even means?! It's just a descending order list? Why not just say the top 24 (or 32 or whatever) athletes on a list from date X to date Y and athletes with the 'standard' are guaranteed?
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby rsb2 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:23 pm

Prediction = dog's breakfast.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby tandfman » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:26 am

Marlow wrote:
tandfman wrote:there will be a single qualification standard for each event, which aims to fill 75% of the quota for that discipline. The rest of the places will be filled by the top-ranked athletes in each event.

And we still don't know what that even means?! It's just a descending order list? Why not just say the top 24 (or 32 or whatever) athletes on a list from date X to date Y and athletes with the 'standard' are guaranteed?

That's essentially correct, as I understand it. The target number will be different in different events. And I expect that the dates will match the qualifying period, which will be different in each event, as they are now. In any event, entry will be in the discretion of the national federations, as is the case now. Simply meeting the qual standard or being high enough on the descening order list doesn't guarantee entry in the WC or OG.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby Marlow » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:38 am

tandfman wrote:entry will be in the discretion of the national federations, as is the case now. Simply meeting the qual standard or being high enough on the descening order list doesn't guarantee entry in the WC or OG.

Has anyone ever met the A standard and NOT be sent by the NOC (assuming there are not already 3 others)? That would super-stink!
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby gh » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:38 am

gee, maybe the IAAF can clarify this by going back to the NCAA's dreadful "provisional qualifiers" list.

I don't know about you, but this is all about as clear as mud to me.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby norunner » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:30 pm

Marlow wrote:Has anyone ever met the A standard and NOT be sent by the NOC (assuming there are not already 3 others)? That would super-stink!
Yes, Diana Sujew ran a 4:05.62 last year, the A-standard for London was 4:06.00, however the german federation set a higher standard of 4:05.50, so she was left at home because of 0,12s. This year Nadine Kleinert met the SP A-standard for Moscow, however the did not compete at the NCs and since that was one of qualification criteria she did not get to go to Moscow.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby tandfman » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:44 pm

norunner wrote:
Marlow wrote:Has anyone ever met the A standard and NOT be sent by the NOC (assuming there are not already 3 others)? That would super-stink!
Yes, Diana Sujew ran a 4:05.62 last year, the A-standard for London was 4:06.00, however the german federation set a higher standard of 4:05.50, so she was left at home because of 0,12s. This year Nadine Kleinert met the SP A-standard for Moscow, however the did not compete at the NCs and since that was one of qualification criteria she did not get to go to Moscow.

Germany is not the only country that has higher standards than the IAAF standards. And of course, countries like the USA, which use their national championships or Olympic Trials to select their team, can also have IAAF qualifiers who are not selected for the WC or OG.
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby Marlow » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:51 pm

norunner wrote:Diana Sujew ran a 4:05.62 last year, the A-standard for London was 4:06.00, however the german federation set a higher standard of 4:05.50, so she was left at home because of 0,12s. This year Nadine Kleinert met the SP A-standard for Moscow, however the did not compete at the NCs and since that was one of qualification criteria she did not get to go to Moscow.

Yikes. Remind me not to be a world-class (yes, I believe the A-standard confers that appellation!) athlete in Germany!! :shock:
Was Kleinart injured? What would possess her not to show up at the NCs?
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Re: qualifying requirements for T&F?

Postby norunner » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:56 pm

Marlow wrote:
norunner wrote:Diana Sujew ran a 4:05.62 last year, the A-standard for London was 4:06.00, however the german federation set a higher standard of 4:05.50, so she was left at home because of 0,12s. This year Nadine Kleinert met the SP A-standard for Moscow, however the did not compete at the NCs and since that was one of qualification criteria she did not get to go to Moscow.

Yikes. Remind me not to be a world-class (yes, I believe the A-standard confers that appellation!) athlete in Germany!! :shock:
Was Kleinart injured? What would possess her not to show up at the NCs?
No, Kleinert had already announced that she would retire after 2013 and she wanted to tingle and make some money, so she competed at some international meeting instead of the NCs. She did ask the federation for permission, but they declined. Kleinert competed for Germany many years, won many medals (most of which she is only now getting because of all the busted dopers), i think the DLV should have done her the favour as a thank you, instead of kicking her in the butt, but thats the way it is, federations expect athletes to be there for them instead of the other way around.
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