The first world rcord on a synthetic surface


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The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby rhymans » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:56 am

A trivia question. What was the first world record set on a synthetic (non cinders, clay or grass) surface. It's not Bob Hayes's 9.1 in 1963. It precedes that mark, and I only discovered this a few minutes ago - if you know this I will be most impressed.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby Marlow » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:12 am

Ha! can't fool me with this trick question. Concrete is a 'synthetic' (i.e., not natural) surface and there were plenty of SP, DT and HT WRs before 1963!!! Impressed, arncha? :D
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby rhymans » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:09 am

Not enormously. I'm thinking about a similar surface to St Louis 1963 (perhaps not quite as sophisticated)
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:09 am

Percy Beard "invented" the Grasstex track installed in Gainesville, FL in 1959, if that helps?
Guessing there may have been an indoor record on Astroturf around the same time?
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby rhymans » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:56 pm

This is a ratified outdoor record
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby slowcat » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:46 pm

Do you consider 'en tout cas' tracks synthetic. If so, Roger Bannister
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby Marlow » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:52 pm

Gimme a hint. Is it in your WR-Progression book, labeled as such?
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby rhymans » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:54 pm

It is in the WR progression book - not (until yesterday) described as such. The surface is now described as rubberized asphalt. The athlete concerned is an American.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby no one » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:35 am

is it athleteS
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby Jackaloupe » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:09 pm

I'm guessing High Jump, but not Charley Dumas's 7-footer, which was likely clay. Chuck Coker had a slab of Neoprene at the takeoff in 1960, but no one took advantage of it for a WR.

Mike Herman jumped a Decathlon WR (25' plus) in the 1960 OlyTrials in Eugene: Bowerman had installed an Indoor-like plywood platform runway that had everyone leaping out of their gourds, as we used to say. [I jumped a full foot beyond my PR, but still <7m.]. Herman's WR stood until Ashton Eaton stunning 8.23 that set his WR 9039 on course.

BTW, Surprisingly, in light of all the coy go-rounds on gh's LJ Trivia, no one's mentioned Indoor WRs, but that would be as silly as speculation over Bolt's demise.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby Per Andersen » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:51 pm

Andy Stanfield, Philadelphia 1951.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby wineturtle » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:30 pm

Per Andersen wrote:Andy Stanfield, Philadelphia 1951.

IC4As that year I guess.
Would assume the track reconfiguration was involved. Can not seem to find anything deeper about specifics-

From the Penn Relays site
http://www.thepennrelays.com/ViewArticl ... ID=1403689
Feb. 19, 2002


The Penn Relays: First, Largest, Best of the Relay Meets
By Dave Johnson
Penn Relays Director

In 1951, at the urging of Ken Doherty, the Relays began a new push to further increase the number of participants and heighten spectator interest. Doherty oversaw the widening of the track to the inside, which added six lanes. These were used for the sprints, and together with the existing track eventually allowed for more competitors in the sprint relays. In addition, the inner six lanes provided better viewing from the stands as well as a better sprint surface because it was not continually chewed up by heavy action.

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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby rhymans » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:05 pm

Jackaloupe was closest.

Amateur Athlete reported that "John (Thomas) hit the rubberized asphalt take-off...and this time was a good inch above 7-2" [- July 1960 issue, reporting on the AAU at Bakersfield.]
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby paw » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:09 am

newsreels from AAU in Bakersfield 1960 of John Thomas' world record:

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/news-in-flashes-7
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby gh » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:57 am

Now for some real research, Richardo! When were the last throws records off dirt and/or grass?

I can remember photos in T&FN from as recent as the early '50s of putters wearing spikes and throwing off dirt. Obviously the advent of O'Brien's WRs with the glide changed the nature of that substrate rapidly. But what was the timeline?
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby tandfman » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:52 pm

wineturtle wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:Andy Stanfield, Philadelphia 1951.

IC4As that year I guess.
Would assume the track reconfiguration was involved. Can not seem to find anything deeper about specifics-

From the Penn Relays site
http://www.thepennrelays.com/ViewArticl ... ID=1403689
Feb. 19, 2002

The Penn Relays: First, Largest, Best of the Relay Meets
By Dave Johnson
Penn Relays Director

In 1951, at the urging of Ken Doherty, the Relays began a new push to further increase the number of participants and heighten spectator interest. Doherty oversaw the widening of the track to the inside, which added six lanes. These were used for the sprints, and together with the existing track eventually allowed for more competitors in the sprint relays. In addition, the inner six lanes provided better viewing from the stands as well as a better sprint surface because it was not continually chewed up by heavy action.

Nothing there says that those added inside lanes were synthetic.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby Per Andersen » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:03 pm

gh wrote:Now for some real research, Richardo! When were the last throws records off dirt and/or grass?

I can remember photos in T&FN from as recent as the early '50s of putters wearing spikes and throwing off dirt. Obviously the advent of O'Brien's WRs with the glide changed the nature of that substrate rapidly. But what was the timeline?

Javelin, Cantello on grass in '59?
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby dj » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:07 am

rhymans wrote:Jackaloupe was closest.

Amateur Athlete reported that "John (Thomas) hit the rubberized asphalt take-off...and this time was a good inch above 7-2" [- July 1960 issue, reporting on the AAU at Bakersfield.]


Grasstex jump runways were installed at Franklin Field (Philadelphia) before the 1959 season in anticipation of hosting the US-SU dual that summer. As a result, we'll claim the first synthetic surface WR with John Thomas's (2.17) 7-1 1/2 clearance at the Penn Relays on April 30, 1960.

That's something I'd never thought about.

(We've been moving our office this past week so it took some unpacking to confirm the Grasstex installation.)
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby wineturtle » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:20 am

tandfman wrote:
wineturtle wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:Andy Stanfield, Philadelphia 1951.

IC4As that year I guess.
Would assume the track reconfiguration was involved. Can not seem to find anything deeper about specifics-

From the Penn Relays site
http://www.thepennrelays.com/ViewArticl ... ID=1403689
Feb. 19, 2002

The Penn Relays: First, Largest, Best of the Relay Meets
By Dave Johnson
Penn Relays Director

In 1951, at the urging of Ken Doherty, the Relays began a new push to further increase the number of participants and heighten spectator interest. Doherty oversaw the widening of the track to the inside, which added six lanes. These were used for the sprints, and together with the existing track eventually allowed for more competitors in the sprint relays. In addition, the inner six lanes provided better viewing from the stands as well as a better sprint surface because it was not continually chewed up by heavy action.



Nothing there says that those added inside lanes were synthetic.



You are correct but since Per A suggested it might be Stanfield in 1951 I looked for a possible reason for that to be the correct answer I included a "guess" "I assume" and a ""can't find..." So I did not say the added lanes were synthetic--- I was trying to look deeper into the Stanfield suggestion. I'll try to be clearer in the future :
In regard to Sanfield '51 my quick research indicates a track reconfiguration at Franklin Field that season and if Stanfield is the answer we might look into that reconfiguration to ascertain if there was a synthetic surface of some kind involved.

t&fman thanks for reminding me that even with three indications that I did not know the answer a reader might infer I was saying they laid synthetic surface at Franklin Field in 1951.
Sorry, I did not mean to confuse you or any one else by indicating that Stanfield at the IC4A meet in Philadelphia in 1951 was the correct answer based on my deeper research .
tom
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby dj » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:07 am

The first synthetic surface on the Franklin Field track was installed in the summer of 1966. That was a 3M Tartan surface, which was replaced in summer 1975 with a Chevron surface when the track was converted to a metric configuration.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby rhymans » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:49 pm

DJ - thanks for the grasstex note - it will go into the 2015 WR book
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby decaboy » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:36 pm

Jackaloupe wrote:I'm guessing High Jump, but not Charley Dumas's 7-footer, which was likely clay. Chuck Coker had a slab of Neoprene at the takeoff in 1960, but no one took advantage of it for a WR.

Mike Herman jumped a Decathlon WR (25' plus) in the 1960 OlyTrials in Eugene: Bowerman had installed an Indoor-like plywood platform runway that had everyone leaping out of their gourds, as we used to say. [I jumped a full foot beyond my PR, but still <7m.]. Herman's WR stood until Ashton Eaton stunning 8.23 that set his WR 9039 on course.

BTW, Surprisingly, in light of all the coy go-rounds on gh's LJ Trivia, no one's mentioned Indoor WRs, but that would be as silly as speculation over Bolt's demise.


Mike Herman's jump was 8.00 (26' 3"), and lasted a good long while as deca WR...but not the 52 years until Eaton. In the 1984 Los Angeles OG, Daley Thompson jumped 8.01 to set Decathlon WR in long jump...which was then surpassed (legally) by 7 other men, including Dan O'Brien (8.07) in his WR in 1992, Roman Seberle jumped 8.11 in his historic barrier-breaking 9000+ performance, and Eaton actually broke Erki Nool's mark of 8.22.
Still...I'd take Herman's 8.00 jump ANY time!
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby bambam » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:35 am

decaboy wrote:Mike Herman's jump was 8.00 (26' 3"), and lasted a good long while as deca WR...but not the 52 years until Eaton. In the 1984 Los Angeles OG, Daley Thompson jumped 8.01 to set Decathlon WR in long jump...which was then surpassed (legally) by 7 other men, including Dan O'Brien (8.07) in his WR in 1992, Roman Seberle jumped 8.11 in his historic barrier-breaking 9000+ performance, and Eaton actually broke Erki Nool's mark of 8.22.
Still...I'd take Herman's 8.00 jump ANY time!


decaboy, do you by chance have a World Record Progression list for the decathlon (and heptathlon) events? We have an Olympic Record Progression list for the dec and hept, and in non-multis we always mark "WR" when one of those was a world record, but I am unable to accurately do that for the multis and would like to do so. e-mail me at bill1729@gmail.com if you have any information on this. I asked Zarnowski about it a few months ago and he have never compiled this progression.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby gh » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:42 pm

I can envision a whole new set of stats here! highest HJ/PV records into dirt, then sawdust, then foam, then composite synthetic pit!
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby bambam » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:40 am

gh wrote:I can envision a whole new set of stats here! highest HJ/PV records into dirt, then sawdust, then foam, then composite synthetic pit!


So? I remember some editor at TAF News a few years ago wrote an editorial that we needed more world records, not fewer of them, with stricter criteria. Great editorial - made a lot of sense.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby decaboy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:26 am

bambam,

I get my info from this fabulous site:
http://www.decathlon2000.com/eng/861/to ... 00-points/

Run by Janek Salmistu (a Dane I believe). You know how those scandanavians love them some decathlon!
Sorry I don't have any Heptathlon info. On Janek's site he mentions it, but I couldn't find any links to any info.
Enjoy!
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby Per Andersen » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:50 pm

decaboy wrote:bambam,

I get my info from this fabulous site:
http://www.decathlon2000.com/eng/861/to ... 00-points/

Run by Janek Salmistu (a Dane I believe). You know how those scandanavians love them some decathlon!
Sorry I don't have any Heptathlon info. On Janek's site he mentions it, but I couldn't find any links to any info.
Enjoy!

Great site! But Salmistu is not Danish. He's from the Baltics. Estonia.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby decaboy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:19 pm

Per,
I stand corrected...and thanks for the info.
Janek's web site is one of the best, of any kind, I've ever seen.
And the Estonians also love their decathlon!
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby bambam » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:09 am

decaboy wrote:Per,
I stand corrected...and thanks for the info.
Janek's web site is one of the best, of any kind, I've ever seen.
And the Estonians also love their decathlon!


It is great. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a world record progression by event that I can find.
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby decaboy » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:22 am

bambam,
I'm working on piecing it together. May take some time...like putting together my mother's annual Christmas puzzle!
I'll soon share with you what I have so far.
Happy holidays. :D
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Re: The first world rcord on a synthetic surface

Postby bambam » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:38 am

decaboy wrote:bambam,
I'm working on piecing it together. May take some time...like putting together my mother's annual Christmas puzzle!
I'll soon share with you what I have so far.
Happy holidays. :D


That would be great, decaboy. Thanx and Happy Holidays
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