Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games


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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby br » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:07 pm

Gretel Bergmann is still with us. Age 99.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby bekayne » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:24 pm

bambam wrote:The "female" athlete who Bergmann thought was strange was called Dora Ratjen - "she" was actually a male, who the Germans coerced into competing as a woman. His name was long thought to be Hermann Ratjen, but more recent interviews with him have shown it to be Heinrich "Heinz" Ratjen. He was outed in September 1938 shortly after winning the European Championships high jump.

Not quite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Ratjen
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby bambam » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:50 pm

bekayne wrote:
bambam wrote:The "female" athlete who Bergmann thought was strange was called Dora Ratjen - "she" was actually a male, who the Germans coerced into competing as a woman. His name was long thought to be Hermann Ratjen, but more recent interviews with him have shown it to be Heinrich "Heinz" Ratjen. He was outed in September 1938 shortly after winning the European Championships high jump.

Not quite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Ratjen


Not exactly sure what you meant by not quite, and also not certain what you feel is not correct about the above.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby bekayne » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:47 pm

bambam wrote:
bekayne wrote:
bambam wrote:The "female" athlete who Bergmann thought was strange was called Dora Ratjen - "she" was actually a male, who the Germans coerced into competing as a woman. His name was long thought to be Hermann Ratjen, but more recent interviews with him have shown it to be Heinrich "Heinz" Ratjen. He was outed in September 1938 shortly after winning the European Championships high jump.

Not quite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Ratjen


Not exactly sure what you meant by not quite, and also not certain what you feel is not correct about the above.

The part that it was some sort of ruse by the Nazis, when he had in fact been passing as a female all his life.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby fasttrak85 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:14 am

KDFINE wrote:Fasttrack85. The athlete you just posted about was a high jumper. She'd made it out of Germany to England but pressure was put on her family for her to return home so that the Germans could show that they were allowing Jews the opportunity to compete for berths in the '36 games, which in her case was a cruel facade. She eventually make it out, and I believe would up in Queens, N.Y.C. Her name escapes me. Not only has there been a documentary about her but also a "movie" movie, a few years old, which I believe was a German production.



Yes I think you are right. I didnt remember all the details but I could still feel the spirit of the documentary. I remember that she moved to England as well and having family having to escape the holocaust. Very touching story.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby fasttrak85 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:25 am

bekayne wrote:
bambam wrote:
bekayne wrote:
bambam wrote:The "female" athlete who Bergmann thought was strange was called Dora Ratjen - "she" was actually a male, who the Germans coerced into competing as a woman. His name was long thought to be Hermann Ratjen, but more recent interviews with him have shown it to be Heinrich "Heinz" Ratjen. He was outed in September 1938 shortly after winning the European Championships high jump.

Not quite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Ratjen


Not exactly sure what you meant by not quite, and also not certain what you feel is not correct about the above.

The part that it was some sort of ruse by the Nazis, when he had in fact been passing as a female all his life.



Passing? Where? The Braille Society. Here are some pics of "her".

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos/201 ... 610078.jpg

http://historiasdeportivas.files.wordpr ... /dora2.jpg

If this is what use to pass as a German woman then Germany has come along way from then to Heidi Klum.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:21 pm

Re the above, in a bar, at 1:30 am, after 4 or 5 drinks.... you might love " her" !
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby lonewolf » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:59 pm

Is there that much beer in Munich??? :)
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby BillVol » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:47 pm

I actually called Greta Bergmann on the phone a few years ago after seeing a docu on her on TV. There is a thread somewhere on here about that.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby tandfman » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:15 am

BillVol wrote:I actually called Greta Bergmann on the phone a few years ago after seeing a docu on her on TV. There is a thread somewhere on here about that.

It's here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27203&p=383855
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby BillVol » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:02 am

tandfman wrote:
BillVol wrote:I actually called Greta Bergmann on the phone a few years ago after seeing a docu on her on TV. There is a thread somewhere on here about that.

It's here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27203&p=383855


My God, time flies. She was really nice after getting over the surprise of a total stranger from Tennessee calling her.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby bekayne » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:59 am

fasttrak85 wrote:Passing? Where? The Braille Society. Here are some pics of "her".

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos/201 ... 610078.jpg

http://historiasdeportivas.files.wordpr ... /dora2.jpg


Reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl6z03A5zRs
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby fasttrak85 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:36 am

lonewolf wrote:Is there that much beer in Munich??? :)



All the beer from Oktober fest, St Patricks Day, and Fourth of July since their inception wouldnt be enough!!!!
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby dukehjsteve » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:31 pm

fasttrak85 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:Is there that much beer in Munich??? :)



All the beer from Oktober fest, St Patricks Day, and Fourth of July since their inception wouldnt be enough!!!!



Any port in a storm......

At night all cats are gray....
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby lonewolf » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:36 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:
fasttrak85 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:Is there that much beer in Munich??? :)



All the beer from Oktober fest, St Patricks Day, and Fourth of July since their inception wouldnt be enough!!!!



Any port in a storm......

At night all cats are gray....

Useful cliches but..comes the dawn. :shock: :)
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby fasttrak85 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:55 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:
fasttrak85 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:Is there that much beer in Munich??? :)



All the beer from Oktober fest, St Patricks Day, and Fourth of July since their inception wouldnt be enough!!!!



Any port in a storm......

At night all cats are gray....


I guess if you are seriously visually impaired and conducting private business where there is no external lightsource(not even a candle) then the second cliche would apply. I dont see how the first one would apply as this is not a life and death situation.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby trackinblack2 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:56 am

dukehjsteve wrote:Re the above, in a bar, at 1:30 am, after 4 or 5 drinks.... you might love " her" !

Beer Goggles would have to have been completely out of focus.
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Re: Jewish sprinters at Berlin Games

Postby user4 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:40 pm

bekayne wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Ratjen

Yes, Wiki has a pretty good piece on Heinrich (aka Dora) Ratjen. I always bought/believed the Time magazine myth of Dora as a case of orchestrated cheating in athletics. The wiki page makes it clear that it just was not so.
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