Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?


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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby dustoff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:34 pm

Adriana S wrote:
dustoff wrote:
Adriana S wrote:@Dustoff: I am not sure why you consider the 200m to be a lesser event in comparison to the 400m? :| The 100m I can understand, but the 400m? The 100m and 200m have always been the most exciting/looked forward to events, even moreso now with the likes of Usain Bolt around as the face of T&F.


There are essentially no 200m specialists, other than her and I suppose Spearmon, an even less interesting sprinter of the same cloth as Felix. The 200m is also always decidedly after the 100m and generally incompatible with the 400m. The 200m is an afterthought event as the 100m is the most significant and the 400m generally is more specialized and not compatible on the timetable for doublers even at the NCAA level.


What do you mean by generally incompatible with the 400m? As in, a sprinter who is a a 200m specialist is less likely to be successful as a 400m runner and vice versa?


There is generally a lot of overlap in the timeschedule. At NCAAs in the current formate, it is actually impossible, which is why Xavier Carter did the 100/400 double and in most national/international championships, it isn't set-up in a way to make the double possible. MJ had to get a change in the timetable to be able to do it.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby dustoff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:39 pm

Tuariki wrote:
dustoff wrote:
Adriana S wrote:@Dustoff: I am not sure why you consider the 200m to be a lesser event in comparison to the 400m? :| The 100m I can understand, but the 400m? The 100m and 200m have always been the most exciting/looked forward to events, even moreso now with the likes of Usain Bolt around as the face of T&F.


There are essentially no 200m specialists, other than her and I suppose Spearmon, an even less interesting sprinter of the same cloth as Felix. The 200m is also always decidedly after the 100m and generally incompatible with the 400m. The 200m is an afterthought event as the 100m is the most significant and the 400m generally is more specialized and not compatible on the timetable for doublers even at the NCAA level.

Bolt. Also dabbles quite well in the 100m.


He runs more 100m races, runs the 100m fresh, and his 100m record is pretty far superior to his 200m record. I have no idea how you can call him a specialist unless you are referring to everything before 2008. He might have more ultimate potential there, but thus far he hasn't done it and would be weaker at that distance. There is more absolute time between his 9.58 and the 9.69 from TG/YB than between his 200m record and YB 19.26. Hell, there is almost as much absolute time between his 100m pr with Walter Dix as his 200.

The 200 in general is always going to be weaker because people will come into the race significantly fatigued.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby bambam » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:18 pm

Adriana S wrote:She already has 2 back-to-back Olympic titles.


In the 4x400 relay, but not in the 200 - gold in 2012, silver in 2004-08
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Adriana S » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:17 pm

bambam wrote:
Adriana S wrote:She already has 2 back-to-back Olympic titles.


In the 4x400 relay, but not in the 200 - gold in 2012, silver in 2004-08


I was talking about SAFP.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby dustoff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:04 pm

Adriana S wrote:
bambam wrote:
Adriana S wrote:She already has 2 back-to-back Olympic titles.


In the 4x400 relay, but not in the 200 - gold in 2012, silver in 2004-08


I was talking about SAFP.


Gail Devers has two as well.

Plus, all the girls from the 80 had the unfortunate aspect of missing either the '80 or '84 games because of boycotts.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby eldanielfire » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:13 am

zidan wrote:If we are talking greatest 200m sprinter, Ottey has to be in the top five. If its 1/2 combination, she is there also and I think SFP with her Oly 200 silver and the possibility of more to come,is going to be hovering near the top by the time her career is over.



Is Ottey top 5? It seems to me her career is one of disappointment, flopping most occasions where it mattered. Talented? Yes! But successful? Not so much. A 'could have been' top 5 rather than a 'is in the'
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Rog » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:01 am

If we're talking top 5, my picks are:

Irena Szewinska - long, successful career at all 3 sprints, with Olympic Golds, world records, and one year she was top ranked at all 3 sprints;

Renate Stecher - long period of dominance at both 100 and 200, including Olympic Golds and world records;

Marlies Gohr - long period of dominance, incredible consistency (9 successive years at either no.1 or 2 over 100), world records, gold medals (but no Olympic Gold - however it seems she was activey conspired against by the Soviets in 80);

Evelyn Ashford - Gohr's big rival, better win-loss record but not as consistent and not as many top rankings; and

Marita Koch - the most consistent and by far the most dominant female sprinter of all time, 12 no 1 rankings over 200 and 400, 11 world records, golds galore.

I would rate Marita as the greatest sprinter of all time. Her record was almost flawless - none of the others had just that level of domination. For example, Szewinska picked up a lot of minor medals or missed them entirely, Stecher's career was fairly short, Gohr tailed off a little in her final couple of seasons, and Ashford was only a top 2 ranked sprinter for about half of her career. Also, in the case of Ashford and Gohr, they really only starred at one event.

Of the current crop I think Shelly-Anne Fraser has been the most impressive, she has golds and could continue to win more. Also by adding the 200 to her repertoire, she could pick up more there too.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:42 am

Rog wrote:If we're talking top 5, my picks are:

Irena Szewinska - long, successful career at all 3 sprints, with Olympic Golds, world records, and one year she was top ranked at all 3 sprints;

Renate Stecher - long period of dominance at both 100 and 200, including Olympic Golds and world records;

Marlies Gohr - long period of dominance, incredible consistency (9 successive years at either no.1 or 2 over 100), world records, gold medals (but no Olympic Gold - however it seems she was activey conspired against by the Soviets in 80);

Evelyn Ashford - Gohr's big rival, better win-loss record but not as consistent and not as many top rankings; and

Marita Koch - the most consistent and by far the most dominant female sprinter of all time, 12 no 1 rankings over 200 and 400, 11 world records, golds galore.

I would rate Marita as the greatest sprinter of all time. Her record was almost flawless - none of the others had just that level of domination. For example, Szewinska picked up a lot of minor medals or missed them entirely, Stecher's career was fairly short, Gohr tailed off a little in her final couple of seasons, and Ashford was only a top 2 ranked sprinter for about half of her career. Also, in the case of Ashford and Gohr, they really only starred at one event.

Of the current crop I think Shelly-Anne Fraser has been the most impressive, she has golds and could continue to win more. Also by adding the 200 to her repertoire, she could pick up more there too.

Take PEDs out of the equation and your choices are pretty hard to argue against, except maybe for Betty Cuthbert
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Rog » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:00 am

Tuariki wrote:
Rog wrote:If we're talking top 5, my picks are:

Irena Szewinska - long, successful career at all 3 sprints, with Olympic Golds, world records, and one year she was top ranked at all 3 sprints;

Renate Stecher - long period of dominance at both 100 and 200, including Olympic Golds and world records;

Marlies Gohr - long period of dominance, incredible consistency (9 successive years at either no.1 or 2 over 100), world records, gold medals (but no Olympic Gold - however it seems she was activey conspired against by the Soviets in 80);

Evelyn Ashford - Gohr's big rival, better win-loss record but not as consistent and not as many top rankings; and

Marita Koch - the most consistent and by far the most dominant female sprinter of all time, 12 no 1 rankings over 200 and 400, 11 world records, golds galore.

I would rate Marita as the greatest sprinter of all time. Her record was almost flawless - none of the others had just that level of domination. For example, Szewinska picked up a lot of minor medals or missed them entirely, Stecher's career was fairly short, Gohr tailed off a little in her final couple of seasons, and Ashford was only a top 2 ranked sprinter for about half of her career. Also, in the case of Ashford and Gohr, they really only starred at one event.

Of the current crop I think Shelly-Anne Fraser has been the most impressive, she has golds and could continue to win more. Also by adding the 200 to her repertoire, she could pick up more there too.

Take PEDs out of the equation and your choices are pretty hard to argue against, except maybe for Betty Cuthbert


Thanks Tuariki

I don't believe I can take PEDs out of the equation because I honestly think it's endemic to the sport. Betty Cuthbert is certainly one of the greats, but I remember years back another poster pointed out that she didn't achieve that much apart from from her Golds, so maybe she doesn't quite make it to the top 5. Still, she's the only woman to win gold at all 3 sprints, so that's hugely impressive by itself!
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby user4 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:50 am

Rog wrote:
I don't believe I can take PEDs out of the equation because I honestly think it's endemic to the sport. Betty Cuthbert is certainly one of the greats, but I remember years back another poster pointed out that she didn't achieve that much apart from from her Golds, so maybe she doesn't quite make it to the top 5. Still, she's the only woman to win gold at all 3 sprints, so that's hugely impressive by itself!



" ... another poster pointed out that she didn't achieve that much apart from from her Golds,"

I can think of no better reason to forget "another poster".
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:06 am

user4 wrote:
Rog wrote:
I don't believe I can take PEDs out of the equation because I honestly think it's endemic to the sport. Betty Cuthbert is certainly one of the greats, but I remember years back another poster pointed out that she didn't achieve that much apart from from her Golds, so maybe she doesn't quite make it to the top 5. Still, she's the only woman to win gold at all 3 sprints, so that's hugely impressive by itself!



" ... another poster pointed out that she didn't achieve that much apart from from her Golds,"

I can think of no better reason to forget "another poster".

If only I had been such an under achiever
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Tuariki » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:23 am

In her day no WC, no DL. Only Olympic gold and world records. Besides gold in 100, 200 and 400 she had world records in 60m, 100y, 200m, 220y and 440y. Also 4 x100m
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:40 am

If this applies only to the 200, then Szewińska is obviously number 1. I have Koch and Ottey behind her on my list.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby batonless relay » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:33 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:If this applies only to the 200, then Szewińska is obviously number 1. I have Koch and Ottey behind her on my list.

If it were applied only to the 200, then Flojo wins hands down; it's not even close. Also, I think Privalova ranks ahead of Ashford. If you're choosing Ashford v Gohr, then you have to consider Privalova against a team of sprinters from the USA and Jamaica and I think she does quite well.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby dustoff » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:30 pm

The real question is will we ever see athletes with the range of Privalova/Koch ever again? You can't go and say it is primarily drugs either because even Marion couldn't compare to those two at her best and plenty of others have been implicated or caught and not come close. Most of the current crop seems content focusing on 1 race and being an also ran in another, let alone being competitive in the whole range. Felix, with all of her talent, backing, and affiliation with Kersee, cannot touch them.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Flumpy » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:36 am

batonless relay wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:If this applies only to the 200, then Szewińska is obviously number 1. I have Koch and Ottey behind her on my list.

If it were applied only to the 200, then Flojo wins hands down; it's not even close.


Flo Jo??? :?

She'd just about scrape into my Top 10 in either sprint. Nowhere near to being a GOAT of anything.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Powell » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:03 am

batonless relay wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:If this applies only to the 200, then Szewińska is obviously number 1. I have Koch and Ottey behind her on my list.

If it were applied only to the 200, then Flojo wins hands down; it's not even close.


1 no. 1 ranking for Flo Jo, 7 for Szewińska. You're right, it's not even close to being close.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby batonless relay » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:20 am

Flumpy wrote:
batonless relay wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:If this applies only to the 200, then Szewińska is obviously number 1. I have Koch and Ottey behind her on my list.

If it were applied only to the 200, then Flojo wins hands down; it's not even close.


Flo Jo??? :?

She'd just about scrape into my Top 10 in either sprint. Nowhere near to being a GOAT of anything.

That's only because you don't like her because of things you can't prove...but, if she partied with you...then you might change your view :roll: Anyway, her performances are just too dominant not to consider; it would be like not considering Bob Hayes in the 100m.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby batonless relay » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:28 am

Powell wrote:
batonless relay wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:If this applies only to the 200, then Szewińska is obviously number 1. I have Koch and Ottey behind her on my list.

If it were applied only to the 200, then Flojo wins hands down; it's not even close.


1 no. 1 ranking for Flo Jo, 7 for Szewińska. You're right, it's not even close to being close.

Szewińska, though a formidable talent, ran in an era not too unlike now; I don't think she would be as dominant in the 80's/90's. Regardless of medals or WRs...I don't rate her as high as you do. Oh well.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Powell » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:45 am

batonless relay wrote:her performances are just too dominant not to consider; it would be like not considering Bob Hayes in the 100m.


Hayes was the dominant no. 1 for most of one Olympic cycle and then retired young. Flo Jo was around for a long time, so potentially she could have been the best in the world for many seasons, but didn't actually do it until she was 29, and she retired after that season. Sorry; one season as no. 1, no matter how great a season it was, doesn't make you the best ever.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby batonless relay » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:17 am

Powell wrote:
batonless relay wrote:her performances are just too dominant not to consider; it would be like not considering Bob Hayes in the 100m.


Hayes was the dominant no. 1 for most of one Olympic cycle and then retired young. Flo Jo was around for a long time, so potentially she could have been the best in the world for many seasons, but didn't actually do it until she was 29, and she retired after that season. Sorry; one season as no. 1, no matter how great a season it was, doesn't make you the best ever.

Come on, it wasn't just one season and you know that. Florence (before the "Jo") won silver in 22.04 in Los Angeles and silver at WC in Rome. You make it sound like she begged her way to the games. Plus, she led the 100m list in '87 at 10.89 before '88 even started.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Powell » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:38 am

No, I clearly said she'd been around for a long Time, but never no. 1, until 1988. No idea where you got the 10.89 from. In 87 she set a PB of 10.96 and was the 6th fastest of the year.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby The Klingon » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:48 pm

Flumpy wrote:What an odd thread??? :?



I totally agree. :?
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:04 pm

batonless relay wrote:That's only because you don't like her because of things you can't prove...


Nonsense. I love her. She was my favourite athlete ever at the time.

She's nowhere near #1 because one great season doesn't come close to the accomplishments of many other athletes.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby The Flying Pigdog » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:22 pm

Gwen Torrence was a better sprinter than Irina Privalova or Allyson Felix. Torrence generally whooped Privalova throughout the early and mid 90s and even had a better 400m PR. Irina was more versatile because I suppose she gave it a shot at the hurdles, but that still isn't enough in my book to rate her ahead of Gwen. Irina also got the edge over the 50, 60m. As for Felix, she isn't better than Gwen in ANY event, despite her 200 PR being slightly superior. Felix has all those gold because she didn't have to step on the track in the 200m and contend with a Merlene Ottey or Privalova.

Torrence's hardware also speaks for itself -

1991 - silver 100m, silver 200m
1992 - gold 200m
1993 - bronze 100m, silver 200m
1995 - gold 100m, DQ 200m (would have won)
1996 - bronze 100m

The only time Privalova beat her was the 1995 200m DQ and 1992 100m.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby user4 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:23 am

Allyson Felix runs with a feminine grace that defies calculation and she has real star power. Get over it!
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby mump boy » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:02 am

user4 wrote:Allyson Felix runs with a feminine grace that defies calculation and she has real star power. Get over it!


'Feminine grace' !!

That's certainly important when i'm calculating GOATS :roll:
Last edited by mump boy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby user4 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:21 am

mump boy wrote:
user4 wrote:Allyson Felix runs with a feminine grace that defies calculation and she has real star power. Get over it!


'Femine grace' !!

That's certainly impotant when i'm calculating GOATS :roll:


Allyson Felix makes promotion of track meets possible. Allyson Felix makes the most drab track facilities seem like a rock concert ! When Allyson Felix runs Madison Avenue pauses to take notes... Dont be left behind, wondering what happened, take the time and watch her.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby mump boy » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:09 pm

user4 wrote:
mump boy wrote:
user4 wrote:Allyson Felix runs with a feminine grace that defies calculation and she has real star power. Get over it!


'Femine grace' !!

That's certainly impotant when i'm calculating GOATS :roll:


Allyson Felix makes promotion of track meets possible. Allyson Felix makes the most drab track facilities seem like a rock concert ! When Allyson Felix runs Madison Avenue pauses to take notes... Dont be left behind, wondering what happened, take the time and watch her.


I'll definitely consider all of these attributes when contemplating all time athletics greats, they are VERY relevant. I don't know why i hadn't realised sooner :shock:
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby user4 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:21 pm

mump boy wrote:I'll definitely consider all of these attributes when contemplating all time athletics greats, they are VERY relevant. I don't know why i hadn't realised sooner :shock:


Just admit it, "The Greatest" is a much bigger concept than any one person can get their head around.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby mump boy » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:05 am

user4 wrote:
mump boy wrote:I'll definitely consider all of these attributes when contemplating all time athletics greats, they are VERY relevant. I don't know why i hadn't realised sooner :shock:


Just admit it, "The Greatest" is a much bigger concept than any one person can get their head around.


Especially if you add all kinds of irrelevant, nonsense to the proceedings
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Gabriella » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:51 am

user4 wrote:Allyson Felix makes promotion of track meets possible. Allyson Felix makes the most drab track facilities seem like a rock concert ! When Allyson Felix runs Madison Avenue pauses to take notes... Dont be left behind, wondering what happened, take the time and watch her.


When I think of an athlete that turns a track into a rock concert, I don't think of Felix. Anwyay, are you on drugs? You seem to be talking nonsense. This is not about an athletes personality ( or lack of in this case) or how marketable they are (which I agree she is), this is about achievement.

Felix has achieved a considerable amount in her lifetime, but she suffers because of the lack of opportunity others had, which isnt her fault. However, what is her fault is her lack of races over her main distance on the circuit. If she competed more we'd see more world class times. As it stands, how do we compare her to the greats of the early 90's who regularly ran and churned out runs between 21.8-22.2? She has also gained from being a 200m specialist, whereas most of the other talent of today races at 100 or 400. Again, this isn't her fault, but it just means it makes it harder to compare her to Ottey, Torrance, Privalova, Jones,Ashford & others who did the 100/200 double regularly.

As it stands, she has to be in the top 5 of all time over 200m. I just dont know where :?
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby batonless relay » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:08 am

Gabriella wrote:...

Felix has achieved a considerable amount in her lifetime, but she suffers because of the lack of opportunity others ... this isn't her fault, but it just means it makes it harder to compare her to Ottey, Torrance, Privalova, Jones,Ashford & others who did the 100/200 double regularly.

As it stands, she has to be in the top 5 of all time over 200m. I just dont know where :?

Top 5? Don't know where? Is she better than Ottey? No. Marion Jones Pre-99? No. Gwen Torrence? Hell no. Flojo? No. Wockel? No. Koch? No. Gohr? Hmmm. Moeller? I doubt it. No way Felix makes the top-5.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby user4 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:46 am

batonless relay wrote:
Gabriella wrote:...

Felix has achieved a considerable amount in her lifetime, but she suffers because of the lack of opportunity others ... this isn't her fault, but it just means it makes it harder to compare her to Ottey, Torrance, Privalova, Jones,Ashford & others who did the 100/200 double regularly.

As it stands, she has to be in the top 5 of all time over 200m. I just dont know where :?

Top 5? Don't know where? Is she better than Ottey? No. Marion Jones Pre-99? No. Gwen Torrence? Hell no. Flojo? No. Wockel? No. Koch? No. Gohr? Hmmm. Moeller? I doubt it. No way Felix makes the top-5.


You are comparing Marion Jones and Silke Moeller to Allyson Felix ?.. Is that a joke ? Just to clarify are we both talking about the same elfin spectacular, mesmerizingly gracile, spell binding and charming Allyson Felix ? I think Gabriella, mump, you and I had better just pause this discussion until after the 2013 Moscow WC W200m.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Rog » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:25 am

Am I right in thinking she was once engaged to Justin Gatlin? Did they ever get married?
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby batonless relay » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:37 am

user4 wrote:You are comparing Marion Jones and Silke Moeller to Allyson Felix ?.. Is that a joke ? Just to clarify are we both talking about the same elfin ? I think Gabriella, mump, you and I had better just pause this discussion until after the 2013 Moscow WC W200m.

Why wouldn't Felix be compared against women in the event who have been better?


Lastly, you've really been expressing your inner-aaronk about Allyson Felix ("...spectacular, mesmerizingly gracile, spell binding and charming Allyson Felix") ...only your's is worse. This supposed "grace" you keep harping about ... you must be kidding. The goal is to get to the finish line first.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby user4 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:12 am

batonless relay wrote:
user4 wrote:You are comparing Marion Jones and Silke Moeller to Allyson Felix ?.. Is that a joke ? Just to clarify are we both talking about the same elfin ? I think Gabriella, mump, you and I had better just pause this discussion until after the 2013 Moscow WC W200m.

Why wouldn't Felix be compared against women in the event who have been better?


Lastly, you've really been expressing your inner-aaronk about Allyson Felix ("...spectacular, mesmerizingly gracile, spell binding and charming Allyson Felix") ...only your's is worse. This supposed "grace" you keep harping about ... you must be kidding. The goal is to get to the finish line first.


For starters, Jones was a cheater. Secondly I notice that you bifurcated the descriptor "elfin spectactuar" !! .. The serious problem in doing that is that this phrase is so much more than the sum of its parts and that is very important. It is like a certain sprinter that is so much more than the statistical sum of her times... just sayn.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby batonless relay » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:32 am

user4 wrote:
batonless relay wrote:
user4 wrote:You are comparing Marion Jones and Silke Moeller to Allyson Felix ?.. Is that a joke ? Just to clarify are we both talking about the same elfin ? I think Gabriella, mump, you and I had better just pause this discussion until after the 2013 Moscow WC W200m.

Why wouldn't Felix be compared against women in the event who have been better?


Lastly, you've really been expressing your inner-aaronk about Allyson Felix ("...spectacular, mesmerizingly gracile, spell binding and charming Allyson Felix") ...only your's is worse. This supposed "grace" you keep harping about ... you must be kidding. The goal is to get to the finish line first.


For starters, Jones was a cheater. Secondly I notice that you bifurcated the descriptor "elfin spectactuar" !! .. The serious problem in doing that is that this phrase is so much more than the sum of its parts and that is very important. It is like a certain sprinter that is so much more than the statistical sum of her times... just sayn.

I am not doubting that Marion was a cheat, it's that you don't know who ELSE was a cheater other than Jones so you can't denigrate Jones dominance or performances and at the same time elevate the others. I know that you know that Marion never failed a test where the B confirmed the A.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby user4 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:42 am

batonless relay wrote:I am not doubting that Marion was a cheat, it's that you don't know who ELSE was a cheater other than Jones so you can't denigrate Jones dominance or performances and at the same time elevate the others. I know that you know that Marion never failed a test where the B confirmed the A.


Thank you, I did not know that ! .. Back to the important issues, Marion Jones never had the elfin magic of Felix. That is just true.
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Re: Sooo, Are We Calling Allyson Felix The Greatest, or...?

Postby Gabriella » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:12 am

batonless relay wrote:Top 5? Don't know where? Is she better than Ottey? No. Marion Jones Pre-99? No. Gwen Torrence? Hell no. Flojo? No. Wockel? No. Koch? No. Gohr? Hmmm. Moeller? I doubt it. No way Felix makes the top-5.


I'm talking top 5 of all time over 200m. Her medal tally is better than all of the above, though there is an argument for Wockel and Koch because of their Olympic/World Cup wins respectively.

Felix has been in the top 2 over 200m for the last 9 years, 5 x number 1 and 4 x number 2. She has been the dominant female sprinter for near on a decade. Greater than SAFP, even though the latter has double 100 gold, as Felix's dominance extends back another Olympic cycle. (VCB is for now removed from the equation)

She will never get the WR, but she is now the 4th fastest of all time. Her win-loss record against the worlds elite is outstanding. What she lacks is fast times overall. She races too sparingly. And it's hard to compare her to past greats for a variety of reasons. But she is right up there as one of the greatest over 200m ever.
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