Marlow. When Gutowski lost his WR because the pole followed him into the pit, the pole would have had to have been of lesser length, otherwise the pole couldn't have followed him into the pit. What was the length of the longest poles? Old photos are needed for confirmation, but a lot of guys were jumping higher than the top of their poles. I think you have to go back even before the pre-Wamberdam days to find guys who weren't jumping higher than the tops of their poles. However, they weren't holding at the tops of their poles. Didn't Roberto Quercetani cover the vault in one of his books? Anyone out there have it and have the spare time?
Is there a listing of all-time non glass vaulters. From what I can gather the top six were: Bob Gutowski 15'9-3/4" - 1957, pole under bar Don Bragg 15'9-1/2" - 1959, Indoors from board runway Corny Wamberdam 15'8-1/2" - 1943, Indoors from board runway Jon Cramer 15'8-1/2" 1962 Ron Morris 15'8" 1961 Bob Richards 15'6" - 1957, Indoors from board runway
Jim Brewer was a glass vaulter from back in high school. There is a 1957 picture of him in T&Fn with his glass pole bending. I think Henry Wadswoth did 15'4 at the 1961 AAU before he switched to glass. As I recall Bragg finished 13th at that meet with a height of 15', so that some of those finishing above him probably were on steel or aluminum. Unless if he did something in 1962 that was Morris' pre-glass best. I believe he switched about six weeks prior to winning the AAU in 1962. Don Laz was way before I followed the sport. I don't know about what poles Jim Graham, J.D. Martin, Aubrey Dooley, George Mattos, George Roubanis. and Rolando Cruz used and when but I believe Roubanis used glass in the '56 Olympics. I don't think that Eeles Landstrom ever bested 15 feet.
Many others can, and have already, commented on that question. There's no specific answer, as it was evolutionary. I've already corrected some misconceptions over "sand" prevailing right up until FibreGlass "kicked in". Not so, as we had spong-filled nets for both HJ and PV at USC, in the late 50s, when Jim Brewer was using glass, if not (yet) Capt. Ron Morris, who made the switch prior to OlySilver (60?).
For a long time after the fully-covered "pits" were developed, PV still lacked full protection all the way back around the box--surely instigated by numerous injuries when vaulters "bailed" (came back down out of failure to make it thru the plane of the Standards), or a pole snapped. It's still plenty scary when a Vaulter comes straight back down; ironically, it's possible to sustain a worse, leg or ankle twisting injury by clipping the edge rather than simply landing on the flat. Calls for even more acrobatics by ever more gymnastic vaulters.
I'll leave to others to provide some approximate dates.
KDFINE wrote:I think you have to go back even before the pre-Wamberdam days to find guys who weren't jumping higher than the tops of their poles.
I remember pictures of guys in the 50s on steel poles and they held down a full foot and a half from the top. I supposed it was because the poles were so heavy they needed some leverage.
As for the old pits, I remember those old 'Clould 9' pits before the modern types. They were just bags of air with fans inflating them. You could hit bottom pretty easily. My HS had the big nets filled with huge pieces of foam rubber, but as soon as I went off to college, they had a pit not unlike modern ones (without the buns up front or anything around the standards).
I just had to price a new pit for my school, to relace the (superb) UCS 1700 we've had for 12 years, and they're $16,000 now (with cover and box pads and shipping)! That's a lot of bake sales and car washes!
I should've written Team Captain, which I'm pretty sure he was. In any case, he was my Freshman Coach. Dunno what financial arrangements, if any, they made for that, and he was already married at the time; but he likely would've volunteered anyway. [Nice to see their grown daughter running the office at OnTrack in Burbank.]
So Morris Silvered on Aluminum. Do you know his respective marks with Alum and Glass? The switch wouldn't have been that difficult in 1962, as there was not yet the pronounced bend. In fact, I'm wondering whether they'd even gone to the wide grip. Hmm, maybe that's why I never improved less than 1 foot on a relatively stiff glass pole; I still shifted hands together. In fact, Ron had me extending the pole way out prior to the plant--not something that's done anymore, but it felt right under those conditions, and we're talking 12 ft...
KDFINE wrote:What was the length of the longest poles? Old photos are needed for confirmation, but a lot of guys were jumping higher than the top of their poles. I think you have to go back even before the pre-Wamberdam days to find guys who weren't jumping higher than the tops of their poles. However, they weren't holding at the tops of their poles.
The other week I browsed through some old newspaper stories about Lee Barnes, including this piece about his WR of 14' 1½". It says he normally used a pole of 14 feet 1 inch but jumped the WR on a 13' 11" pole, so in his case the heights and the pole length were pretty much identical; however, it's indicated at least some of his rivals used longer poles.
they held down a full foot and a half from the top. I supposed it was because the poles were so heavy they needed some leverage.
No, no; surely you can see that glass vaulters can hold so much higher simply because of the BEND! In effect, once the bend is effected, they're probably holding at similar (effective) heights--as earlier Vaulters were plenty fast, and could jump, too. With the stiff pole, which wasn't that heavy, they held as high as they could manage, then extend another foot and more by swinging up to vertical, extending the arms and pushing off. Lotsa similarities; lotsa diffs. But the initial swing and its timing that was so different from the "dip" and wait for the glass pole to release its stored energy. Metal poles weren't storing any energy to speak of; they were just lever-fulcrums, so to speak.
Ya know, in the same vein as all that silly speculation over throwback Throwing techniques, and LJ-ing w/ Greco-Roman Weights, maybe w/o FibreGlass, Vaulting would've gone the Atlatl route. That's the AmerIndian hinged spear-throwing device that leverages the slingers force by opening up at the top; similar to some Catapults.
KDFINE wrote: I don't know about what poles Jim Graham, J.D. Martin, Aubrey Dooley, George Mattos, George Roubanis. and Rolando Cruz used and when but I believe Roubanis used glass in the '56 Olympics. I don't think that Eeles Landstrom ever bested 15 feet.
I see J.D.Martin about every week during track season.. will ask him about poles of that era.
Dooley was glass. Tork, who I knew as a glass vaulter, was about a 14' vaulter in college prior to that. Dick Plymale of Army improved about 2' on glass. Bob Mathias used a fiberglass pole in their infancy but as I think I implied earlier, my curiosity is about 15' vaulters who did it on bamboo, steel or aluminum. There also must have been a "Russian" or two.
Also, when you become commissioner, let's go back to sawdust instead of foam and place a vertical limit on how tall the sawdust can be, so when a jumper approaches those high bars they look properly high!
I googled Henry Wadsworth the other day and answered some of my own questions from following it to "Pole Vaulters with Bamboo, Metal." The ten highest metal vaulters were reported as: Bob Gutowski 4.826 15'9-3/4" June 14, 1957 Austin Don Bragg 4.82i 15'9-1/4" Feb. 13, 1959 Philadelphia John Cramer 4.78 15'8" June 23, 1962 Walnut Ron Morris 4.775 15'8" June 24, 1961 New York Bob Richards 4.724i 15'6" Feb. 9, 1957 New York Manfred Preussger 4.70 15'5" Oct. 14, 1961 Magdeburg Jim Graham 4.699 15'5" May 19, 1959 J.D. Martin 4.673 15'4" May 21, 1960 Ames Henry Wadsworth 4.673 15'4" June 21, 1961 New York Janis Krassovski 4.65i 15'3-1/8" Feb. 17, 1960 (also spelled Krasovskis)
I don't believe that this list is totally accurate. My 1962 edition of Wally Donovan's "All Time Indoor Track and Field Record Book" reports that J.D. Martin jumped 15'7-1/4" indoors at the 1960 indoor Big 8 meet, and Henry Wadsworth vaulted 15'5" indoors at Milwaukee in 1961, both prior to their outdoor bests listed above.
The correct date for the New York AAU meet of 1961 where Morris and Wadsworth vaulted 15'8 and 15'4 respectively was June 24th. My bad handwriting has prevented me from listing the locale of Martin's and Krasovskis' (as I recall his name) best.
Don Laz vaulted 15'3" indoors in 1953. Dave Clark jumped 15'3" for 3rd at the 1960 Olympic Trials but i'm not sure on what type of pole (Wadsworth was 4th at 15'3"). John Pennel jumped 15'0-1/4" as a college freshman on aluminum, which suggests that he could have been the first over 16' if fiberglass hadn't have taken over. The only vaulter over 15' with bamboo was Corny Wamberdam, with a best of 4.785i or 15'8'1/4" on March 20, 1943 in Chicago. Bill Sefton and Earle Meadows both vaulter 4.546 or 14'11" in L.A. on May 29, 1937.
I would bet some of Gerard Dumas's works have info on highest ever on steel and aluminum. I have one of his books from back in the early 80s but I think he has updated stuff since then on the pole vault.
In again answering one of my own questions, Rolando Cruz was using fiberglass at the 1956 Olympics. I googled his name and was referred again to PoleVaultPower.com's trivia question of wo was the first to use glass at the Olympics. Mathias as mentioned previously used it in 1952, and then in 1956 it was Roubanis (no surprise) and Cruz (a surprise to me). Bambam, the link references Gerard Dumas' works which you mention.
I'm finished. I just googled Jerry Welbourn and found "The 15 Foot ERA", which is an article by Gerard Dumas. It starts with the first 253 vaults of 15' or greater, ending in October, 1957. These were accomplished by ten men. Dumas also reports the type of pole used. Wamberdam on bamboo; then Laz, Richards, Cooper, Bragg, Gutowski, Welbourn, Morris, Joe Rose all on metal; and Jim Brewer on glass, He then extends the list to the first 120 men to vault 15 feet. To my surprise I found that Wadsworth was a glass vaulter. The other metal vaulters were Landstrom, Graham, Bulatov, Martin, Mattos, Schwarz, Krassovskis, Jeitner, Pennel, Cramer, Clark, Preussger, Kristov, Kimmel, Jeisy, Petrenko, and lastly Plymale. Something I read earlier makes me suspicious of the accuracy of Plymale. Now its time to get curious about something else.