What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?


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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby LopenUupunut » Fri May 31, 2013 12:06 pm

KDFINE wrote:What was the length of the longest poles? Old photos are needed for confirmation, but a lot of guys were jumping higher than the top of their poles. I think you have to go back even before the pre-Wamberdam days to find guys who weren't jumping higher than the tops of their poles. However, they weren't holding at the tops of their poles.
The other week I browsed through some old newspaper stories about Lee Barnes, including this piece about his WR of 14' 1½". It says he normally used a pole of 14 feet 1 inch but jumped the WR on a 13' 11" pole, so in his case the heights and the pole length were pretty much identical; however, it's indicated at least some of his rivals used longer poles.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Jackaloupe » Fri May 31, 2013 12:49 pm

they held down a full foot and a half from the top. I supposed it was because the poles were so heavy they needed some leverage.

No, no; surely you can see that glass vaulters can hold so much higher simply because of the BEND! In effect, once the bend is effected, they're probably holding at similar (effective) heights--as earlier Vaulters were plenty fast, and could jump, too. With the stiff pole, which wasn't that heavy, they held as high as they could manage, then extend another foot and more by swinging up to vertical, extending the arms and pushing off. Lotsa similarities; lotsa diffs. But the initial swing and its timing that was so different from the "dip" and wait for the glass pole to release its stored energy. Metal poles weren't storing any energy to speak of; they were just lever-fulcrums, so to speak.

Ya know, in the same vein as all that silly speculation over throwback Throwing techniques, and LJ-ing w/ Greco-Roman Weights, maybe w/o FibreGlass, Vaulting would've gone the Atlatl route. That's the AmerIndian hinged spear-throwing device that leverages the slingers force by opening up at the top; similar to some Catapults.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby lonewolf » Fri May 31, 2013 4:15 pm

KDFINE wrote: I don't know about what poles Jim Graham, J.D. Martin, Aubrey Dooley, George Mattos, George Roubanis. and Rolando Cruz used and when but I believe Roubanis used glass in the '56 Olympics. I don't think that Eeles Landstrom ever bested 15 feet.

I see J.D.Martin about every week during track season.. will ask him about poles of that era.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:26 am

Dooley was glass. Tork, who I knew as a glass vaulter, was about a 14' vaulter in college prior to that. Dick Plymale of Army improved about 2' on glass. Bob Mathias used a fiberglass pole in their infancy but as I think I implied earlier, my curiosity is about 15' vaulters who did it on bamboo, steel or aluminum. There also must have been a "Russian" or two.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby mrbowie » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:56 pm

Also, when you become commissioner, let's go back to sawdust instead of foam and place a vertical limit on how tall the sawdust can be, so when a jumper approaches those high bars they look properly high!

I am all for each of your suggestions.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby mrbowie » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:58 pm

And while you are at it, how about making cowbells obsolete so they can be employed for originally intended use, as instruments in SNL sketches and music videos.

I realize I need not mention this, but I really do think that Brasky--yes, Bill Brasky--would approve.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:26 am

I googled Henry Wadsworth the other day and answered some of my own questions from following it to "Pole Vaulters with Bamboo, Metal." The ten highest metal vaulters were reported as:
Bob Gutowski 4.826 15'9-3/4" June 14, 1957 Austin
Don Bragg 4.82i 15'9-1/4" Feb. 13, 1959 Philadelphia
John Cramer 4.78 15'8" June 23, 1962 Walnut
Ron Morris 4.775 15'8" June 24, 1961 New York
Bob Richards 4.724i 15'6" Feb. 9, 1957 New York
Manfred Preussger 4.70 15'5" Oct. 14, 1961 Magdeburg
Jim Graham 4.699 15'5" May 19, 1959
J.D. Martin 4.673 15'4" May 21, 1960 Ames
Henry Wadsworth 4.673 15'4" June 21, 1961 New York
Janis Krassovski 4.65i 15'3-1/8" Feb. 17, 1960
(also spelled Krasovskis)

I don't believe that this list is totally accurate. My 1962 edition of Wally Donovan's "All Time Indoor Track and Field Record Book" reports that J.D. Martin jumped 15'7-1/4" indoors at the 1960 indoor Big 8 meet, and Henry Wadsworth vaulted 15'5" indoors at Milwaukee in 1961, both prior to their outdoor bests listed above.

The correct date for the New York AAU meet of 1961 where Morris and Wadsworth vaulted 15'8 and 15'4 respectively was June 24th. My bad handwriting has prevented me from listing the locale of Martin's and Krasovskis' (as I recall his name) best.

Don Laz vaulted 15'3" indoors in 1953. Dave Clark jumped 15'3" for 3rd at the 1960 Olympic Trials but i'm not sure on what type of pole (Wadsworth was 4th at 15'3"). John Pennel jumped 15'0-1/4" as a college freshman on aluminum, which suggests that he could have been the first over 16' if fiberglass hadn't have taken over.
The only vaulter over 15' with bamboo was Corny Wamberdam, with a best of 4.785i or 15'8'1/4" on March 20, 1943 in Chicago. Bill Sefton and Earle Meadows both vaulter 4.546 or 14'11" in L.A. on May 29, 1937.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby bambam » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:59 pm

I would bet some of Gerard Dumas's works have info on highest ever on steel and aluminum. I have one of his books from back in the early 80s but I think he has updated stuff since then on the pole vault.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:07 am

In again answering one of my own questions, Rolando Cruz was using fiberglass at the 1956 Olympics. I googled his name and was referred again to PoleVaultPower.com's trivia question of wo was the first to use glass at the Olympics. Mathias as mentioned previously used it in 1952, and then in 1956 it was Roubanis (no surprise) and Cruz (a surprise to me). Bambam, the link references Gerard Dumas' works which you mention.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:56 am

I'm finished. I just googled Jerry Welbourn and found "The 15 Foot ERA", which is an article by Gerard Dumas. It starts with the first 253 vaults of 15' or greater, ending in October, 1957. These were accomplished by ten men. Dumas also reports the type of pole used. Wamberdam on bamboo; then Laz, Richards, Cooper, Bragg, Gutowski, Welbourn, Morris, Joe Rose all on metal; and Jim Brewer on glass, He then extends the list to the first 120 men to vault 15 feet. To my surprise I found that Wadsworth was a glass vaulter. The other metal vaulters were Landstrom, Graham, Bulatov, Martin, Mattos, Schwarz, Krassovskis, Jeitner, Pennel, Cramer, Clark, Preussger, Kristov, Kimmel, Jeisy, Petrenko, and lastly Plymale. Something I read earlier makes me suspicious of the accuracy of Plymale. Now its time to get curious about something else.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby bambam » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:14 pm

Just looked at that Dumas article. Dumas is definitely the guy for this type question. That should end this question.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby bambam » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:14 pm

Here's thaht link, in case in anyone wants it:

http://polevaultcanada.ca/records/15foot.txt
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby catson52 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:35 pm

bambam wrote:Here's thaht link, in case in anyone wants it:

http://polevaultcanada.ca/records/15foot.txt


Thanks, a very interesting article. Quite a few names of interest in the last set including F and M clearances - that I had not heard, or seen in "print" for many years.
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Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby lovetorun » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:32 pm

Thanks for all the interesting, informative info...again, that's one of the main things I love about this board. :)
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