What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?


Forum devoted to track & field items of an historical nature.

What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby lovetorun » Tue May 28, 2013 7:13 am

Is it Don Bragg or Bob Gutowski and around 15-9 or 10? No one ever jumped 16 feet without fiberglass, right?

I personally think that the fiberglass pole changed the event...from pole vault to pole catapult. But, don't get me wrong...I still love it, and the change I think brought more sensation and therefore interest in the event.
lovetorun
 
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:48 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Tue May 28, 2013 8:51 am

lovetorun wrote:I personally think that the fiberglass pole changed the event

No way!! :D
I came to PVing just as fiberglass was getting really good (mid-60s). I learned on steel poles and was very very thankful when fiberglass came, because it went from a rather brute force event to one that recompensed technique more. The big muscular boys didn't get better; I did. :wink:
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Jackaloupe » Tue May 28, 2013 9:53 am

Mid-60s indeed! In the late 50s, Fiberglass poles didn't really bend much more than Bamboo, which'd been virtually discarded for either Aluminum or those dastardly, tapering Swedish Steel poles that were even stiffer than Aluminum. Our well-intentioned HS Track Coach--a fine Physics and Chem Teacher who did apply certain of the FORMER (only a thermos of Lipton's Tea for Meets;~) to sport--got one for the school. I never improved my early 11 ft., as a 15 yr. old Soph, but did win NJ State (Group I, small schools), while Don Bragg, of Penns Grove (Group III) was leaping a prodigious 13 ft.!
At USC, Ron Morris (and Decathlete, 14 ft'er Gene Freudenthal) were still using Aluminum, with Arizona HS RecordHolder, Jim Brewer, used FibreGlass. Brewer never had Morris's speed, so that worked out to keep them close; when RM went on to Silver in Rome, he had migrated to FibreGlass (and now sells 'em all @ InSport).

Morris was my Freshman Coach at USC and Gutowski (Oxy) was always friendly and helpful, but I only improved to 12 ft., never actually effecting a true bend, just a li'l buckle you could barely feel.
And that was when most were still shifting the hands together, exacty the same as with all the predecessors to Bamboo. I'd venture to say that it was the change to the wide (constant, unshifting) grip that literally launched FibreGlass vaulting: It's the drive of the lower hand that initiates the bend, right?

Silly anecdote from MastersTrack (Age 50-ish): At the Potomac Valley Games, I was doing 6-7 events incl. PV. I took my first jump @ the usual 7 ft., was dismayed to hear, "Foul Jump", and even more so to have a novice Official inform me I'd moved my hand. No verbal explanation was likely to work, so I just regripped the pole w/ both hands close (the low height made that feasible) and cleared the bar again.
Finding a Rule Book at the Officials Table, I was able to pinpoint the explicit proscription against moving the UPPER hand (w/ no mention of the lower hand)--a rule to preclude Volzing, named for Dave Volz, who'd finagled a hand-over-hand (1 or 2 iterations) climb, the inverse of a gymnastic Rope Climb (yet another event of yesteryear, but still great for training, when you can find a rope)
Jackaloupe
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby mcgato » Tue May 28, 2013 10:01 am

Jackaloupe wrote:...a rule to preclude Volzing, named for Dave Volz, who'd finagled a hand-over-hand (1 or 2 iterations) climb, the inverse of a gymnastic Rope Climb (yet another event of yesteryear, but still great for training, when you can find a rope)
I don't think that was Volz. Volz was famous for being able to put a falling bar back on the standard or steadying a shaking bar with his hand.
mcgato
 
Posts: 1605
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Hoboken

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Tue May 28, 2013 10:02 am

Jackaloupe wrote:It's the drive of the lower hand that initiates the bend, right?

It's not a 'drive' so much as keeping resistance with the lower arm so you 'create space' away from the pole, as opposed to the collapse of both arms in the swing of straight-vaulting. That concept was a real BEE-yotch to us that were trying to switch from straight to bend (which I didn't fully accomplish till I was in my 40s as a Masters vaulter!). I would love to here how those first 'benders' came up with the 'new' fiberglass technique, since it was so counter-intuitive to me. Must have been some marvelous trial-and-error in those early days. Where is OldVaulter??!!
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue May 28, 2013 10:37 am

If and when I become Dictator of the World and/or Dictator of Track & Field, the HJ Flop, PV Fiber Glass Pole, and SP Spin will be outlawed.
dukehjsteve
 
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Fishers, IN

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Jackaloupe » Tue May 28, 2013 10:45 am

so counter-intuitive to me. Maybe from an actual PV-er perspective, but basic Mechanics have the lower hand as fulcrum (I still see it as "driving", provided by the body's forward speed converting horizontal momentum into vertical), with the upper hand/arm pulling down (pulling body up, aided by the still-present Swing).

As for swing, some insight may be gained from the mechanics of the simple Gymnast's Kip: the smooth maneuver that brings her up to the high bar prior to launching into a Giant Swing or whatever. The key to a Kip is to wait for the Center of Gravity to swing back, behind the vertical plane; at that point, the then-piked legs thrust downward as the extended arms give a (minor) boost--all in the direct of back-and-up. Try it while the COG is still ahead of the bar and it simply won't work: the leg force will drive you the wrong way.
I was inspired to find out how it worked at a USC Football game: a postgame reveler hopped up to the Goal Post traverse and neatly kipped right up. It's truly effortless once you get the "hang" of it; the opposite is the MuscleUp, awkward and often ineffective, calling for much more actual strength.
Jackaloupe
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Tue May 28, 2013 12:21 pm

To answer the original question, Bob Gutowski's best was 15'9-3/4 or 4.82. It wasn't ratified because the pole went below the bar, which is no longer the rule. Does anyone recall when the rule was changed and the rationale for it?
Don Bragg's best indoors was 15'-9-1`/2 or 4.81, and his best outdoors was 15'-9-1/4 or 4.80.
Bragg was one of those big muscular guy's that Marlow refers to. However Gutowski was 6'0 tall and weighed 150 and Ron Morris with a best of 15'8 was 5'10 and 154. I couldn't find how big John Cramer (15'8+) was. He may have been taller than Morris but no one was as big as Bragg. Earlier, Bob Richards wasn't very tall. I don't know about Wamberdam. So while Bragg was the WR holder and the last non-glass record holder and Olympic Champion, maybe the big muscular guys didn't have a lock on the pre-glass era. Consider too that John Pennel wasn't particularly large and he had a best non-glass vault of over 15 feet. Perhaps if the glass poles hadn't have taken over, maybe he could have been the first over 16 feet. I've always felt that the race to 16 feet was co-opted by fibre-glass pole. Just as guys were getting close it became "easy." Hey, its still out there for someone to become the first over 16' on the old implement!
KDFINE
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby runforlife » Tue May 28, 2013 12:52 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:If and when I become Dictator of the World and/or Dictator of Track & Field, the HJ Flop, PV Fiber Glass Pole, and SP Spin will be outlawed.

Wow, that's pretty dramatic, don't you think, dhjs? Talk about old school.
runforlife
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Drake Relays: finish line - row 1

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby booond » Tue May 28, 2013 12:59 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:If and when I become Dictator of the World and/or Dictator of Track & Field, the HJ Flop, PV Fiber Glass Pole, and SP Spin will be outlawed.


Instead of the hammer we'll go back to the mace or the flail.
booond
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:25 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby dukehjsteve » Tue May 28, 2013 1:32 pm

runforlife wrote:
dukehjsteve wrote:If and when I become Dictator of the World and/or Dictator of Track & Field, the HJ Flop, PV Fiber Glass Pole, and SP Spin will be outlawed.

Wow, that's pretty dramatic, don't you think, dhjs? Talk about old school.



What the whatever, let's also go back to cinder tracks, and holes instead of starting blocks !

Oh, and get rid of those awful heavy pink crossbars. They are too forgiving . I'm serious about this one.

And tell PV'ers to stop crying about Volzing being nixed, and the pegs being shortened. Just CLEAR the damn thing ! Serious about this one too.
dukehjsteve
 
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Fishers, IN

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby JayIsMe » Tue May 28, 2013 2:44 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:Oh, and get rid of those awful heavy pink crossbars. They are too forgiving . I'm serious about this one.

And tell PV'ers to stop crying about Volzing being nixed, and the pegs being shortened. Just CLEAR the damn thing ! Serious about this one too.


And no hitting the hurdles either, right? :)
JayIsMe
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Jackaloupe » Tue May 28, 2013 2:57 pm

Instead of the hammer we'll go back to the mace or the flail.booond

If they readopt the Scottish Hammer, would it still be on a flexible cane (wonder if anyone objected to that)? And could they run up, as in current Highland Games, instead of being confined to a circle?

And maybe LJ'ers could carry weights like ancient Greeks, to toss back at takeoff--the moral here being that some of the older techniques entailed advantages long since outlawed.
Jackaloupe
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby user4 » Tue May 28, 2013 3:35 pm

Watching videos of Don Bragg vaulting pre-fiberglass, one can see that the event is fundamentally a different event today, with a totally different kind of athlete. This is one change that yielded great advantages as we would not see the kind of female vaulting that we do without the advent of fiberglass.
user4
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby lonewolf » Tue May 28, 2013 3:46 pm

Jackaloupe wrote:IAnd maybe LJ'ers could carry weights like ancient Greeks, to toss back at takeoff--.

I have always wondered about that...I think they used them in the Standing Broad Jump.
We used to goof around with them but never got the hang of it..apparently.
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8814
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Tue May 28, 2013 6:39 pm

Jackaloupe wrote:so counter-intuitive to me. Maybe from an actual PV-er perspective, but basic Mechanics have the lower hand as fulcrum (I still see it as "driving", provided by the body's forward speed converting horizontal momentum into vertical), with the upper hand/arm pulling down (pulling body up, aided by the still-present Swing).

As Greg Hull often points out, there is zero 'pulling', just pushing. Even the rowing action near the top is not pulling; it's just keeping the body next to the pole as it's swinging up off the top of the pole.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Jackaloupe » Tue May 28, 2013 8:40 pm

OK, Maybe I'm dense, but how do you get from hanging below your handhold to pushing off well above it w/o pulling somewhere along the way--however enhanced by the spring-load of the pole that so greatly accelerates the upward motion. I'm simply saying that SOME pulling occurs along the way; to say there's "zero" sounds like a coaching technique (maxim) to emphasize how little there is, relatively.
Jackaloupe
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Wed May 29, 2013 3:48 am

Jackaloupe wrote:OK, Maybe I'm dense, but how do you get from hanging below your handhold to pushing off well above it w/o pulling somewhere along the way--however enhanced by the spring-load of the pole that so greatly accelerates the upward motion. I'm simply saying that SOME pulling occurs along the way; to say there's "zero" sounds like a coaching technique (maxim) to emphasize how little there is, relatively.

As Coach Hull describes it, rowing feels like pulling, but done correctly it's just the momentum of the swing.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby tandfman » Wed May 29, 2013 7:38 am

user4 wrote:Watching videos of Don Bragg vaulting pre-fiberglass, one can see that the event is fundamentally a different event today, with a totally different kind of athlete. This is one change that yielded great advantages as we would not see the kind of female vaulting that we do without the advent of fiberglass.

Would dictator dukehjsteve allow women to pole vault at all? :)
tandfman
 
Posts: 15041
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby user4 » Wed May 29, 2013 7:38 am

Which PV athletes from the modern era (post 1964) could have been successful with the old metal pole. I think Bubka could have been.
user4
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Wed May 29, 2013 7:47 am

user4 wrote:Which PV athletes from the modern era (post 1964) could have been successful with the old metal pole. I think Bubka could have been.

Wouldn't ya love to see a real comp with metal poles? PVers are such weird people that they would jump (pun!) at the chance to have a straight-pole competition. No man today would get near 15-feet, mostly because of lack of 'technique'.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Wed May 29, 2013 10:25 am

user4 asks which of the modern era vaulters could have been successful with the metal poles. As I posted earlier, Pennel, best known for what he achieved on fiberglass, went over 15' with the metal pole. But he learned on pre-glass the poles. I suppose the modern era should not be defined as post 1964, (or 1962 when the lists became dominated by fiberglass vaulters) but some time later when vaulters hadn't any previous extensive experience on metal.
KDFINE
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby lovetorun » Wed May 29, 2013 10:32 am

KDfine...thanks for asking my post question.
lovetorun
 
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:48 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby dukehjsteve » Wed May 29, 2013 10:42 am

tandfman wrote:
user4 wrote:Watching videos of Don Bragg vaulting pre-fiberglass, one can see that the event is fundamentally a different event today, with a totally different kind of athlete. This is one change that yielded great advantages as we would not see the kind of female vaulting that we do without the advent of fiberglass.

Would dictator dukehjsteve allow women to pole vault at all? :)



Absolutely yes ! I love the PV. I just think fibre glass poles are gimmicks.
dukehjsteve
 
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Fishers, IN

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby marknhj » Wed May 29, 2013 10:50 am

dukehjsteve wrote:Absolutely yes ! I love the PV. I just think fibre glass poles are gimmicks.

What about the long jump? Would you say hell to contemporary PC considerations and revert back to calling it the broad jump? :D
marknhj
 
Posts: 5070
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Wed May 29, 2013 11:02 am

KDFINE wrote:Pennel, best known for what he achieved on fiberglass, went over 15' with the metal pole.

Pennel was the central figure in the straight-to-bending revolution and would have been a champion either way. In 1963 he and others obliterated the WR numerous times.

His progression (c/o wiki)

1957 (15yo, HS soph) 11-3
1958 12-6
1959 13-7
1960 NELa Fr 15-0.
1961 14-8 straight, 15-0 fiberglass in Dec
1962 15-4 indoors, no better outdoors
1963, indoors 15-7.25, Outdoors 17-0.75 (!!!)
1964 (injured, 16-8.25)
1965 17-3.75
1966 17-6
1969 17-10.25
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby oldtimer2 » Wed May 29, 2013 8:15 pm

15'9 1/4 on steel Don Bragg, Stanford, July 2, 1960. I saw it. Before that 15'8 1/4 on aluminum pole by Bob Gutowski at Palo Alto April 27, 1957. Before that read "Strength & Speed" by Dale Harder and find out best in bamboo, and hardwood set in 1883.
oldtimer2
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby gh » Thu May 30, 2013 5:06 am

After Steve Smith became the first 18-footer indoors I recall at one point he embarked on a mission to become the first non-glass 16-footer. As I recall, he didn't work at it too long before deciding it just wasn't in his grasp (at least not without way too much work).
gh
 
Posts: 46307
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Thu May 30, 2013 10:14 am

gh wrote:After Steve Smith became the first 18-footer indoors I recall at one point he embarked on a mission to become the first non-glass 16-footer. As I recall, he didn't work at it too long before deciding it just wasn't in his grasp (at least not without way too much work).

Bubka could have steel-vaulted 16'6 to 17', but not much more, IMO.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby dj » Thu May 30, 2013 11:28 am

gh wrote:After Steve Smith became the first 18-footer indoors I recall at one point he embarked on a mission to become the first non-glass 16-footer. As I recall, he didn't work at it too long before deciding it just wasn't in his grasp (at least not without way too much work).


Can;t remember if he accomplished the feat, but I do remember that he was also trying to vault 17 feet while performing his run-up on a skateboard. I don know the he felt the skateboard 17-footer was going to be easier than the non-glass 16-footer.
dj
 
Posts: 6198
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Dave » Thu May 30, 2013 7:39 pm

Obviously, the flexible pole is the most important factor I raising the WR from 15'10" to 20'2", but two things get forgotten, modern pits and video cameras.
Dave
 
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby rhymans » Fri May 31, 2013 12:29 am

In response to KD Fine's question, the rule about the pole being able to pass under the bar became law in 1970. Not only did Gutowski lose a WR in 1957, but John Pennel lost an Olympic medal in 1968, when he cleared 5.40 on his second attempt only to lose out when the pole went under the bar. He would have placed 3rd at worst (and first if he'd made one more height, though that would have required a WR)
rhymans
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Fri May 31, 2013 5:09 am

Thanks rhymans. But what of the reason for the change? Was there too much momentum from the glass poles recoiling with an "unacceptable" proportion of poles following under the bars, thus rendering the vaults invalid?
KDFINE
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 31, 2013 5:17 am

KDFINE wrote:Thanks rhymans. But what of the reason for the change? Was there too much momentum from the glass poles recoiling with an "unacceptable" proportion of poles following under the bars, thus rendering the vaults invalid?

Did anyone back then jump higher than the top of their pole? It may have been a leftover from the days when the poles could knock off the bar, so if it didn't fall back towards the runway, the rule assumed the pole would have knocked the bar off.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Master Po » Fri May 31, 2013 7:01 am

Dave wrote:Obviously, the flexible pole is the most important factor I raising the WR from 15'10" to 20'2", but two things get forgotten, modern pits and video cameras.


I appreciate this discussion: I enjoy the PV, but know little about it in terms of technique, and very little of its history. So, could someone comment on the development of modern PV pits? I am always amazed when viewing old film of athletics to see what athletes were landing in, not only in the PV but also in the HJ. So, when did more modern landing pits get developed for vaulters?
Master Po
 
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: north coast USA

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Fri May 31, 2013 7:41 am

Marlow. When Gutowski lost his WR because the pole followed him into the pit, the pole would have had to have been of lesser length, otherwise the pole couldn't have followed him into the pit. What was the length of the longest poles? Old photos are needed for confirmation, but a lot of guys were jumping higher than the top of their poles. I think you have to go back even before the pre-Wamberdam days to find guys who weren't jumping higher than the tops of their poles. However, they weren't holding at the tops of their poles. Didn't Roberto Quercetani cover the vault in one of his books? Anyone out there have it and have the spare time?

Is there a listing of all-time non glass vaulters. From what I can gather the top six were:
Bob Gutowski 15'9-3/4" - 1957, pole under bar
Don Bragg 15'9-1/2" - 1959, Indoors from board runway
Corny Wamberdam 15'8-1/2" - 1943, Indoors from board runway
Jon Cramer 15'8-1/2" 1962
Ron Morris 15'8" 1961
Bob Richards 15'6" - 1957, Indoors from board runway

Jim Brewer was a glass vaulter from back in high school. There is a 1957 picture of him in T&Fn with his glass pole bending. I think Henry Wadswoth did 15'4 at the 1961 AAU before he switched to glass. As I recall Bragg finished 13th at that meet with a height of 15', so that some of those finishing above him probably were on steel or aluminum. Unless if he did something in 1962 that was Morris' pre-glass best. I believe he switched about six weeks prior to winning the AAU in 1962.
Don Laz was way before I followed the sport. I don't know about what poles Jim Graham, J.D. Martin, Aubrey Dooley, George Mattos, George Roubanis. and Rolando Cruz used and when but I believe Roubanis used glass in the '56 Olympics. I don't think that Eeles Landstrom ever bested 15 feet.
KDFINE
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Jackaloupe » Fri May 31, 2013 7:58 am

Many others can, and have already, commented on that question. There's no specific answer, as it was evolutionary. I've already corrected some misconceptions over "sand" prevailing right up until FibreGlass "kicked in". Not so, as we had spong-filled nets for both HJ and PV at USC, in the late 50s, when Jim Brewer was using glass, if not (yet) Capt. Ron Morris, who made the switch prior to OlySilver (60?).

For a long time after the fully-covered "pits" were developed, PV still lacked full protection all the way back around the box--surely instigated by numerous injuries when vaulters "bailed" (came back down out of failure to make it thru the plane of the Standards), or a pole snapped. It's still plenty scary when a Vaulter comes straight back down; ironically, it's possible to sustain a worse, leg or ankle twisting injury by clipping the edge rather than simply landing on the flat. Calls for even more acrobatics by ever more gymnastic vaulters.

I'll leave to others to provide some approximate dates.
Jackaloupe
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 31, 2013 9:44 am

KDFINE wrote:I think you have to go back even before the pre-Wamberdam days to find guys who weren't jumping higher than the tops of their poles.

I remember pictures of guys in the 50s on steel poles and they held down a full foot and a half from the top. I supposed it was because the poles were so heavy they needed some leverage.

As for the old pits, I remember those old 'Clould 9' pits before the modern types. They were just bags of air with fans inflating them. You could hit bottom pretty easily. My HS had the big nets filled with huge pieces of foam rubber, but as soon as I went off to college, they had a pit not unlike modern ones (without the buns up front or anything around the standards).

I just had to price a new pit for my school, to relace the (superb) UCS 1700 we've had for 12 years, and they're $16,000 now (with cover and box pads and shipping)! :shock: That's a lot of bake sales and car washes! :wink:
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby KDFINE » Fri May 31, 2013 10:28 am

Jackaloupe. I never heard Ron Morris referred to as Capt. Ron Morris. In any case he most certainly did not switch to glass until the spring of 1962.
KDFINE
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: What is highest ever non fiber glass vault record?

Postby Jackaloupe » Fri May 31, 2013 11:27 am

I should've written Team Captain, which I'm pretty sure he was. In any case, he was my Freshman Coach. Dunno what financial arrangements, if any, they made for that, and he was already married at the time; but he likely would've volunteered anyway. [Nice to see their grown daughter running the office at OnTrack in Burbank.]

So Morris Silvered on Aluminum. Do you know his respective marks with Alum and Glass? The switch wouldn't have been that difficult in 1962, as there was not yet the pronounced bend.
In fact, I'm wondering whether they'd even gone to the wide grip. Hmm, maybe that's why I never improved less than 1 foot on a relatively stiff glass pole; I still shifted hands together. In fact, Ron had me extending the pole way out prior to the plant--not something that's done anymore, but it felt right under those conditions, and we're talking 12 ft...
Jackaloupe
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests