Town / City With Most World Records


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Town / City With Most World Records

Postby CMVYV » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:57 am

I just read the following on a Modesto, California site promoting tourism in Central Valley community:

"Modesto is a world class sports city!
When it comes to sports, Modesto is a world-class city!

In fact more world track and field track records have been set in Modesto than any other city in the world. The Coca Cola Modesto Relays, and its predecessors, are the home of 34 world records, the first of which was set in the inaugural Modesto Relays in 1942 by Cornelius Warmerdam in the pole vault."
http://www.visitmodesto.com/visitors/sports.asp

Aside from wondering if this statement is correct, are there other towns or cities that would measure up? Interested in listings of any claims. Also, where is a listing of the 34 records? I can think of several.

Side note: One of the reasons this meet was so successful was the involvement of the local community pitching in so much to fund awards, lodging, etc. and led by Tom Moore, meet director. Interestingly, Eugene, with its Army of volunteers at the Trials, contributes much to the success there; NIKE helps, too!
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:51 pm

A quick glance through the WR Book gives the impression that can't possibly be right.

34 WRs? Hmmm...
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby gh » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:08 pm

I believe Stockholm may have the most.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby LopenUupunut » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:56 pm

Totals might depend on what you count as a WR - does one count unratified WRs, WRs in events IAAF no longer cares about, etc. No way does Modesto come out on top, though.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby CMVYV » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:29 pm

LopenUupunut wrote:Totals might depend on what you count as a WR - does one count unratified WRs, WRs in events IAAF no longer cares about, etc. No way does Modesto come out on top, though.


This is an excellent point. I recall when Brian Sternberg won in Modesto in '63 taking the World Record in the Pole Vault back from John Pennel; who, himself, had topped Sternberg's record.

I did some research and found that at least two of those PV World Records were not shown on the Wiki listing of "Progression of World Records". I suspect that listing includes only the IAAF-ratified World Bests.

I suspect Modesto's fame might relate more to World Bests & World Records combined. And that doesn't even count Phil Shinnick's 27' 4" Long Jump 'World Record' when the wind gauge was not used / monitored!
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:20 pm

The WR Book lists world bests also including Sternberg's and Shinnick's. And I still don't see how Modesto has 34 WRs or World Bests or could be the all time leader.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby kuha » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:23 pm

gh wrote:I believe Stockholm may have the most.


That sounds right. And I seem to recall that London is (still) pretty high up there, too.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:00 pm

Don't have that info......but here's some factors that may cause Modesto to make that claim:

1. Sprint events (and ALL running events, actually) were HAND-timed! So for the 100 YARDS......you might have had five or ten guys running a 9.5 "WR"......or 12 guys at 9.4.
There weren't times like 9.58.....or even 9.587......the time was recorded as 9.6. MUCH easier to "tie" a WR then!!
2. As was noted above, the IAAF doesn't recognize "WR"s that were set over yard distances anymore.....except maybe the one and two mile. So none of those fifteen 9.4's are counted now.
3. The opportunities to set WR's in the US are EXTREMELY limited now...in comparison to the 50's and 60's.....when the Modesto Relays was one of the best meets in the WORLD!!! Back then, you had, I believe, THREE INDOOR meets in Los Angeles alone......EACH of them producing WR's!!
Nowadays, there's maybe three indoor meets in the entire nation......capable of producing WR's!!!

I believe I saw just one Modesto meet....but I remember other SoCal meets.....Coliseum Relays, Compton Invitational being the best.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:22 am

Yes, we know about hand timing :roll: ....and Modesto from my quick look through the Record Book, really comes out a loser. Chicago looks it has more WBs, mostly from the 20's and 30's, and no one here would ever claim, or know, that the Windy City was the WR capital, which I doubt it is.

Frankly, I wouldn't put Modesto for most WRs in California. Again, it is just skimming, but Fresno looks like it has more listings.

PS. It definitely looks between London and Stockholm. And more likely London with all of the 19th century races.

I suspect some PR person in Modesto was trying to think of someway to sell Modesto, and came up with this dubious statistic. 'Hey I found it on the Internet'.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby gh » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:56 pm

I'm guessing that, all things, considered, the Modesto count is indeed in the 30s.

Stockholm's DL website makes this statement: 83 world records have been set here so until 2012 – far more than at any other arena in the world.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby LTS » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:04 pm

A little out of date but according to the 1999 IAAF Progression of World Best Performances and Official World Records, London ranks first in World Record venues for Olympic events, ratified and unratified, men and women, with 113 followed by Moscow with 95 and Los Angeles with 90. If non-olympic and non-current events are included then London leads with 362, followed by Paris with 197, and Stockholm with 150. It's also mentioned that Stockholm's Stadion, the Olympic venue of 1912 is the most prolific venue for records with 86 being set there.

Hopefully, this interesting feature was carried forward to the 2003 and later editions.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:23 am

I remembered one of the editions had a city ranking. I can't find my copy at the moment and have been going by the 1995 edition.

Not surprised London is tops. But that includes a boatload of tracks, White City, Crystal Palace, Tooting Bec, Stanford Bridge and Lillie Bridge, etc.

I still find it hard to believe Modesto has 30+. Certainly not in the sprints.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby rhymans » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:05 am

I will be updating the compilation by city and stadia for the 2015 WR book
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby bambam » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:24 am

rhymans wrote:I will be updating the compilation by city and stadia for the 2015 WR book


Glad to see you're doing the next one, Richard. Why did you not do the last edition?
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:14 am

rhymans wrote:I will be updating the compilation by city and stadia for the 2015 WR book


Jolly Good! Really looking forward to it.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby gh » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:14 am

I'm sure that the Modesto count, by the way, includes Hal Connolly's 1965 California Relays WR in the hammer. That was actually set in Ceres, which is a few miles down the road (given how much Modesto has sprawled since then, maybe they even touch!).

And Richard, here's a fine point to ponder on "stadia"; do you count marks made on "outer fields" (i.e., not inside the stadium proper)? That would kill all the discus marks at Modesto as well, and things like Archie Harris's DT WR at Stanford Stadium.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby rhymans » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:25 pm

For the records count, I think I would include the Modesto/Stanford marks. In the records count I can't see a meet director saying that the event was outside the stadium so wasn't part of the meet. There are so many variables compiling one of these lists that you have to apply what you hope is common sense. When a hand time record is set which was auto-timed as better than the known best is that 2 records or one? [In re-doing the records list I'm taking that as one record]. If a 4x880 relay squad breaks the WR and beats the 4x800m best is that 1 or 2 records (I've taken it as 2). Should all records in the progression be included? - This time I've looked at each event and taken the professional bests in the 19th century and only taken the amateur best when it was better than the pro best at the time. The results are a lot different from the last time the listing was done - and hopefully - a lot more accurate. I'm fairly sure I had the LA Coliseum count wrong last time, and it's very close between the Coliseum and "Stadion" in Stockholm as the best WR venue.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby DoubleRBar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:34 pm

Let's bring back the track to the Los Angeles Coliseum.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby rhymans » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:01 am

I have 31 records as the count for Modesto [30 men's and just 1 women's WR - Dragila]
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby CMVYV » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:53 pm

gh wrote:I'm sure that the Modesto count, by the way, includes Hal Connolly's 1965 California Relays WR in the hammer. That was actually set in Ceres, which is a few miles down the road (given how much Modesto has sprawled since then, maybe they even touch!).

And Richard, here's a fine point to ponder on "stadia"; do you count marks made on "outer fields" (i.e., not inside the stadium proper)? That would kill all the discus marks at Modesto as well, and things like Archie Harris's DT WR at Stanford Stadium.


Ceres & Modesto blend together now. But the HT was part of Modesto; if not the count is: Modesto 33, Ceres 1

As I recall, the Discus Throw was on an adjacent field next to one end of the track. One could walk over from the stands & watch Al Oerter, Rink Babka, etc.

We even got to line the PV runway late into the night as Sternberg battled Pennel in '63.

RE: All the WRs in Modesto... I think most of them were probably Field Events and Relays. I seem to recall multiple discus world records over time.

The Relays used to be held in conjunction with the State of California Junior College Championships....was always a great show!

RE: LA Coliseum. To re-install the track, wouldn't they have to remove some rows of seats? I thought that was the reason they took out the track was get more seats close to the Football Field.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Fortius19 » Fri May 03, 2013 2:26 pm

The now defunct http://www.modestorelays.org webpage had the Modesto WR count at 33.

From: http://web.archive.org/web/20051224081156/http://modestorelays.org/Modesto%20Relays%20World%20Records.htm

Modesto Relay's 33 World Records
more than any other venue in the world!
year set event mark record setter affiliation notes
1942 Pole Vault 15-07 Cornelius Wamerdam Olympic Club
1947 100yd. Dash 9.4 Mel Patton USC
1949 880yd. Relay 1:24.9 Univ. of Southern California
1954 440yd. Relay 40.5 Univ. of Texas one turn
1955 880 yd. Run 1:48.5 Wes Santee Kansas
1955 440yd. Relay 40.2 Univ. of Texas one turn
1955 Javelin Throw 268-02 Bud Held Olympic Club
1956 440yd. Dash 45.8 Jim Lea USCV
1956 440yd. Relay 40.2 Abilene Christian one turn
1956 880yd. Relay 1:24.0 Abilene Christian
1956 Two Mile Relay 7:25.5 Southern Pacific AAU
1957 440yd. Relay 40.0 Univ. of Texas one turn
1958 440yd. Relay 39.7 Abilene Christian one turn
1958 880yd. Relay 1:22.6 Abilene Christian
1959 100yd. Dash 9.3 Roscoe Cook Univ. of Oregon
1959 440yd. Relay 39.6 Univ. of Texas one turn
1960 200yd. Low Hur. 22.1 Don Styrdon Southern Illinois
1961 Long Jump 27-00 Ralph Boston Tenn. A & I
1962 440yd. Relay 40.0 Univ. of Oregon two turn
1963 Pole Vault 16-07 Brian Sternberg Oregon St.
1963 Two Mile Relay 7:18.9 Oregon State College
1963 Long Jump 27-04 Phil Shinnick Univ. of Washington ratified in 2004
1964 440yd. Relay 40.0 Grambling College two turn
1965 Long Jump 27-05 Ralph Boston Striders
1965 Mile Relay 3:04.5 Southern Track Club
1965 Hammer Throw 233-02 Hal Connolly Striders
1966 440yd. Relay 39.6 Southern University
1967 100m Dash 10.0 Jimmy Hines Texas Southern
1967 880yd. Relay 1:22.6 Southern University
1968 Discus Throw 218-04 Jay Sylvester Unattached
1976 100m Dash 9.9 Don Quarrie Jamaica
1981 Discus Throw 233-05 Ben Plucknet West Valley TC
2000 Wm. Pole Vault 15-01 Stacy Dragila Reebok
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Fortius19 » Fri May 03, 2013 2:36 pm

http://www.diamondleague-stockholm.com/ ... m-Stadium/

Above is list of Stockholm WRs. Looked like hosting the 1912 Olys helped.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Fortius19 » Fri May 03, 2013 2:47 pm

So, by my count, WR in events contested today in Oly/WC:

Modesto 12, Stockholm 39
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby Per Andersen » Fri May 03, 2013 3:50 pm

Fortius19 wrote:http://www.diamondleague-stockholm.com/en/Stockholm-Olympic-Stadium/World-Records-at-Stockholm-Stadium/

Above is list of Stockholm WRs. Looked like hosting the 1912 Olys helped.

As it helped Modesto with all these obscure records like 880 relays and soft records like Santee's 880 when the 800 WR was about 2 seconds faster.
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby rhymans » Mon May 06, 2013 3:12 am

You have to exclude from Modesto -

Santee's 1:48.5 for 880y - Lon Spurrier had run 1:47.5 two months earlier
Shinnick's 8.33 - it was never ratified, and will never be ratified retrospectively

So you get back to 31
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Re: Town / City With Most World Records

Postby bambam » Thu May 09, 2013 11:14 am

rhymans wrote:Shinnick's 8.33 - it was never ratified, and will never be ratified retrospectively


Oh boy! I feel a bunch of posts coming on.
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