Sports Science to determine the real greatest athete ever

[Vielleicht]

Most soccer players have very little upper body strength and average or less hand-eye coordination. having said that, they do hit your other criteria quite well

Good point; the criteria to determine the best overall athlete should apply both to lower body and upper body strength/muscular endurance/etc.

Anyone has an idea about how much endurance NFL players have?

[KDFINE]

Yeah, but soccer players have better foot to eye coordination. I doubt that top flight soccer players are lacking in upper body strength, just look at the likes up Didier Drogba and Sol Campbell. I suspect that most soccer players probably could hold their own in pull-ups with participants in other sports.
The idea that "Sports Science" is going to determine the greatest athlete ever on the basis of whatever means that intend to is ludicrous anyway.

[Conor Dary]

Most soccer players have very little upper body strength and average or less hand-eye coordination. having said that, they do hit your other criteria quite well

Good point; the criteria to determine the best overall athlete should apply both to lower body and upper body strength/muscular endurance/etc.

Anyone has an idea about how much endurance NFL players have?

Not much.

[user4]

Most soccer players have very little upper body strength and average or less hand-eye coordination. having said that, they do hit your other criteria quite well

Kyle Rote, a reasonably talented soccer player, did win the Superstars competition a few times. Just saying. What this back and forth points to for me again and again, one name, Thorpe!

[jazzcyclist]

Most soccer players have very little upper body strength and average or less hand-eye coordination. having said that, they do hit your other criteria quite well

Good point; the criteria to determine the best overall athlete should apply both to lower body and upper body strength/muscular endurance/etc.

Anyone has an idea about how much endurance NFL players have?

Defensive backs can probably run a little. By the nature of what they do, they have to be able to. When Bill Arnsparger was the coach at LSU, they concluded their practices with wind sprints, but defensive backs had to typically run at least twice as much as everybody else, and it was common for the other players to see the defensive backs still running after they had showered and were on their way home.

[Marlow]

Anyone has an idea about how much endurance NFL players have?

NFL pre-season camps are no picnic, that's for sure. They go into the season VERY fit. Once the season starts, the regulars get game-fit, which is a specialized kind of fitness, which mere mortals would find insanely difficult to reach, like NBA regulars who can go up and down the court with enormous aerobic AND non-aerobic fitness. As mentioned, Pro soccer midfielders are ridiculous in their ability to sprint, jog, walk, sprint, jog, walk for 90+ minutes.

[jazzcyclist]

Whatever defense has to face Oregon this bowl season will spend a good portion of December running their asses off, and you can take that to the bank.

[Dave]

Whatever defense has to face Oregon this bowl season will spend a good portion of December running their asses off, and you can take that to the bank.

The have scored 70 points so far this afternoon.

[Conor Dary]

Whatever defense has to face Oregon this bowl season will spend a good portion of December running their asses off, and you can take that to the bank.

The have scored 70 points so far this afternoon.

I was thinking about the Ducks as an exception to the fitness rule....On to USC!

And Florida is down by 10 with 7 minutes to go....

[jazzcyclist]

Whatever defense has to face Oregon this bowl season will spend a good portion of December running their asses off, and you can take that to the bank.

The have scored 70 points so far this afternoon.

I was thinking about the Ducks as an exception to the fitness rule....On to USC!

And Florida is down by 10 with 7 minutes to go....

Actually they're down by 8. Final score:

Georgia 17 - Florida 9

By the way Florida beat LSU 14-6, and who can forget LSU's 9-6 OT win over Alabama last year. How is Oregon going to react when they get in a dogfight like this? What are they going to do when they have to face a defense that has the athletes to make a football field seem as small as a basketball court?

[dbirds]

Too bad they can't plug in Ashton eaton as rb or db

[Tuariki]

Most soccer players have very little upper body strength and average or less hand-eye coordination. having said that, they do hit your other criteria quite well

Good point; the criteria to determine the best overall athlete should apply both to lower body and upper body strength/muscular endurance/etc.

Anyone has an idea about how much endurance NFL players have?

Not a lot I dare say. Especially compared to other sports. Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.

However, in saying that, American football is a game that does require that level of fitness. And by the way I am not anti-American football as it is still my favourite game and following division one NCAA football from the bottom of the planet is still my favourite armchair past-time.

The only downside is that I am forced to be a supporter of the Ducks as my alma mater WSU is not exactly a winning team so I then resort to supporting the PAC 12 and so ipso facto "go Oregon".

[Pego]

Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.

You usually know what you are talking about, so I will just ask why you say this? They seem to be pretty fit to me.

[Tuariki]

Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.

You usually know what you are talking about, so I will just ask why you say this? They seem to be pretty fit to me.

The demands of the two games are very different. There is no need for NFL players to have the level of aerobic fitness that an international level rugby player needs. NFL players have plenty of rest time during the game. There is a rest after every play; a lengthy rest when the other team gets the ball as offense and defense swap over; and unlimited substitutions.

NFL players are trained to have an intensive explosive burst of energy usage for a few seconds and then they get to rest. Rugby forwards who are the equivalent of linemen must play pretty much non-stop for 40 minutes each half. It is, IMO, one of the reasons that NFL linemen are much bigger than rugby forwards. Rugby forwards weighing 350 pounds don't make it in rugby as they are just too big and would be unlikely to last the game. The current All Black forwards are the biggest they have ever been but they average about 245 pounds; which is pretty big but next to NFL linemen they are midgets.

The South African Springboks are generally significantly bigger than the All Blacks, averaging
closer to 260 pounds. However, while the the All Blacks often struggle to contain the Boks for the first 60 minutes the All Blacks usually over power them in the last 20 minutes as their aerobic fitness levels come through.

In the past I have often almost (well not really) come to blows with diehard All Black supporters by arguing that if I was a squillionaire and could afford to buy an American rugby team made up of hand picked NFL players, that team, if given the right coach and 12 months, would beat the All Blacks. Basically they would need 12months to learn sufficient of the nuances of the game and to get fit enough to last 80 minutes of continuous activity. At the end of the day I am a pretty firm believer in all other things being equal then the good big guy will nearly always beat the good little guy.

It is why I happen to believe that if the USA wants to win the rugby sevens Olympic Gold in Rio, and the USA gets buy in from all NFL players, I believe that even though NZ is currently the deserved heavy favourite, this mantle would pass to the USA. This is because the USA can put 7 guys on the field who are huge and who are legitimate near 10 second 100m sprinters. Remember sevens rugby is not the full 15 man game. There is probably only a couple of All Blacks who could break 11 seconds for the 100m.

However, it will be a lot harder for the USA to beat the All Blacks in the 15 man game. But the USA has the manpower to do it. But it won't happen because NFL players will not want to take a massive drop in income just to prove a point.

[Marlow]

American rugby team made up of hand picked NFL players,

Take the best running backs, WRs and DBs . . .? The mind boggles.

[Pego]

American rugby team made up of hand picked NFL players,

Take the best running backs, WRs and DBs . . .?

That's what I thought. Even some linebackers and an occasional QB. Linemen that Tuariki targets primarily never crossed my mind.

[gh]

.... Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.....

balderdash!

There are all kinds of fitness freaks in the NFL, even if the nature of the game doesn't require it the same way rugger does.

At any rate, give me a team made up of NFL tight ends and I think they'd run amok in a game of Sevens.

[user4]

.... Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.....

balderdash!

There are all kinds of fitness freaks in the NFL, even if the nature of the game doesn't require it the same way rugger does.

At any rate, give me a team made up of NFL tight ends and I think they'd run amok in a game of Sevens.

Great point, Given a few of those Gronkowski-like, robo-alien-beasts, there are not too many man-sports that they can not dominate. I wonder what the Gronk could do in a reformulated beast-Decathlon where the 35lb weight is added and the 1500m is dropped.

[jazzcyclist]

.... Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.....

balderdash!

There are all kinds of fitness freaks in the NFL, even if the nature of the game doesn't require it the same way rugger does.

At any rate, give me a team made up of NFL tight ends and I think they'd run amok in a game of Sevens.

Great point, Given a few of those Gronkowski-like, robo-alien-beasts, there are not too many man-sports that they can not dominate. I wonder what the Gronk could do in a reformulated beast-Decathlon where the 35lb weight is added and the 1500m is dropped.

I agree with you and gh, but I would opt for athletes like Calvin "Megatron" Johnson rather than ones like Gronk. Megatron would probably match Gronk in all the power events and dominate him in running and jumping events of a decathlon.

As for conditioning, I have a hunch that quite a few NFL cornerbacks can run the 1500 in times comparable to world class decathletes when they're in mid-season form.

[user4]

.... Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.....

balderdash!

There are all kinds of fitness freaks in the NFL, even if the nature of the game doesn't require it the same way rugger does.

At any rate, give me a team made up of NFL tight ends and I think they'd run amok in a game of Sevens.

Great point, Given a few of those Gronkowski-like, robo-alien-beasts, there are not too many man-sports that they can not dominate. I wonder what the Gronk could do in a reformulated beast-Decathlon where the 35lb weight is added and the 1500m is dropped.

I agree with you and gh, but I would opt for athletes like Calvin "Megatron" Johnson rather than ones like Gronk. Megatron would probably match Gronk in all the power events and dominate him in running and jumping events of a decathlon.

As for conditioning, I have a hunch that quite a few NFL cornerbacks can run the 1500 in times comparable to world class decathletes when they're in mid-season form.

I thought my Gronk-like robo beast umbrella more than adequately covered Calvin Johnson but I like your focus.

[Tuariki]

.... Richie McCaw, New Zealand's iconic All Black captain would eat alive every NFL player in the fitness stakes, as would most go the top tier rugby internationals.....

balderdash!

There are all kinds of fitness freaks in the NFL, even if the nature of the game doesn't require it the same way rugger does.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that.

Take the best running backs, WRs and DBs . . .? The mind boggles.

At any rate, give me a team made up of NFL tight ends and I think they'd run amok in a game of Sevens.

I am more inclined to go with Marlow because IMO the skills of sevens are more akin to the skills of WRs and RBs. However, the point is that if the USA sevens coach has the freedom to choose from the whole of the NFL then my money will be on the USA at Rio.

[dbirds]

On ESPN radio today, Brenkus said Bolt and Lewis will be on the track and field. On his twitter account, he also mentioned Ashton Eaton will make it. Also, said Jesse Owens was a finalist (Jim Thorpe will make multi-sport list) but I think he is in a different category. My picks for the final 2 spots are JJK and one of the following: Oerter, Edwin Moses or Michael Johnson. I am thinking Moses right now.

Note: there have been a few international athletes (Comaneci Teofilo Stevenson and Karelin) so there is a chance that there will be someone outside the US. Possibly Bubka? If there is one, I will pick Bubka over Moses.

Note: I voted for Karelin in combat sports.
Still not sure how Gracie was chosen over GSP and Lesnar.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/feature ... tofalltime

[cullman]

Lewis as in Carl Lewis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ5B_x53gQM

[dbirds]

lol that's the one...apparently ESPN is using more of the athlete's athletic ability in their particular sport rather than all-around ability, which I prefer and which Carl apparently does not lol

[dbirds]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/feature ... tofalltime

Track & Field nominees come out tomorrow. Brenkus has been reported saying three of the nominees are Ashton Eaton, Carl Lewis and Usain Bolt. Jesse Owens, Jim Thorpe, Babe Didrikson, Pam Reed and Patrick Makau were nominees in other fields so they will not be here. I am predicting Jackie Joyner-Kersee as one and the 5th between Sergey Bubka, Edwin Moses, Michael Johnson and Al Oerter. I think Oerter has the least chance of the 4 to be included but who knows.

[Marlow]

Ashton Eaton
Jackie Joyner-Kersee

DING DING DING DING

[dbirds]

Michael Johnson got the final slot, no surprise. I think Dan O'Brien, Rafer Johnson, Bob Mathias, Glenn Davis or Edwin Moses would have been better choices. Not to mention Sergey Bubka or Valery Brumel.