the Seoul women's 4x1


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Re: ¶2012 OG: w4x100–United States 40.82 WR !!!!

Postby Pierre-Jean » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:33 am

gh wrote:
skiboo wrote:The 1988 US team probably lost at least 0.7 seconds simply by leaving Gwen Torrence off the second leg, which was run by Sheila Echols in a very slow 10.70.

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/w4x100ok.htm..l...


the pedigree of many splits on that site is highly suspect, particularly since in many cases they don't even add up. Shame when bad data like that is presented as fact.


Different ways of analysing relay.
Split add up when the times are taken when the baton's holder reaches 100m, 200m and 300m points.
Split don't add up when the times are taken when each runner reaches 100m, 200m and 300m points.

The first method is used by former Czech biomech team (in charge of WC'87 and OG'88 IAAF reports)
The second method is used by former DDR biomech team (in charge of WC'93 and WC'09 IAAF reports)

Both biomech teams - highest pedigree - analysed the 37.79 race by French team (former WR in 1990)
Here are the results:
Morinière 10.70 Sangouma 8.77 Trouabal 9.17 Marie-Rose 9.15 (TCH analyse, total 37.79)
Morinière 10.62 Sangouma 8.92 Trouabal 9.28 Marie-Rose 9.21(GDR analyse, total 38.03)
And now to make things more confusing:
Morinière 10.62 Sangouma 8.92 Trouabal 9.28 Marie-Rose 9.21 (times given by the then-French relay coach Jo Maïsetti (not sure if those times are form Omega who used to take splits or if it's from various video measurements made in the staidum by Maïsetti or a mix of both - using the first methods as total is 37.79 - and generally accepted as it was given to the press in the following days after the race and even published in ATFS Annuals)

Hope it cmakes things clearer.
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Re: ¶2012 OG: w4x100–United States 40.82 WR !!!!

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:56 am

mump boy wrote:
Smoke wrote:Are you guys serious?????? The record has not been broken because 1) the teams do not race enough. 2) It has been very rare that this type of quartet has been together since then. That is simply the facts. Practice has been proven to be a joke reason for success and excuse for failure. I would bet a quarter that teams that have national teams drop the stick more than Americans over the years.
Simply a fact of these women being fast (in form) and not dropping the stick.


Nobody was suggesting that US drop the baton more than anyone else !! just that NOBODY is as proficient as the GDR and a number of teams significantly faster on paper have failed the break the record over the years because of poor baton passing

Well said mump. All you have to do is look at how much ground the Americans lost to the Germans in the 1988 race on the second and third exchanges to see what you're talking about. The Americans kept the baton moving on the first exchnage but the Germans kept it moving on all three exchanges.
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Re: the Seoul women's 4x1

Postby Smoke » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:49 am

mump you said they have not practiced enough. My point is, the practice angle is over used and wrong. As you previously stated and are well aware of, the UKA team practice as a unit ALL year long for years. It is a science in the UK and yet, baton mishaps happen. It is not due to lack of practice, it is due to it being a part of the race. You will note that no other event that involves faults, i.e. the jumps, is inundated with endless experts screaming about practice when an athlete blows it on a foul. ONLY in the relays do we pretend drops are 100% avoidable.

On another note, the US women were WAY faster in London than all other teams. Look at the 100 and the 200 at the Games, not pr's. Most notably, Allyson was light years faster than Sherrone. I am just noting that, speed killed that wr, not more practice. Getting the baton around is the goal of the race, drops are an unfortunate aspect. yes they can be avoided but they cannot be eliminated. Its like hitting hurdles, should not happen but it happens
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Re: the Seoul women's 4x1

Postby mump boy » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:04 am

Smoke wrote:mump you said they have not practiced enough. My point is, the practice angle is over used and wrong. As you previously stated and are well aware of, the UKA team practice as a unit ALL year long for years. It is a science in the UK and yet, baton mishaps happen. It is not due to lack of practice, it is due to it being a part of the race. You will note that no other event that involves faults, i.e. the jumps, is inundated with endless experts screaming about practice when an athlete blows it on a foul. ONLY in the relays do we pretend drops are 100% avoidable.

On another note, the US women were WAY faster in London than all other teams. Look at the 100 and the 200 at the Games, not pr's. Most notably, Allyson was light years faster than Sherrone. I am just noting that, speed killed that wr, not more practice. Getting the baton around is the goal of the race, drops are an unfortunate aspect. yes they can be avoided but they cannot be eliminated. Its like hitting hurdles, should not happen but it happens


On the first point i assume you're joking :lol:

We've not once mentioned dropped batons, we're talking about baton speed and practice can and will dramatically maximise speed of changeover

Nobody is disputing this :?
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Re: the Seoul women's 4x1

Postby Flumpy » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:17 am

Smoke wrote:My point is, the practice angle is over used and wrong. As you previously stated and are well aware of, the UKA team practice as a unit ALL year long for years. It is a science in the UK and yet, baton mishaps happen. It is not due to lack of practice, it is due to it being a part of the race.


As the kids say 'I can't, even.............' :shock: :lol: :?
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