Jenner


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Re: Jenner

Postby Rog » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:19 am

Kratschmer was beaten by Thompson in their only meeting in 1980, when Daley set his first world record, and of any decathlete in history Daley Thompson was the supreme competitor. I can't see Kratschmer beating him for gold.

Re the Kardashians, I think Saturday Night Live summed them up pretty succintly by having the Mother say "Kim didn't just get married for $17 million dollars. She did it for attention as well", and Kim wail “All week we’ve been just crying and crying and posing and crying and getting our anuses bleached.”

Or straight to the point - Daniel Craig saying they're "xxxxing idiots".

I think most kids would find Bruce Jenner cool at Halloween and hugely embarrassing at any other time. Not that it would stop Kris pimping them on TV.
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:03 am

user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:16 pm

gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful. Related to this, we might ask what are some events where Jenner today would score higher, I think 110H (+100) is one event where Jenner has great room to improve simply with training gains. Other events where Jenner would move up marginally are 100(+50), LJ(+50), SP(+50), and HJ(+50), PV(+100). Could Jenner be one of those guys that could compete at the elite level at both PV and Deca, I think so.
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Re: Jenner

Postby indigo » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:39 am

user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton ........


Double edged sword - See the current view topic for Adam Nelson in the current forum.
More stringent PED testinging for current performers. Even testing for the "recent" past.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:07 pm

indigo wrote:
user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton ........


Double edged sword - See the current view topic for Adam Nelson in the current forum.
More stringent PED testinging for current performers. Even testing for the "recent" past.


I wasnt even thinking of PEDs. One simply has to look at the financial package/sponsorship level of the athletes. This provides an unimagined (in 1972-76, Oldfield aside!) level of focus and time. Then there is the superior information (of 2012 v 1976) on training for the various events which could be an even greater advantage than any salary. Of course PEDs and PED testing has improved for all athletes in all events and yet the WRs continue to advance, in some cases (100M, 200M) dramatically.
Last edited by user4 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jenner

Postby mrbowie » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:25 pm

Let us not forget one thing about testing--the paramount consideration--one can only test for what one is looking for. So if you don't know what you are looking for, you ain't gonna find it!
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:04 am

user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful.....



Time for a gut check :-)

Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)

Eaton 24*
Šebrle 27
Dvořak 27
O'Brien 26
Thompson 26
Hingsen 26
Clay 28
Nool 31
Freimuth 25
Hardee 25*
(*=score might rise at older age still)

Average age of those 10 men is 26.5

Age of Bruce Jenner when he set his WR? 27.

He wasn't just some fresh-faced kid.

He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.
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Re: Jenner

Postby 4:24-miler » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:42 pm

gh wrote:
user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful.....



Time for a gut check :-)

Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)

Eaton 24*
Šebrle 27
Dvořak 27
O'Brien 26
Thompson 26
Hingsen 26
Clay 28
Nool 31
Freimuth 25
Hardee 25*
(*=score might rise at older age still)

Average age of those 10 men is 26.5

Age of Bruce Jenner when he set his WR? 27.

He wasn't just some fresh-faced kid.

He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.

The 1976 Olympics were the first Olympics I ever watched (I was 8 years old). Bruce Jenner was hyped quite a bit. The narrative being hyped was that Jenner had been training "full time" and preparing to win the gold medal for eight years. That always stuck with me.
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Re: Jenner

Postby kuha » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:31 pm

4:24-miler wrote:The narrative being hyped was that Jenner had been training "full time" and preparing to win the gold medal for eight years. That always stuck with me.


Eight years is a stretch: he only graduated from high school in the spring of 1968. Probably more true that he spent a solid 5 years training for the gold, with the 4 years between Munich and Montreal being truly key. GH is totally correct: Jenner did have the luxury of training full-time--very close in opportunity and attitude to today's best.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:51 pm

gh wrote:
Time for a gut check :-)

Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)

Eaton 24*
Šebrle 27
Dvořak 27
O'Brien 26
Thompson 26
Hingsen 26
Clay 28
Nool 31
Freimuth 25
Hardee 25*
(*=score might rise at older age still)

Average age of those 10 men is 26.5

Age of Bruce Jenner when he set his WR? 27.

He wasn't just some fresh-faced kid.

He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.


That is not a gut check, that is a well placed flamingo kick! :) ... those points are well taken and remove any disagreement regarding the prime age for PRs in the decathlon, it is the late 20s. But just to focus a bit, the point was that Jenner could go over 8800 if he were competing today. Much of the progress in WRs since Jenner are due to the luxuries the modern athlete is afforded. 5 years of the state of the art training and coaching makes a real difference. Conversely, take anyone of those athletes from the above list, give him the career trajectory of Jenner 1970-1976 and ask does he reach the same PR ? .. My guess is that most of them falls somewhere in the 8600 range. OK, maybe Eaton goes 8800 even by those standards. He is a very rare talent.
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Re: Jenner

Postby berkeley » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:08 pm

gh wrote:Bruce had more than one procedure on his face. When his name was still attached to the Bruce Jenner classic in the years after Montréal I use to meet with him annually, and the changes were ongoing.

Ah, the Jenner Classic. Walking distance from my house. Still have the snapshots of Lewis, Ben J., Glance, Calvin Smith and Baptiste lining up 5 yards away ... *sigh*
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Re: Jenner

Postby bad hammy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:13 am

berkeley wrote:Ah, the Jenner Classic. Walking distance from my house. Still have the snapshots of Lewis, Ben J., Glance, Calvin Smith and Baptiste lining up 5 yards away ... *sigh*

Oh yeah, a must-see meet for this area. Loved it, was sad to see it go.
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Re: Jenner

Postby 4:24-miler » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:29 pm

berkeley wrote:
gh wrote:Bruce had more than one procedure on his face. When his name was still attached to the Bruce Jenner classic in the years after Montréal I use to meet with him annually, and the changes were ongoing.

Ah, the Jenner Classic. Walking distance from my house. Still have the snapshots of Lewis, Ben J., Glance, Calvin Smith and Baptiste lining up 5 yards away ... *sigh*

At the 1984 Jenner Classic I got autographs from Edwin Moses and O.J. Simpson, and Wilt Chamberlain walked right by me in the stand. Oh, and I watched Al Orter walk around the field with a discus in his hand. That was pretty heady stuff for a young 15 year old. :P
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Re: Jenner

Postby tandfman » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:18 am

Rog wrote:Re the Kardashians, I think Saturday Night Live summed them up pretty succintly by having the Mother say "Kim didn't just get married for $17 million dollars. She did it for attention as well", and Kim wail “All week we’ve been just crying and crying and posing and crying and getting our anuses bleached.”

Or straight to the point - Daniel Craig saying they're "xxxxing idiots".

I think most kids would find Bruce Jenner cool at Halloween and hugely embarrassing at any other time. Not that it would stop Kris pimping them on TV.

The Jenner-Kardashian party may be over.

http://www.mstarz.com/articles/7075/201 ... -fight.htm
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:31 am

$175 MILLION in play in a possible divorce?! :shock:
Ima gonna hafta get me a reality TV show!
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Re: Jenner

Postby tandfman » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:27 am

Marlow wrote:Ima gonna hafta get me a reality TV show!

Get real. :)
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:53 pm

tandfman wrote:
Marlow wrote:Ima gonna hafta get me a reality TV show!

Get real. :)

I can get as real or as phony as they need me to be! For $175 MILLION, I bet I can compromise ALL my principles!! :wink:
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Re: Jenner

Postby lonewolf » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:51 pm

Shucks, If this is a bidding war, I'll compromise my principals for $174 mill.
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Re: Jenner

Postby bambam » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:03 pm

Marlow wrote:I can get as real or as phony as they need me to be! For $175 MILLION, I bet I can compromise ALL my principles!! :wink:


Most of us would. Back in the 90s in North Carolina, Billy Packer, the basketball announcer, did some terrible commercials for a company called Mr Cash that gave money in exchange for mortgage liens. A terrible idea and he was roasted about it. I heard he gave a talk once to discuss it and said, "Listen - we all have a price. They met my price." May not excuse it but he's likely right.

Old joke - guy in a bar says to beautiful woman, "Would you make love to me for $1 million dollars?" She thinks for a second and says, "Yes, for a million dollars, I'd do that." He then says, "How about $5?" Her reply, "No way. What do you think I am?" His answer, "I've already established that. Now I'm just haggling over the price."
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Re: Jenner

Postby kuha » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:00 pm

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier here, but Jenner went to HS in Newtown, CT.
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:51 pm

yes, his hometown has always been given as Sandy Hook, as I recall.
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Re: Jenner

Postby tandfman » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:56 am

tandfman wrote:The Jenner-Kardashian party may be over.

http://www.mstarz.com/articles/7075/201 ... -fight.htm

Apparently, it is indeed over, at least for now.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wir ... t-20511191
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:02 am

tandfman wrote:
tandfman wrote:The Jenner-Kardashian party may be over.
http://www.mstarz.com/articles/7075/201 ... -fight.htm

Apparently, it is indeed over, at least for now.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wir ... t-20511191

Trying to play out one's life on camera can't be a healthy way to keep relationships 'real'.
Reality TV ain't what it's cracked up to be, which is why I can't bear to watch it.
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Re: Jenner

Postby jamese10452 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:14 pm

Didn't look that bad in 76. neither did the rest of us.

Image
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:36 pm

Marlow wrote:
tandfman wrote:
Marlow wrote:Ima gonna hafta get me a reality TV show!

Get real. :)

I can get as real or as phony as they need me to be! For $175 MILLION, I bet I can compromise ALL my principles!! :wink:


Reminds me of the greatest Groucho Marx quote: (spoken to a gorgeous blonde)

I have principles... and if you dont like them, well I have others.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:38 pm

As for Jenner, I consider his 8618 in 1976 to be quite exceptional considering the state of training and support that he had in that era.
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Re: Jenner

Postby jeremyp » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:23 am

I saw a heading on an article the other day: "Bruce Jenner was an Olympian." When someone thinks the masses have to be reminded of that ("Hey Johhny Weismuller was an Olympian") then we know which end is up in pop media.
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Re: Jenner

Postby bambam » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:09 am

jeremyp wrote:I saw a heading on an article the other day: "Bruce Jenner was an Olympian." When someone thinks the masses have to be reminded of that ("Hey Johhny Weismuller was an Olympian") then we know which end is up in pop media.


Even worse when all they say is "was an Olympian" rather than "the decathlon gold medalist"
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:40 am

user4 wrote:As for Jenner, I consider his 8618 in 1976 to be quite exceptional considering the state of training and support that he had in that era.


we've been down this road before; Jenner's training/support (by the time '76 rolled around) was close to equal to what anybody has today.
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Re: Jenner

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:43 am

bambam wrote:
jeremyp wrote:I saw a heading on an article the other day: "Bruce Jenner was an Olympian." When someone thinks the masses have to be reminded of that ("Hey Johhny Weismuller was an Olympian") then we know which end is up in pop media.


Even worse when all they say is "was an Olympian" rather than "the decathlon gold medalist"

A.K.A. as the world's greatest athlete despite what the talking heads at ESPN would have you believe. The world's fastest swimmer has always been the men's Olympic champion in 100-meter freestyle. The world's fastest runner has always been the men's Olympic champion in the 100-meter dash, despite Michael Johnson's effort to redefine this title after winning double gold in Atlanta. And the world's greatest athlete will always be the Olympic/World Decathon champion IMO, and if any of the studs playing football or basketball want one of these titles, they need to get it the old-fashion way, which is earn it the same way Bob Hayes did before he went off to play in the NFL.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:00 pm

gh wrote:
user4 wrote:As for Jenner, I consider his 8618 in 1976 to be quite exceptional considering the state of training and support that he had in that era.


we've been down this road before; Jenner's training/support (by the time '76 rolled around) was close to equal to what anybody has today.


lets just take some time and explore that road... It should be clear that 1 year of training/support (before your PR/WR) is not quite like having 4 to 8 years at that level of training/support.

It is still hard to fathom that nothing has changed in training for the Deca .. in 40 years.
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Re: Jenner

Postby El Toro » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:31 am

This sort of thing almost makes me want to stop searching for "decathlon" but here it is... :(

The changing face of Bruce Jenner
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:59 am

El Toro wrote:This sort of thing almost makes me want to stop searching for "decathlon" but here it is... :(

The changing face of Bruce Jenner


The problem is the Southern CA sun. Fair skinned people go out there and love to lounge around in the noon day rays. The result: by the time they are 40 they look 60 !!... Jenner like all of the wealthy hollywood types, has been using a cosmetic surgeon to smooth out that extra 20 years. The results are to be expected.
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Re: Jenner

Postby jeremyp » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:47 am

user4 wrote:
El Toro wrote:This sort of thing almost makes me want to stop searching for "decathlon" but here it is... :(

The changing face of Bruce Jenner


The problem is the Southern CA sun. Fair skinned people go out there and love to lounge around in the noon day rays. The result: by the time they are 40 they look 60 !!... Jenner like all of the wealthy hollywood types, has been using a cosmetic surgeon to smooth out that extra 20 years. The results are to be expected.

That depends on whose wielding the trowel.
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Re: Jenner

Postby bambam » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:48 am

user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:As for Jenner, I consider his 8618 in 1976 to be quite exceptional considering the state of training and support that he had in that era.


we've been down this road before; Jenner's training/support (by the time '76 rolled around) was close to equal to what anybody has today.


lets just take some time and explore that road... It should be clear that 1 year of training/support (before your PR/WR) is not quite like having 4 to 8 years at that level of training/support.

It is still hard to fathom that nothing has changed in training for the Deca .. in 40 years.


Yes on the second note, but Jenner moved to San Jose right after the 1972 Olympics and had 4 years of training. He was working on sprinting with the sprinters in San Jose, and I think lifted with Mac Wilkins and Al Feuerbach, so his training was pretty advanced - and was so for 4 years prior Montreal.
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:27 am

user4 wrote:
El Toro wrote:This sort of thing almost makes me want to stop searching for "decathlon" but here it is... :(

The changing face of Bruce Jenner


The problem is the Southern CA sun. Fair skinned people go out there and love to lounge around in the noon day rays. The result: by the time they are 40 they look 60 !!... Jenner like all of the wealthy hollywood types, has been using a cosmetic surgeon to smooth out that extra 20 years. The results are to be expected.


The problem is the SoCal live-forever mindset. Bruce started having structural changes done to his face (not his skin) within a year or so of heading to la-la land.

I was the announcer of the Jenner Classic for more than a decade and he and I used to get together multiple times every year and saw it firsthand. The sun had nothing to do with it.
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Re: Jenner

Postby odelltrclan » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:08 pm

How would many of us fare if we were to show the changes in our appearance over 40 years?
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Re: Jenner

Postby bambam » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:55 pm

Just got this tweet:

Dave Barry ‏@rayadverb 37m

That last tweet was specifically about Bruce Jenner's trachea. And if you don't know what I mean, THAT IS MY POINT.
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Re: Jenner

Postby br » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:04 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... hange.html

"The 64-year-old reportedly met with a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon on Thursday for a consultation regarding the procedure, known as chondrolaryngoplasty (or tracheal shave), reports TMZ."
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Re: Jenner

Postby TrakFan » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:47 am

odelltrclan wrote:How would many of us fare if we were to show the changes in our appearance over 40 years?


I was 7 forty years ago, so there might be a few changes...
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