Jenner


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Re: Jenner

Postby lonewolf » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:50 am

I have been widowed for thirty years. Not being a celebrity, I have never considered plastic surgery. After all, even if the surgeons could make me look twenty years younger, the hotties ain't lining up for guys that look 60. :)
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Re: Jenner

Postby asindc » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:01 am

Trackrunner wrote:Am I that out of touch? I know Bruce Jenner and his standing in the pantheon of track and field but I had not idea that he was part of that crazy media hungry Kardashian family whatsoever til today. How the heck did I miss that and I'm not that old.


I had no idea, either, but then I proudly avoid anything reality-show related.
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Re: Jenner

Postby lonewolf » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:07 am

I am aware the Kardashians are out there because of almost unavoidable media coverage but would not know Kim from Khole from the other one if they came to my front door.

While I find little/nothing to admire about their reported antics, they are rich and I am not so whadda I know?
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Re: Jenner

Postby tandfman » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:42 am

The Jenner-Kardashian marriage may be on the rocks.

http://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/celebr ... ce-rumours
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:50 am

tandfman wrote:The Jenner-Kardashian marriage may be on the rocks.

Bruce . . . buddy . . . it's for the best . . .

P.S. 1983 called. It's still holding your face for you in Layaway.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Daisy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:19 am

Just out of interest, what are the origins of this show? Why do we care about them? Were any of them, other than Jenner, famous before it?
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:25 am

Daisy wrote:Just out of interest

There's your mistake.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Daisy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:37 am

Marlow wrote:
Daisy wrote:Just out of interest

There's your mistake.

I'm just being polite ;)
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Re: Jenner

Postby 18.99s » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:40 pm

Daisy wrote:Just out of interest, what are the origins of this show? Why do we care about them? Were any of them, other than Jenner, famous before it?

Something to do with Kim being a friend of Paris Hilton, and the Kardashian siblings being the children of the deceased lawyer and businessman Robert Kardashian, who assisted with OJ's defense.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Daisy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:56 pm

18.99s wrote:Paris Hilton....OJ's defense

Thanks, this explains everything. Do their viewers even know that Jenner was a decathlete?
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Re: Jenner

Postby Pego » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:05 pm

lonewolf wrote:I have been widowed for thirty years. Not being a celebrity, I have never considered plastic surgery. After all, even if the surgeons could make me look twenty years younger, the hotties ain't lining up for guys that look 60. :)


You've got it all backward.

A 70-year old businessman walks in the Country club with a young knock-out on his arm. When alone, his buddies ask.
"How did you score such a hottie?"
"I lied about my age."
"What? Did you tell her you are 50?"
"No, I told her I was 90."
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Re: Jenner

Postby 18.99s » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:19 pm

Daisy wrote:
18.99s wrote:Paris Hilton....OJ's defense

Thanks, this explains everything. Do their viewers even know that Jenner was a decathlete?

Deca-what? They're like, "I heard Kim Kardashian's stepdad won an Olympic gold medal in something! Is it really true?"
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Re: Jenner

Postby decafan » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Man, this is a disgusting thread. What exactly did this guy DO to deserve all of this hostility?
Bruce Jenner was my first hero. As a little boy, I watched him win his Olympic gold medal and was hooked on the decathlon, track and field and the Olympics for life. I had the pleasure of meeting Bruce a few years back. He was a very decent and kind man. He talks openly about his life after the gold '76 medal- the low point with the botched and unneeded plastic surgery, and finally leveling out to the life he is now living. If you have ever watched the show, you know he is a decent man always. He is always the voice of reason in that family.
I'm not sure what exactly he is guilty of. Marrying a woman who markets the crap out of her family? Loving his kids? Having a botched facelift during the low-point of his life? There are many, many sports heroes who are actually terrible role models. Bruce doesn't hurt anyone. He's not an abuser and he doesn't party. Say what you want, but the guy will always be a hero to me and until he actually does something to deserve otherwise, I'll defend him.
So all you haters on this thread, why don't you show us how awesome your life is after YOUR gold medal and world record. Until then, go suck it.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:53 am

decafan wrote:Man, this is a disgusting thread. What exactly did this guy DO to deserve all of this hostility? Bruce Jenner was my first hero. . . . So all you haters on this thread, why don't you show us how awesome your life is after YOUR gold medal and world record. Until then, go suck it.

Decaf, bro.
He is also one of my great T&F heroes. But as a member of a very dysfunctional family, he has semi-willingly become the ringmaster of a celebrity circus whose tent is collapsing. I wish him all the best, which may be to distance himself from this mess as much as he can.
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Re: Jenner

Postby decafan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:56 am

Marlow wrote:
Decaf, bro.
He is also one of my great T&F heroes. But as a member of a very dysfunctional family, he has semi-willingly become the ringmaster of a celebrity circus whose tent is collapsing. I wish him all the best, which may be to distance himself from this mess as much as he can.


Oh, I guess I didn't realize he was also one of your heroes. I mistook your comment about his face being on layaway as you just being a mean-spirited jerk- like all the others on this thread. I didn't realize you were coming from a place of compassion. Like any sincere fan, you are just rooting for him to improve his home-life. But still, that layaway comment... Please accept my apology. You wish him the best. Me too.
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:02 pm

Bruce had more than one procedure on his face. When his name was still attached to the Bruce Jenner classic in the years after Montréal I use to meet with him annually, and the changes were ongoing.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:12 pm

decafan wrote:Please accept my apology. You wish him the best. Me too.

I'm feeling magnanimous; I accept your apology . . . :wink:
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Re: Jenner

Postby decafan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:31 pm

gh wrote:Bruce had more than one procedure on his face. When his name was still attached to the Bruce Jenner classic in the years after Montréal I use to meet with him annually, and the changes were ongoing.


And your point is??? Here is what I know about his facelifts; at least one was botched and he very much regrets ever getting the first one. I've known a number of Olympic medalists who are bonifide dirt-bags. Bruce Jenner isn't one of them. You are one of the good guys in this sport, Garry. I suppose Bruce is an easy target, but please don't pile on.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:59 pm

Bruce Jenner was a mega athlete, a very rare talent. I am still amazed at his totals despite an underperformances (110H) or two. The guy ran a sub 48 400 on 10.9 100m speed with great upper body strength. That is amazing.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:40 am

decafan wrote:
gh wrote:Bruce had more than one procedure on his face. When his name was still attached to the Bruce Jenner classic in the years after Montréal I use to meet with him annually, and the changes were ongoing.


And your point is??? Here is what I know about his facelifts; at least one was botched and he very much regrets ever getting the first one. I've known a number of Olympic medalists who are bonifide dirt-bags. Bruce Jenner isn't one of them. You are one of the good guys in this sport, Garry. I suppose Bruce is an easy target, but please don't pile on.


What piling on is being done here.

I realize the guy is a hero of yours but I think you're reading too much into what too many posters are posting.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:40 am

Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.
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Re: Jenner

Postby decafan » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:30 pm

Dutra5 wrote:

What piling on is being done here.

I realize the guy is a hero of yours but I think you're reading too much into what too many posters are posting.


You are right. I went back and read the thread again. Jack and Marlow were the only ones really out of line, IMO.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:56 pm

decafan wrote:Jack and Marlow were the only ones really out of line, IMO.

If you really think so, then I apologize to Mr. Jenner. I wish him zero ill will, and I see now that he is denying the divorce rumors. If he's willing to put up with the media circus that his life has become, that's his call, as was his plastic surgery.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:14 am

Marlow wrote:If you really think so, then I apologize to Mr. Jenner. I wish him zero ill will, and I see now that he is denying the divorce rumors. If he's willing to put up with the media circus that his life has become, that's his call, as was his plastic surgery.


Lets see; a young handsome man marries a young beautiful woman. The young innocent girl works tirelessly to help support him while he trains to achieve his dream. When he achieves his dream of fame and fortune he discards his beautiful devoted wife for the siren's call and runs headlong into the flash and glitter of the carnival. After a decade of carnal dissipation he sees his soul's reflection and is aghast at the horrible carnage. He thinks he sees that father time has robbed him of his youth and beauty and in a futile attempt to defeat the old man he only further disfigures himself.
Last edited by user4 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:23 am

user4 wrote:After a decade of carnal dissipation he sees his soul's reflection and is aghast at the horrible carnage.

Two Tafnys!
Purple Prose and Hyperbole categories!
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Re: Jenner

Postby bambam » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:33 am

lonewolf wrote:I have been widowed for thirty years. Not being a celebrity, I have never considered plastic surgery. After all, even if the surgeons could make me look twenty years younger, the hotties ain't lining up for guys that look 60. :)


Actually lonewolf, from one I have inferred about your success in the oil industry, you might be exactly what the young hotties are looking for.
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Re: Jenner

Postby lonewolf » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:02 pm

That may be. They would probably believe if I told them I was 90 but there is a complication. My 58 year old daughter has vetoed my dating anyone younger than she is. :)
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Re: Jenner

Postby Gabriella » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:23 am

Not sure whether I should admit this but I watch The Kardashians!! It's because my partner loves it, but to be honest I dont find them offensive in any sense. Yes they live their lives through the media but they've made money out of it and appear to be decent people, if a little shallow at times. But really, are they that bad? Bruce comes across as a cool, decent and reasonable guy, the kind most kids would want as their father actually. On his surgery, well, it isn't great and he has feminized his face too much, but I've seen worse.

I'm more interested in how he did such a great score in Montreal 36 years ago and what he did to achieve it. He would have medalled at every Olympics since bar '96 and '04. It would have got him the following:
1980 - gold
1984 - bronze
1988 - gold
1992 - gold
1996 - 4th
2000 - silver
2004 - 4th
2008 - silver
2012 - bronze

How many other 1976 Olympic champions can boast their score/mark/time would do the same? What does this tell us? Answers on a postcard please.
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Re: Jenner

Postby gm » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:58 am

Edwin Moses...
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:34 am

Gabriella wrote:Not sure whether I should admit this ....

No you shouldn't


Gabriella wrote:...How many other 1976 Olympic champions can boast their score/mark/time would do the same? What does this tell us? Answers on a postcard please.

My postcard says that Jenner was remarkable. I think if he were found today as a HS athlete and trained in the manner of Hardee/Eaton/Nixon he would easily be over 8800.

Cant help but feeling bad for Guido Kratschmer, really filled out his skill set after Montreal and was at the top of his game by 1979-1980, would have likely won gold in Moscow had it not been for the boycott.
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Re: Jenner

Postby Rog » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:19 am

Kratschmer was beaten by Thompson in their only meeting in 1980, when Daley set his first world record, and of any decathlete in history Daley Thompson was the supreme competitor. I can't see Kratschmer beating him for gold.

Re the Kardashians, I think Saturday Night Live summed them up pretty succintly by having the Mother say "Kim didn't just get married for $17 million dollars. She did it for attention as well", and Kim wail “All week we’ve been just crying and crying and posing and crying and getting our anuses bleached.”

Or straight to the point - Daniel Craig saying they're "xxxxing idiots".

I think most kids would find Bruce Jenner cool at Halloween and hugely embarrassing at any other time. Not that it would stop Kris pimping them on TV.
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:03 am

user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:16 pm

gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful. Related to this, we might ask what are some events where Jenner today would score higher, I think 110H (+100) is one event where Jenner has great room to improve simply with training gains. Other events where Jenner would move up marginally are 100(+50), LJ(+50), SP(+50), and HJ(+50), PV(+100). Could Jenner be one of those guys that could compete at the elite level at both PV and Deca, I think so.
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Re: Jenner

Postby indigo » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:39 am

user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton ........


Double edged sword - See the current view topic for Adam Nelson in the current forum.
More stringent PED testinging for current performers. Even testing for the "recent" past.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:07 pm

indigo wrote:
user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton ........


Double edged sword - See the current view topic for Adam Nelson in the current forum.
More stringent PED testinging for current performers. Even testing for the "recent" past.


I wasnt even thinking of PEDs. One simply has to look at the financial package/sponsorship level of the athletes. This provides an unimagined (in 1972-76, Oldfield aside!) level of focus and time. Then there is the superior information (of 2012 v 1976) on training for the various events which could be an even greater advantage than any salary. Of course PEDs and PED testing has improved for all athletes in all events and yet the WRs continue to advance, in some cases (100M, 200M) dramatically.
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Re: Jenner

Postby mrbowie » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:25 pm

Let us not forget one thing about testing--the paramount consideration--one can only test for what one is looking for. So if you don't know what you are looking for, you ain't gonna find it!
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Re: Jenner

Postby gh » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:04 am

user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful.....



Time for a gut check :-)

Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)

Eaton 24*
Šebrle 27
Dvořak 27
O'Brien 26
Thompson 26
Hingsen 26
Clay 28
Nool 31
Freimuth 25
Hardee 25*
(*=score might rise at older age still)

Average age of those 10 men is 26.5

Age of Bruce Jenner when he set his WR? 27.

He wasn't just some fresh-faced kid.

He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.
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Re: Jenner

Postby 4:24-miler » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:42 pm

gh wrote:
user4 wrote:
gh wrote:
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.


The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.


Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful.....



Time for a gut check :-)

Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)

Eaton 24*
Šebrle 27
Dvořak 27
O'Brien 26
Thompson 26
Hingsen 26
Clay 28
Nool 31
Freimuth 25
Hardee 25*
(*=score might rise at older age still)

Average age of those 10 men is 26.5

Age of Bruce Jenner when he set his WR? 27.

He wasn't just some fresh-faced kid.

He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.

The 1976 Olympics were the first Olympics I ever watched (I was 8 years old). Bruce Jenner was hyped quite a bit. The narrative being hyped was that Jenner had been training "full time" and preparing to win the gold medal for eight years. That always stuck with me.
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Re: Jenner

Postby kuha » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:31 pm

4:24-miler wrote:The narrative being hyped was that Jenner had been training "full time" and preparing to win the gold medal for eight years. That always stuck with me.


Eight years is a stretch: he only graduated from high school in the spring of 1968. Probably more true that he spent a solid 5 years training for the gold, with the 4 years between Munich and Montreal being truly key. GH is totally correct: Jenner did have the luxury of training full-time--very close in opportunity and attitude to today's best.
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Re: Jenner

Postby user4 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:51 pm

gh wrote:
Time for a gut check :-)

Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)

Eaton 24*
Šebrle 27
Dvořak 27
O'Brien 26
Thompson 26
Hingsen 26
Clay 28
Nool 31
Freimuth 25
Hardee 25*
(*=score might rise at older age still)

Average age of those 10 men is 26.5

Age of Bruce Jenner when he set his WR? 27.

He wasn't just some fresh-faced kid.

He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.


That is not a gut check, that is a well placed flamingo kick! :) ... those points are well taken and remove any disagreement regarding the prime age for PRs in the decathlon, it is the late 20s. But just to focus a bit, the point was that Jenner could go over 8800 if he were competing today. Much of the progress in WRs since Jenner are due to the luxuries the modern athlete is afforded. 5 years of the state of the art training and coaching makes a real difference. Conversely, take anyone of those athletes from the above list, give him the career trajectory of Jenner 1970-1976 and ask does he reach the same PR ? .. My guess is that most of them falls somewhere in the 8600 range. OK, maybe Eaton goes 8800 even by those standards. He is a very rare talent.
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