Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???


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Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby wineturtle » Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:50 am

Questions for but not limited to Bill & the OlyMADMen.


How often do we see T&F B qualifiers for the OGs get through the rounds and into the finals? or Medal?

When did the A&B system start?
Do other sports have a two tiered system?
What were some of the historic qualification standards based on?
Thanks
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby bambam » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:58 pm

wineturtle wrote:Questions for but not limited to Bill & the OlyMADMen.


How often do we see T&F B qualifiers for the OGs get through the rounds and into the finals? or Medal?

When did the A&B system start?
Do other sports have a two tiered system?
What were some of the historic qualification standards based on?
Thanks


Well, thank you for this question because we are currently working on qualification systems. Unfortunately I can't answer the question about B qualifiers getting thru to the finals, although I suspect it is rare.

One of the reasons that I like this question is that we need help. Does anybody have lists of the A and B standards for various years. I only have a couple more recent years. A few years ago I purged my TAFNews files of all but Olympic issues (pre and post) so cannot check them. The standards go back to 1964 for track & field. I have those as they are listed in the Official Report.

Swimming also has A and B standards although they call them the OQT (Olympic Qualifying Time = A) and OST (Olympic Selection Time = B).

If anyone has anything on the athletics qualifying standards (1968-2000) please send to me at bill1729@gmail.com
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby Powell » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:21 am

It wasn't OG, but Sylwester Bednarek won a medal at WC without having previously attained the A standard.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby Olli » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:01 am

Another example from World Championships is Tommi Evilä, who won bronze in 2005 in long jump, despite not reaching the A standard (820) in the entire year in legitimate circumstances. (His bronze result, 825, was wind-assisted; his legit. year's best was 819.)
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby Per Andersen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:00 pm

Bednarek and Evila could medal because their events have ridiculously hard "A" standards.

8.20 (26-11) in the LJ for the "A" is insane.

Somebody with a "B" in the Women's 100H for instance would have zero chance to make even the semi-final.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby norunner » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:36 pm

Per Andersen wrote:Bednarek and Evila could medal because their events have ridiculously hard "A" standards.

8.20 (26-11) in the LJ for the "A" is insane.

Somebody with a "B" in the Women's 100H for instance would have zero chance to make even the semi-final.
But this is simply a time issue, is it not? If you have 80 women in 10 heats for 100H i'm guessing the heats would still take less time than having 40 men in the long jump qualification.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby Per Andersen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:38 pm

My point is that it is grossly unfair. At this point there are 11 men with the "A" standard in the HJ, 13 in the LJ and 14 in the PV. In the women's 100H the number is 40!

A Pole Vaulter currently with the "A" standard of 5.72 (18-9 1/4) would be tied for 4th on the world list for this season.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby dj » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:58 pm

Per Andersen wrote:My point is that it is grossly unfair. At this point there are 11 men with the "A" standard in the HJ, 13 in the LJ and 14 in the PV. In the women's 100H the number is 40!

A Pole Vaulter currently with the "A" standard of 5.72 (18-9 1/4) would be tied for 4th on the world list for this season.


But if you restrict each country to a max of 3 A standard athletes, how many hurdlers does that yield? Certainly far fewer than 40.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby norunner » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:10 am

Per Andersen wrote:My point is that it is grossly unfair. At this point there are 11 men with the "A" standard in the HJ, 13 in the LJ and 14 in the PV. In the women's 100H the number is 40!

A Pole Vaulter currently with the "A" standard of 5.72 (18-9 1/4) would be tied for 4th on the world list for this season.
It will always be unfair, you simply can't have similar numbers of athletes in all events. Besides it seems to even out, taking your two examples, LJ men and 100H women: Last year in Daegu there were 39 women in the 100H heats and 36 men in the LJ qualification.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby Powell » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:09 am

Per Andersen wrote:Bednarek and Evila could medal because their events have ridiculously hard "A" standards.


And Bednarek was lucky to even get selected for the national team. In principle, the Polish federation doesn't select B standard athletes - Bednarek was a rare exception and was only given the chance because he was young and promising and because the WC were close to Poland, so it was a cheap trip.
I believe Evila was in a similar situation and might not have been selected had the WC not been in Finland that year.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby Olli » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:37 am

Powell wrote:
I believe Evila was in a similar situation and might not have been selected had the WC not been in Finland that year.


I don't think so. Nowadays the level of t&f is so low in Finland that they cannot be choosy, but select practically all eligible athletes.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby mikli » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:32 am

Powell wrote:I believe Evila was in a similar situation and might not have been selected had the WC not been in Finland that year.

Having jumped 8.27w (+2.4) in July that year, there must have been no doubt about his selection.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby Powell » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:21 pm

Olli wrote:
Powell wrote:
I believe Evila was in a similar situation and might not have been selected had the WC not been in Finland that year.


I don't think so. Nowadays the level of t&f is so low in Finland that they cannot be choosy, but select practically all eligible athletes.


He wasn't at the 2004 OG, despite having jumped 8.15 that year, so I dunno about that.
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby mikli » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:08 am

Powell wrote:
Olli wrote:
Powell wrote:
I believe Evila was in a similar situation and might not have been selected had the WC not been in Finland that year.


I don't think so. Nowadays the level of t&f is so low in Finland that they cannot be choosy, but select practically all eligible athletes.


He wasn't at the 2004 OG, despite having jumped 8.15 that year, so I dunno about that.


He jumped 8.15 after the games, in September. Since the B-standard was 8.05 and he had jumped 8.01 before the games, he obviously was out. Had he jumped 8.05 in legal wind before the games, he would have been selected, simple as that (unless another Finn would have jumped longer).
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Re: Success of B qualifiers at the Olympic Games???

Postby James Fields » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:38 pm

Wine Turtle asked,
When did the A and B system start?

____________

I'm fairly sure that 1960 was the first year for an entry standard -- distance, height, or time.
Teenager Doris Severtsen [later Doris Brown, now Doris Heitage] placed third in USA trials 800m run but was a few seconds shy of the standard so she did not go to Rome.

I don't recall the option of a "B" standard back then -- and could find no mention of it in hundreds of pages of relevant reference books; so, now weary, I will look forward to some other respondent informing us when "B" was introduced.
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