A recent sports weekly exclusive on Wang Junxia

[Vielleicht]

http://sports.qq.com/a/20120530/000590.htm

This was done by one of the most prestigious periodics in China; I guess there aren't many Chinese speakers around so I'll pick several interesting points out to translate:

1. Wang says she received numerous death threats aimed at herself and her family before Atlanta, presumedly from Ma's Army;

2. She had severe diarrhea in Atlanta and was persuaded to give up the 5,000m to concentrate on her main event 10,000m, which she refused, fearing that at the time of the 10,000m final, namely the last day on the programme, she would have nothing left in her;

3. At the 10,000m final she cited that she had "no idea where Riberio was and was taken aback as the video showed that she took me over from the inside" because of extreme fatigue and headache;

4. She thought there were better athletes in Ma's Army than her who were ruined by Ma's intensive regime, especially mentally.

[aaronk]

Don't really care what her story is, or the other Chinese women who so radically altered the mid-long distance lists in 1993.
BUT.......
her 10K of 29:31.78 was INCREDIBLE!!!
Supposedly, she ran her first 5K in 15:05 and change.
That means her FINAL 5K was in 14:26!!!
That BETTERED the WR time then!!!
And she supposedly ran her final 3K in 8:17+.
No one has been under 8:20 in a 3K since.......well, since 1993!!!

So IF her mark (and those of the other 1993 Chinese women) was legit.....
it stands as the most AMAZING run of ALL TIME!!!!!

[pakillo]

Interesting. And speaking of 10k world record I think it is possible to break it, but how many times it was attacked? It's extremely rare to see women's 10km at meetings and maybe no one dares to try...
But speaking of 3k world record...NO!
One of the Chinese women from that generation took part in a road race in Spain this year.

[lovetorun]

Interesting. And speaking of 10k world record I think it is possible to break it, but how many times it was attacked? It's extremely rare to see women's 10km at meetings and maybe no one dares to try...
But speaking of 3k world record...NO!
One of the Chinese women from that generation took part in a road race in Spain this year.

I think Mary Decker Slaney could have run an 8:17 3000m. She had a 8:25+ PR but had few opportunties to run faster in a fast race in Europe. I think she had more basic talent than any USA lady, ever...

[mump boy]

Interesting. And speaking of 10k world record I think it is possible to break it, but how many times it was attacked? It's extremely rare to see women's 10km at meetings and maybe no one dares to try...
But speaking of 3k world record...NO!
One of the Chinese women from that generation took part in a road race in Spain this year.

I totally agree with this, Paula could have run significantly under 30 in 02 in decent conditions and with pacemakers as could Baby Face and a few others.

If Grand Prix race had put on a hight class w10k's the way they do with men Wang may no longer be WR holder or at least the time wouldn't look that special. 3k on the other hand no chance

[Powell]

Tiru ran 14:11 at 5000, which suggests she'd be capable of something around 29:30. But she certainly wouldn't be able to do it by running the first half in 15:06 and the final 3k in 8:17!

[kuha]

I totally agree with this, Paula could have run significantly under 30 in 02 in decent conditions and with pacemakers as could Baby Face and a few others.

If Grand Prix race had put on a hight class w10k's the way they do with men Wang may no longer be WR holder or at least the time wouldn't look that special. 3k on the other hand no chance

But none of this really matters since the performance (with the absurdly fast last 3 and 5k) was really worth something like 29:15, that is, fully on par with 8:06. So the fact that Paula coulda/shoulda run 29:50 has precisely nothing to do with the the putative validity of this mark.

[CookyMonzta]

Tiru ran 14:11 at 5000, which suggests she'd be capable of something around 29:30. But she certainly wouldn't be able to do it by running the first half in 15:06 and the final 3k in 8:17!

She could if she hit 14:55 for the first 5K. In Beijing, Lornah Kiplagat led the field in 15:09. Therefore, that last 5K had to be around 14:45 or slightly faster. I figure 14:55+14:35 should be attainable, especially for a 14:11 5K runner.

[mump boy]

I totally agree with this, Paula could have run significantly under 30 in 02 in decent conditions and with pacemakers as could Baby Face and a few others.

If Grand Prix race had put on a hight class w10k's the way they do with men Wang may no longer be WR holder or at least the time wouldn't look that special. 3k on the other hand no chance

So the fact that Paula coulda/shoulda run 29:50 has precisely nothing to do with the the putative validity of this mark.

But it has a lot to do with people accepting it's validity and Paula could have run significantly under 29.50 considering she ran 30 all by herself in pouring rain.

[kuha]

But it has a lot to do with people accepting it's validity

No, not at all. Talk to me about the "validity" of a 10,000 WR in which the last 5,000 and last 3,000 were both well under the then-current WRs at those distances. Name one other instance in all of athletics history in which that has happened. Just one other instance. I'll give you time to do the research.

[mump boy]

But it has a lot to do with people accepting it's validity

No, not at all. Talk to me about the "validity" of a 10,000 WR in which the last 5,000 and last 3,000 were both well under the then-current WRs at those distances. Name one other instance in all of athletics history in which that has happened. Just one other instance. I'll give you time to do the research.

Most people don't look into the minutiae of WR stats stop being so pedantic

[kuha]

But it has a lot to do with people accepting it's validity

No, not at all. Talk to me about the "validity" of a 10,000 WR in which the last 5,000 and last 3,000 were both well under the then-current WRs at those distances. Name one other instance in all of athletics history in which that has happened. Just one other instance. I'll give you time to do the research.

Most people don't look into the minutiae of WR stats stop being so pedantic

[Conor Dary]

But it has a lot to do with people accepting it's validity

No, not at all. Talk to me about the "validity" of a 10,000 WR in which the last 5,000 and last 3,000 were both well under the then-current WRs at those distances. Name one other instance in all of athletics history in which that has happened. Just one other instance. I'll give you time to do the research.

Most people don't look into the minutiae of WR stats stop being so pedantic

I'll second that!

[Flumpy]

But mump is correct.

The WR is what it is. Only track geeks like ourselves know the precise times of how such a record was set. I'd bet that the vast majority of female 10k runners don't even know.

All people see is the time which needs to be beaten. 29:31.78 looks (is) ridiculous and so athletes don't even attempt it, but ones others start to get closer the barrier seems more realistic.

In 2002 I suspect Paula may have been able to run love 29.50's at least which is a far more attainable number and one that other athletes would see as possible to match. Obviously the nearer others get to the record the more vaalid it seems.

No one here if suggesting that the records is legit but mumps point clearly is.

I'm as suspicious as everyone else of the Chinese WR's but Master Po's post here is extremely interesting and should be read by everyone before they dismiss them out of hand.........

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=40443&hilit=Wang+Yunxia#p705884

[kuha]

But mump is correct.

But no he is not. He is basically saying that he is not interested in "actual validity" but something like "the appearance of validity to those who don't know anything." By this standard, if X athlete ran 4980 meters at a 12:00 pace, then stopped, had a cup of tea and walked across the line in 12:55, then there would be nothing at all odd or remarkable about the performance. Really? Are we this simple minded?

And I've read Po's piece--it is characteristically thoughtful, reasonable, and careful, but it does not explain anything.

As I stated before:

[Flumpy]

But mump is correct.

But no he is not. He is basically saying that he is not interested in "actual validity" but something like "the appearance of validity to those who don't know anything."

That isn't what he's saying at all, but if you insist on misunderstanding then so be it.

[mump boy]

But mump is correct.

But no he is not. He is basically saying that he is not interested in "actual validity" but something like "the appearance of validity to those who don't know anything." By this standard, if X athlete ran 4980 meters at a 12:00 pace, then stopped, had a cup of tea and walked across the line in 12:55, then there would be nothing at all odd or remarkable about the performance. Really? Are we this simple minded?

And I've read Po's piece--it is characteristically thoughtful, reasonable, and careful, but it does not explain anything.

As I stated before:

You are not most people.

As Flumpy points out the general public and even most of the athletes will have no idea of the WR splits, it is the final time that is of interest.

Your argument that is doesn't matter if other could have approached 29.30 because the 'real' WR should due 29.15 is utter nonsense. What the WR 'should' be is pure speculation and is irrelevant. The WR is 29.30 and if Paula et al had, had a crack at it at top form they may well have approached it and it would not now look so absurd

[kuha]

Are we this simple minded?

So you are answering "YES." Got it.

[SQUACKEE]

Are we this simple minded?

So you are answering "YES." Got it.

I guess some people would like to total ignore splits but there is a reason they are of interest! Splits to the informed are EVERYTHING! It is not unusual for runners to receive splits on every lap of a race. Why? Because runners find them quite useful.

Everyone knows the best away to achieve your best time is even splits. If your last 5000 in a 10000 is the world record, you have totally failed to run your best. I am simple minded but even I know dat!