Ramblin'


Forum devoted to track & field items of an historical nature.

Ramblin'

Postby Brutal » Tue May 27, 2003 9:33 am

Just a few thoughts......

Alternate Allen Woodring beats the great Charley Paddock to win the 1920 Olympic 200 meters....whoa!

High schooler Francis Hussey blows Olympic 100 meter champ Harold Abrahams away on the first leg of the 1924 Olympic 4x1......what???

Why didn't Eddie Tolan run on the 32 Olympic 4x1 team?

What if Eulace Preacock runs in Berlin in 36?

What about Hal Davis, Payton Jordan and Mozell Ellerbe? Too bad no Olympics in 40 or 44.

What if Jim Golliday isn't injured in both 52 and 56?

What happened to Ray Norton in 1960?

What if Hayes had ran the 200 in Tokyo does he
beat Carr?

Could Hayes have beaten Hines in Mexico City?

I would loved to have seen this 4x1 in 1968

leadoff-Charlie Greene
second-John Carlos
third-Jimmy Hines
anchor-Tommie Smith

Could Eddie Hart or Rey Robinson have beaten Borzov in 72? What if Larry Black doesn't get lane 1?

Here are what I considered the ultimate when talking speed.....

Herb McKenley cooks a 44.6 relay leg in the 52 Olympic 4x4. That was histories first sub 45.0.

Bullet Bob Hayes stuns the world with an amazing anchor leg in the 64 Tokyo Olympics.

Tommie Smith runs an incredible 19.5 200 straight in 1966 to shatter the WR of 20.0.

High Schooler Houston McTear runs an incredible 9.0 to tie the WR in the 100 yard dash.

Ben Johnson explodes to a 9.79 in 1988 to win the Olympic 100 meters. Drugs or no drugs an amazing sprint.

MJ runs a time so far out there that it transcends track and field and falls into the relm of the "supernatural" his 19.32 might never be broken, it is that far away from anyone else.

nuff!
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Guest » Tue May 27, 2003 9:35 am

Brutal, just what is it about "current events" vs. "historical" that you can't comprehend?
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby jsquire » Tue May 27, 2003 9:49 am

>Could Eddie Hart or
>Rey Robinson have beaten Borzov in 72? What if
>Larry Black doesn't get lane 1?

In their 1972 100 meter world rankings, T&FN's rankings committee said that they didn't think anyone was going to beat Borzov anywhere anytime in 1972.
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby 1.97hjsteve » Tue May 27, 2003 10:40 am

At the Rome OG's in 1960, Norton suffered from a " stiff neck", in both the 100 and 200, then crowned it all by taking off too soon in the relay, so Budd could not catch him before they ran out of the zone. I believe he then ran a prtty good leg, but Sime's anchor leg, "winning" by about a yard in a presumed WR 39.4, was to no avail. I do not believe Norton ever ran again. A sad end to a career....
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby 1.97hjsteve » Tue May 27, 2003 10:44 am

Just to complete the narrative, Norton made it to both 6-man finals, then finished last in each of them.
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Guest » Tue May 27, 2003 11:52 am

Re: Golliday in '52. Put it this way. Remigino has to be the luckiest guy ever to win the Olympic 100m.

Hayes, assuming his '64 form, would have beaten Hines comfortably.

Larry Black is under appreciated, along with Julius Sang and that NCC team, but I have to go with Borzov.
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby 1.97hjsteve » Tue May 27, 2003 2:41 pm

That was a pretty easy lookin' 20 flat he ran, for sure.
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Guest » Tue May 27, 2003 3:31 pm

Ramblin'? Hell, you got me to thinking, all over again, about all the Hell that Ben Johnson caught, and how far ahead of his just as guilty contemporaries he was. Look at how long it took the rest to catch up.
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Per Andersen » Tue May 27, 2003 10:35 pm

Remember what Dr. Jamie Astaphan (Ben's nr.2 guy on the drug team) said: If I could have given Carl what I gave Ben, Carl runs under 9.

Some more ramblin: Charlie Tidwell of Kansas does not get injured before the F.O.T in '60, goes to Rome and beats Hary. Nah, then Sime would not be on the team.
Glen Davis is born 20 years later, trains like people did in the 70's, runs in Montreal and beats Moses. ( I am feeling reckless tonite ).
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby jhc68 » Wed May 28, 2003 8:32 pm

Suppose a healthy Tommie Smith had run the 400m at Mexico City. Does he beat Lee Evans and push the record down into the mid to low 43's?
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:34 pm

hayes i do not believe would beat carr at 200. the 200 is very different from the 100. hayes would have to deal with the curve plus the endurence of running that extra 100. hayes does not have the experience at 200.
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Guest » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:25 pm

<hayes i do not believe would beat carr at 200. the 200 is very different from the 100. hayes would have to deal with the curve plus the endurence of running that extra 100. hayes does not have the experience at 200.>

I do know that Hayes beat Henry Carr in at least one 200 m/220 y race - described in World Sports sometime in the 1960s by Ron Freeman (II?). Can anyone of the T&FN staff let us know whether they have a full count on Hayes-H. Carr confrontations over 200 m/220 y?
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Ramblin', Canadian Ben

Postby Guest » Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:45 am

A clean Ben Johnson doesn't beat Lewis that afternoon. Ben was a 60 meter specialist, and he's short. Lewis puts a hook in his back the last 15-20 meters if Johnson wasn't almost inhumanly muscled. His torso, even relaxed, had near-bodybuilder bulk in Seoul.
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:58 am

I would loved to have seen this 4x1 in 1968
leadoff-Charlie Greene
second-John Carlos
third-Jimmy Hines
anchor-Tommie Smith

I would love to have seen this 4 x1 in 1976.
leadoff-Houston McTear
second-Steve Riddick
third Harvey Glance
amchor-Steve Williams
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:59 am

I would loved to have seen this 4x1 in 1968
leadoff-Charlie Greene
second-John Carlos
third-Jimmy Hines
anchor-Tommie Smith

I would love to have seen this 4 x1 in 1976.
leadoff-Houston McTear
second-Steve Riddick
third Harvey Glance
anchor-Steve Williams
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Re: Ramblin'

Postby billthedog » Thu Sep 25, 2003 8:35 am

There is some light to be shed on one of Brutal's questions. As well as Tolan, neither Metcalfe nor Simpson, our other 100m finalists, ran in the 400m relay. The team was made up of Frank Wykoff and Emmett Toppino, fourth and fifth in 100m trials, and Hec Dyer and Bob Kiesel, fourth and fifth in the 200m trials. What was unusual was not that Tolan didn't run but that Bill Carr did run, anchoring the 1600mr with three who had finished out of the money at the trials.
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