Best sprinter to never win an Olympic medal?


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Postby Speedfirst » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:45 am

bad hammy wrote:Why are you guys wasting all of our time running on about Asafa here? It is a moot point - Gay is demonstrably better than Powell and also lacks Olympic hardware.


Your opinion, especially as it relates to this thread, so we'll kindly continue, now you can decide not to.
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Postby STL_Runner » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:49 am

Speedfirst wrote:
bad hammy wrote:Why are you guys wasting all of our time running on about Asafa here? It is a moot point - Gay is demonstrably better than Powell and also lacks Olympic hardware.


Your opinion, especially as it relates to this thread, so we'll kindly continue, now you can decide not to.

Of course it's his opinion. That's what this thread is about! Why do insist on making posts like this on so many different threads?

Can we PLEASE get an Ignore feature on this site?
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Postby Speedfirst » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:55 am

STL_Runner wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:
bad hammy wrote:Why are you guys wasting all of our time running on about Asafa here? It is a moot point - Gay is demonstrably better than Powell and also lacks Olympic hardware.


Your opinion, especially as it relates to this thread, so we'll kindly continue, now you can decide not to.

Of course it's his opinion. That's what this thread is about! Why do insist on making posts like this on so many different threads?

Can we PLEASE get an Ignore feature on this site?


No it's not simply about opinions, you try to come off as if your crap doesn't stink.

P.S. you have an ignore button, it's called keep it moving.... to the left to the left, exit even.....don't let the door knob hit you, where the good Lord split you...LOL
Last edited by Speedfirst on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best sprinter to never win an Olympic medal?

Postby John G » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:55 am

Conor Dary wrote:
Avante wrote:Hal Davis?


We have covered stuff like this a few dozen times.

However, I do believe Steve Williams would have won the Montreal 100, but was injured just before the Trials that year.

Then we have the circa 1980 crowd who got screwed by Carter.


When did Williams produce a performance better than Crawford and Quarrie in Montreal? He ran plenty of electronically timed 100s in Europe in 74- 77 and his fastest was 10.08 (+1.1) in Zurich .......... behind Riddick.
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Postby STL_Runner » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:56 am

STL_Runner wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:An individual medal?

Asafa Powell.

He has 50+ sub 10s (most ever), set a couple of world records and is the 3rd fastest man to ever live.

But no individual Oly medal.

Yet.

That pretty much ends this thread for the men's discussion. Other recent stars who never won an Olympic medal include Leroy Burrell and Bruny Surin. Oh yeah, and Tyson Gay.

I'm going to update my answer after considering the new points that gh and TrackDaddy have made. I think the answer is Tyson Gay instead of Asafa Powell. When not considering the Olympics, Tyson is better. He has more and better hardware from the World Championships, a faster PR, and a positive record against Powell. I don't really care how many more sub-10s Asafa has.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:40 pm

STL_Runner wrote:
STL_Runner wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:An individual medal?

Asafa Powell.

He has 50+ sub 10s (most ever), set a couple of world records and is the 3rd fastest man to ever live.

But no individual Oly medal.

Yet.

That pretty much ends this thread for the men's discussion. Other recent stars who never won an Olympic medal include Leroy Burrell and Bruny Surin. Oh yeah, and Tyson Gay.

I'm going to update my answer after considering the new points that gh and TrackDaddy have made. I think the answer is Tyson Gay instead of Asafa Powell. When not considering the Olympics, Tyson is better. He has more and better hardware from the World Championships, a faster PR, and a positive record against Powell. I don't really care how many more sub-10s Asafa has.


Wishy washy...lol.

And what do you mean "when not considering the Olympics"?

Given the thread title and its implications...how can you disregard them?

Both Gay and Powell have run in the Olympics and Powell has performed better. For WHATEVER reason, including injury. So, on that stage, Powell has been better and is the BEST of the two ;-) , although neither has a medal.

I can agree that Gay is a legitimate argument though.
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Postby STL_Runner » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:52 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:Wishy washy...lol.

And what do you mean "when not considering the Olympics"?

Given the thread title and its implications...how can you disregard them?

Both Gay and Powell have run in the Olympics and Powell has performed better. For WHATEVER reason, including injury. So, on that stage, Powell has been better and is the BEST of the two ;-) , although neither has a medal.

I can agree that Gay is a legitimate argument though.

I'm not considering the Olympics partly to make the comparison easier, and also because it helps my case! When comparing them in the Olympics, it basically comes down to injuries versus choking. If Powell doesn't choke, he wins a medal, and isn't in the discussion. If Gay isn't injured, he wins a medal, and isn't in the discussion. Keeping their performance in the Olympics out of the equation just makes everything easier.

Even with considering the Olympics, I think there is a case to be made for Gay over Powell. As mentioned above, he has more hardware, better hardware, a better PR, and a positive record against Powell. Yes, Powell was AOY and has more sub-50s, but I don't think that can make up for what Gay has done. Also, we're considering the best sprinter, and comparing Gay to Powell over 200 meters is a very short discussion.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:37 am

Here's the difference between Tyson and Asafa with respect to this discussion, Tyson has been in only 1 Olympics and wasn't 100%.

Asafa has had more opportunities to obtain his individual medal.
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Postby BisonHurdler » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:37 am

Speedfirst wrote:
Again you guys are adding qualifiers to the thread and that's not what the thread is about. So I guess now your opinion is Wiliams was better than Asafa and Asafa never won anything?



Your fundamental lack of understanding and inability to see beyond your own preconceived definition of one word (and simultaneous ability to completely ignore others' preconceived definition of one word) make it entirely futile to even engage in this discussion with you at any meaningful level.
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Postby Peter Michaelson » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:48 am

Stanley Floyd, Rey Robinson.
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:11 am

BisonHurdler wrote:make it entirely futile to even engage in this discussion with you at any meaningful level.

I've been following the thread and the disconnects between the various posts are huge. I was going to chime in with an opinion but i realised that it would lead down the path to Futility again. Another thread consigned to the ignore pile.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:24 am

BisonHurdler wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:
Again you guys are adding qualifiers to the thread and that's not what the thread is about. So I guess now your opinion is Wiliams was better than Asafa and Asafa never won anything?



Your fundamental lack of understanding and inability to see beyond your own preconceived definition of one word (and simultaneous ability to completely ignore others' preconceived definition of one word) make it entirely futile to even engage in this discussion with you at any meaningful level.


So in other words I don't kiss your butt or agree with you.

IMO, Iike others who express theirs I stated what I believe, you got an issue with that, your issue, not mine.

Now you my friend can simply ignore any or all of my post, your choice. Keep it moving.

What I do notice quite often from many of you snubs ( yeah you) on here, is this holier than thou mindset. Your opinion is just that, an opinion, not a statement of fact. Yeah all y'all monday morning quarterbacks, sitting back and being very analytical or judging others. You don't know me from Adam, but knock yourself out, I'll continue to post when I want, how I want, without the fear of your being the PC police.

P.S. at least I added something to the subject of the thread, your contribution to this thread is what again? You my friend simply want to attempt to throw your weigh around on a message board..LOL
By the way....still Asafa hands down!!!
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:15 am

Daisy wrote:
BisonHurdler wrote:make it entirely futile to even engage in this discussion with you at any meaningful level.

I've been following the thread and the disconnects between the various posts are huge. I was going to chime in with an opinion but i realised that it would lead down the path to Futility again. Another thread consigned to the ignore pile.


There is no definitive answer to the thread question; the only facts are those used to build a substantive argument which are used to support an opinion.

In one thread people claim that the fastest person (Bolt) is the best ever, but in this thread the fact that Asafa Powell has set two world records and has been the most consistently fast person to EVER LIVE...doesn't make him the "best" to never win an Olympic medal?

Yeah, its futile.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:54 am

TrackDaddy wrote:
Daisy wrote:
BisonHurdler wrote:make it entirely futile to even engage in this discussion with you at any meaningful level.

I've been following the thread and the disconnects between the various posts are huge. I was going to chime in with an opinion but i realised that it would lead down the path to Futility again. Another thread consigned to the ignore pile.


There is no definitive answer to the thread question; the only facts are those used to build a substantive argument which are used to support an opinion.

In one thread people claim that the fastest person (Bolt) is the best ever, but in this thread the fact that Asafa Powell has set two world records and has been the most consistently fast person to EVER LIVE...doesn't make him the "best" to never win an Olympic medal?

Yeah, its futile.


Touche TD
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:56 am

Futility is not due to to the fact that differing opinions exist.

Futility here is a consequence of ignoring all the arguments posted. Or replying to arguments that were never posted. It is a common a occurrence and rapidly kills threads.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:06 am

Daisy wrote:Futility is not due to to the fact that differing opinions exist.

Futility here is a consequence of ignoring all the arguments posted. Or replying to arguments that were never posted. It is a common a occurrence and rapidly kills threads.


Not adding anything related to the thread, doesn't help. Some people around here spend more time on that, sitting back waiting to poke holes, hey whatever floats your boat.
Last edited by Speedfirst on Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:06 am

It could help. But people choose to ignore the problem.

One observation speedfirst, recently you have come down solidly for two points.

1) The best ever not to win an Olympic medal is Powell: He has the fastest time.

2) The best ever is Lewis.

Your opinions appear to be inconsistent, so to rail into posters like bad hammey who have made arguments similar to yours for Lewis seems a little strange.
Last edited by Daisy on Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:12 am

Daisy wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:
Daisy wrote:Futility is not due to to the fact that differing opinions exist.

Futility here is a consequence of ignoring all the arguments posted. Or replying to arguments that were never posted. It is a common a occurrence and rapidly kills threads.


Not adding anything related to the thread, doesn't help.

It could help. But people choose to ignore the problem.


What problem? The arguments, who determines they're problems? Who determine which arguments are problems and which one's aren't.

It's really a matter of semantics....some say point counter point, others say debating, some discussing, while others state arguments. Maybe, just maybe, it's in the eye of the beholder.
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:16 am

The problem is you enter threads and troll (intentionally or not). You cause every thread to enter into a tail spin. It matters not who is involved in the cocktail. The only consistent thing is your presence.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:22 am

Daisy wrote:The problem is you enter threads and troll (intentionally or not). You cause every thread to enter into a tail spin. It matters not who is involved in the cocktail. The only consistent thing is your presence.


Oh I see, I twisted your arm to say that, you never said that before. You just said arguments were the problem, my name ain't argument. Why don't you be man enough to state that in the first place instead of hiding behind the argument facade.

Every thread into a tail spin...what a joke. I don't even post in every thread. Why don't you do like your other girl friends and use your ignore button. You seem to use it, you don't reply to ALL my post, you seemingly use that discretion when you elect to.

P.S. I'll invite you as I have the other snubs, want to me to leave....make me leave. When did you last add anything related to the subject?

P.S.S. By the way holier than thou....check this thread you'll see what the arguments are. See what I first posted and then while you're at it, go to the Marion Jones thread look at my 1st post. No one needs to take you at face value, there is a paper trail.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:20 pm

Daisy wrote:It could help. But people choose to ignore the problem.

One observation speedfirst, recently you have come down solidly for two points.

1) The best ever not to win an Olympic medal is Powell: He has the fastest time.

2) The best ever is Lewis.

Your opinions appear to be inconsistent, so to rail into posters like bad hammey who have made arguments similar to yours for Lewis seems a little strange.


Wrong, Daisy.

Powell doesn't have the "fastest" time (even among those who've never won an Olympic medal).

What he has done is set the WR not once, but twice and consistenly run fast times more often than any other human that has ever lived. I don't see the inconsistency you allege in Speedfirst's argument, I see error in your "facts."

Now there are those in the two threads you reference whose arguments have been inconsistent, but unfortunately you've failed to aim your criticism in their direction.

What I do see are personal attacks being thrown in his direction by you and the rest of the prude crew.
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:31 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:
Daisy wrote:It could help. But people choose to ignore the problem.

One observation speedfirst, recently you have come down solidly for two points.

1) The best ever not to win an Olympic medal is Powell: He has the fastest time.

2) The best ever is Lewis.

Your opinions appear to be inconsistent, so to rail into posters like bad hammey who have made arguments similar to yours for Lewis seems a little strange.


Wrong, Daisy.

Powell doesn't have the "fastest" time (even among those who've never won an Olympic medal).

Wasn't that the same argument that people were using for Bolt vs Lewis. Squackee, at least, was criticized by speedfirst for such an argument.

Speedfirst wrote:P.S. I'll invite you as I have the other snubs, want to me to leave....make me leave. When did you last add anything related to the subject?

Some people like to read the threads and not post. I have to contribute now to be complain about you wrecking the threads?
Last edited by Daisy on Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:33 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:What I do see are personal attacks being thrown in his direction by you and the rest of the prude crew.

Stop . . . you're killing me . . . can't breathe . . . **GASP** . . . **CHOKE** :-) :-) :-) :-)
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:35 pm

Daisy wrote:The problem is you enter threads and troll (intentionally or not). You cause every thread to enter into a tail spin. It matters not who is involved in the cocktail. The only consistent thing is your presence.


Uh oh.

"They" are after you now, Speed.

The prude patrol has begun a full fledged propagandist attack in your direction complete with blaming you for the demise of every thread.

Nevermind that Daisy was clearly wrong as pointed out in my last post when he blamed you for the crimes actually committed by fellow prude patrollers. It doesn't matter. Don't expect an apology or a retraction.

Because you have a dissenting opinion based on a principle you believe in, they will proceed to make posts like the one Daisy made here in order to "influence" you a way from here. The next post will be something like "I can't believe the moderators haven't locked this thread." You know, the kind of statements that STL Runner and a few others make on a regular basis when they dont agree with a stated position.

Maybe the resident houseboy will come to your defense? Naw, I see where he's attacking you too in another thread.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:45 pm

Daisy wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:
Daisy wrote:It could help. But people choose to ignore the problem.

One observation speedfirst, recently you have come down solidly for two points.

1) The best ever not to win an Olympic medal is Powell: He has the fastest time.

2) The best ever is Lewis.

Your opinions appear to be inconsistent, so to rail into posters like bad hammey who have made arguments similar to yours for Lewis seems a little strange.


Wrong, Daisy.

Powell doesn't have the "fastest" time (even among those who've never won an Olympic medal).

Wasn't that the same argument that people were using for Bolt vs Lewis. Squackee, at least, was criticized by speedfirst for such an argument.

Speedfirst wrote:P.S. I'll invite you as I have the other snubs, want to me to leave....make me leave. When did you last add anything related to the subject?

Some people like to read the threads and not post. I have to contribute now to be complain about you wrecking the threads?


Just say that you were wrong, Daisy. Is it that hard?

You accused Speedfirst when in fact you didnt know the facts. You were WRONG when you said that Powell had the fastest time.

No? :-)

And no it wasnt him, it was ME who said Squackee's argument was inconsistent. In part because he agreed with gh's statement that if "Powell was the best (to never win Oly medal) he would have won one already." Which clearly didn't make sense because if he wins one then his name isnt in the thread to begin with! Without even thinking Squackee of course, agreed. See Squackee claimed that being fast was the reason Bolt was the best, but in this thread he agreed with a position that claimed being the fastest didn't make you the best.

See, thats where your criticism SHOULD be aimed but alas, it is not.

Who's suprised?

Speedfirst postion is that because Bolt is the fastest he isnt the best which is consistent with his belief that Powell is the best to never win a medal.

I think you owe Speedfirst an apology...lol
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Postby 2 cents » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:49 pm

Marlow wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:What I do see are personal attacks being thrown in his direction by you and the rest of the prude crew.

Stop . . . you're killing me . . . can't breathe . . . **GASP** . . . **CHOKE** :-) :-) :-) :-)


Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:39 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"7-sided" wrote:

It is not all of the former trackshark posters, but since the biggest offender is the one who posts most and is emotionally conditioned to rebut every post that constructively criticizes his style, it just seems that way.

It is also sad that the biggest offender has now tried to invoke the VICTIM card (and NOT too veiled race card, but I'm sure that will be disavowed ...) with disingenuous gems like:

- I'm from the "other side"
- fighting for acceptance has been the real world for me all my life
- portraying TFN.com as a clique of snobs and elites
- "own kind"

And then admit that he has no intention of following the rules of the community by saying

-I want to read opinions and post my own according to my own responsible thought provoking unique style.

After Trackshark shut down, that same poster was summarily "run off" of another board I read where the posters there were about 95% non-"old white men" because he tried to usurp their community with the same aggravating, hostile, defensive style. That board made TFN.com read like Harper's and he was crucified by the posters there. So, now he is here to ruin everyones experience because he could not 'hack it' in less friendlier confines. The exact behavioral characteristics of a Bully. A messageboard bully.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:54 pm

Speedfirst...

Where art thou's accusers?!?

LOL
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:57 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:Where art thou's accusers?!?L

Every thread you are in deteriorates. Does this happen on other message board too?
Last edited by Daisy on Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:05 pm

TrackDaddy wrote: Without even thinking Squackee of course, agreed.


I actually thought about it for days and that is why your insult hurts so deeply. I was totally wrong, ok what do i win?
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:08 pm

Dasiy...

Who Me?

What did I do but point out that YOU WERE WRONG and defend Speedfirst when YOU attacked him with misinformation?

And now you're turning your propagandists attitude on me by saying I made the thread deteriorate...lol.

Have you even commented on the thread topic from YOUR perspective?

Nope.

All you did was jump in and attack Speedfirst when you didn't have a clue what you were talking about.

Apologize. lol
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:12 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:
Daisy wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:Where art thou's accusers?!?L

Every thread you are in deteriorates. Does this happen on other message board too?

Me?

The royal you.

TrackDaddy wrote:All you did was jump in and attack Speedfirst when you didn't have a clue what you were talking about.

Apologize. lol

I agree it was not speedfirst, I just checked back and it was gh that made the comment about him being the 'fastest'.

But that was not the thrust of the point. My point was stop taking over the threads. Just read back over the thread. As soon as you two start arguing over definitions it is destroyed for the lurkers.
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Postby STL_Runner » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:16 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:You know, the kind of statements that STL Runner and a few others make on a regular basis when they dont agree with a stated position.

Hey, I made that statement ONE time. I didn't even state that I thought the thread SHOULD be locked, just that I had a feeling it was going to be considering every other thread about that topic always was.

I will say though that this thread, like many others, was going in the right direction until Speedfirst turned it into a pissing match with his typical "that's your opinion, not fact, you can ignore me, your choice, knock yourself out, I'll post how I want, your issue, not mine" rant.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:17 pm

Speedfirst and I didn't begin the argument over definitions of the word "best", Daisy.

GH did.

It was Speedfirst's opinion that was attacked...remember? Speedfirst merely agreed with me.

Didn't you just post that information? Did you read it first? What about after?

Do you people ever come clean?
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:32 pm

We know what the title of the thread is, stopping trying to put words into others mouths. We all have different opinions and criteria but you consider that people must not understand the title of the thread rather than accept that these differing opinions exist.

Speedfirst wrote:gh...the question isn't who was kept from the Olympics, that's another question and thread all by itself.


Speedfirst wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Meanwhile Powell was fifth twice in the Olympics.


Again you guys are adding qualifiers to the thread and that's not what the thread is about. So I guess now your opinion is Wiliams was better than Asafa and Asafa never won anything?


Speedfirst wrote:
DecFan wrote:Any sprinter who was the best 100m runner in the world for two years or more and never won an Olympic medal would be ahead of him on this list.

Not what the thread states, put those runners you're referring to resume up against Asafa.


TrackDaddy wrote:The thread question asked who's the best to never win an Olympic medal.

So how can someone claim in the same thread that someone is disqualified because "if they were the best they would have won one by now?!?!"


Speedfirst wrote:
bad hammy wrote:Why are you guys wasting all of our time running on about Asafa here? It is a moot point - Gay is demonstrably better than Powell and also lacks Olympic hardware.


Your opinion, especially as it relates to this thread, so we'll kindly continue, now you can decide not to.


All of the above is just side tracking the thread.

Only after all that did STL_Runner write.
STL_Runner wrote:Of course it's his opinion. That's what this thread is about! Why do insist on making posts like this on so many different threads?

Can we PLEASE get an Ignore feature on this site?

And you wonder why?
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Postby STL_Runner » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:46 pm

Daisy wrote:Only after all that did STL_Runner write.
STL_Runner wrote:Can we PLEASE get an Ignore feature on this site?

And you wonder why?

Let me clarify that the person I want to put on my ignore list is Speedfirst, not TrackDaddy. TrackDaddy cracks me up too much. I like having him around (most of the time, ha ha).
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Postby 2 cents » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:46 pm

Texas or Avante or whatever he chooses to call himself must be sitting back and laughing...
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:49 pm

Um, Daisy...you might want to examine your post by grasping the context.

My post that you quote is indeed factual and not based on any subjective position or criteria whatsoever.

None.

Go back and take a look or...

Just ask Squackee. :-)

That seems to be part of the problem. You either don't have all the facts or you're struggling to grasp them while being overly anxious to criticize and blame others.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:53 pm

STL_Runner wrote:
Daisy wrote:Only after all that did STL_Runner write.
STL_Runner wrote:Can we PLEASE get an Ignore feature on this site?

And you wonder why?

Let me clarify that the person I want to put on my ignore list is Speedfirst, not TrackDaddy. TrackDaddy cracks me up too much. I like having him around (most of the time, ha ha).


I like having you around too.

I mean FWIW since I doubt that me having that opinion will ever do you any good around here...lol
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Postby bad hammy » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:11 pm

I see td and sf have fucked up another thread - a huge surprise.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:04 pm

STL_Runner wrote:
Daisy wrote:Only after all that did STL_Runner write.
STL_Runner wrote:Can we PLEASE get an Ignore feature on this site?

And you wonder why?

Let me clarify that the person I want to put on my ignore list is Speedfirst, not TrackDaddy. TrackDaddy cracks me up too much. I like having him around (most of the time, ha ha).
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This from the guy who claimed and stated I hate him...surprise..surprise.
Speedfirst
 
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