Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters


Forum devoted to track & field items of an historical nature.

Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby Piglet » Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:31 am

Compare/Contrast

Who was better? Why?

What were the relative weak points and strong points of their races?

Did either of them ever race Alan Webb?
Piglet
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby The King » Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:41 am

>Compare/Contrast

Who was better? Why?

What
>were the relative weak points and strong points
>of their races?

Did either of them ever race
>Alan Webb?

Bob Hayes ran on a cinder track throughout his Track career.

Carl has had the pleasure of running on synthetic Tracks for all of his career.
And has also had the pleasure of running on the some of the fastest tracks of his generation (1980's: Seoul & Roma & 1990's: Tokyo & Atlanta,whilst jumping).

In contrast of careers.

Bob had a short, but fruitful career.
He was undefeated in the 1964 season, he won Gold medals in both the Men's 100m & 4x100m relay in the 1964 Tokyo OG that year.

OG:
100m: Gold, 1964.

4x100m: Gold, 1964.

US Championships:
100y: Gold, 1962 & 1963.

100m: Gold, 1964.

US Indoor Championships:
60y: Gold, 1964.

Whereas Carl has had a great, long career full of Golds at almost every major championships.

OG:
100m: Gold, 1984 & 1988.

200m: Gold, 1984.
Silver, 1988.

4x100m: Gold, 1984 & 1992.

Long Jump: Gold, 1984, 1988, 1992 & 1996.


WCH:
100m: Gold, 1983, 1987 & 1991.
4th place, 1993.

200m: Bronze, 1993.

4x100m: Gold, 1983, 1987 & 1991.

Long Jump: Gold, 1983 & 1987.
Silver, 1991.


Goodwill Games:
100m: Silver, 1990.
Bronze, 1986.
Equal 4th place, 1994.

4x100m: Gold, 1986 & 1994.

Long Jump: Gold, 1990.

US Championships:
100m: Gold, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1986 & 1990.

200m: Gold, 1983 & 1987.

Long Jump: Gold, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1986, 1987 & 1991.

US Indoor Championships:
60y: Gold, 1983.

Long Jump: Gold, 1982, 1983, 1984 & 1992.

Bob's relative weak point was his acceleration.
Much the same as Carl.

Both would have average reactions to the gun, but their acceleration (Drive Pahse) would be very gradual.

However both their Top Speeds were high
(27.89mph for Bob Hayes in 100y race in 1963. 1.1s for 15y, 60-75y represents a speed of 12.47m/s or 27.89mph on a cinder. 28.00mph for Carl Lewis in Los Angeles 1984 OG Men's 100m Final in the final 2m of the race.
Aprroximately 0.1598s for 2m. This represents a speed of 12.51m/s or 28.00mph)

And their finishes devastating.

That's what made them both great anchor men.
(Bob 8.6 hand-timed,worth 8.84s F.A.T & Carl 8.85s F.A.T)

I don't think either of them has ever raced against Alan Webb though...
The King
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby gh » Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:54 am

>Bob Hayes ran on a cinder track throughout his Track career.>>

Almost. When he ran history's first 9.1 at the 1963 AAU Championships in St. Louis, it was the first championship meet on a synthetic surface.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby The King » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:22 am

I meant throughout MOST of his career.

Thankyou for your correction...
The King
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby stevehj197 » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:57 am

and when Hayes won that 9.1 AAU race, T&FN's headline was " Hayes 'Bounces' 9.1" .
stevehj197
 
Posts: 532
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby Guest » Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:25 am

Bob "BULLET" HAYES is to my opinion the
highest potential ever met in track history...
The King of the many legends of sprint through
history like Carl LEWIS.
Guest
 

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby Guest » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:31 am

I don't have as many resources at my fingertips as some, but I do have the World Rankings issues. I remember that in the 100y/100m, over the 1962, '63 and '64 seasons Hayes had an average winning margin of 0.16 seconds over world-ranked foes with no losses.

If I had a time machine and could pick any sprinter for a 100m race, I'd go with Hayes. I also claim that Lewis is the greatest 100m man ever jsut by sheer wealth of accomplishments. I don't see any conflict in making these two statements.
Guest
 

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby BillCarr » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:08 am

I think a great "what if" would be if Hayes was allowed to continue athletics after he started his playing days in Dallas. Lewis' weight of accomplishments have a lot to do with his ability to continue to compete without the worry of the AAU on his back.

I mean, Hayes is a college student and runs what is a JAW-DROPPING race at Tokyo. Let's say Nike signs him to 150K per year with incentives for Mexico City and World Records. Or even let's say he starts playing football but trains from Jan-July for track. It would have been incredible - and I feel bad for all of those cornerbacks who got sent to the dry cleaners by Hayes' WR fly patterns.

Ah, the what if's.
BillCarr
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby gh » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:32 am

If you put Hayes under "modern" rules, instead of going to Florida A&M he goes to Florida State or Miami. At the former maybe he runs as a frosh at the latter he doesn't run at all. And in either case he turns pro after his sophomore year and we never hear of him.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby Arnie » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:48 am

It's hard to compare them, i didn't like Carl as a person but one thing you can never take away from him he seemed to always find a way to win the big one's. I think Carl just might have beaten Bob, to bad we will never know.
Arnie
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby tafnut » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:24 am

We've sorta had this thread several times before, but the bottom line is this: does anyone dispute my contention that, given the circumstances, Haye's Oly anchor in the 4x1, is the single greatest 100 (albeit flying) in the history of mankind? Whether is was 8.6 or 8.9, run on that track, in the Oly relay final, from behind, to a gaping lead, that performance overshadows the exploits of other personal favorites like Owens, Lewis, et al. I also like Monty and Mo, but it's no contest.
tafnut
 
Posts: 26684
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Lost at C (-minus)

Re: Lewis Vs. Hayes--100 meters

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:45 am

I know I'll probably get a lot of grief for this, but I believe Lewis top end speed was better than Hayes. However if Hayes would have done something simple like losing 5 to 7 pounds, I believe he would have been even faster.
The bottom lin is that Lewis may have had the worst start of all time for sub-10 second 100 meter runners.
Guest
 

Re: Lewis Vs Hayes--100 meters

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:02 am

I mean, Hayes is a college
>student and runs what is a JAW-DROPPING race at
>Tokyo. Let's say Nike signs him to 150K per year
>with incentives for Mexico City and World
>Records.

I think you mean adidias don't you?
Guest
 

Re: Lewis Vs. Hayes--100 meters

Postby The King » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:09 am

>I know I'll probably get a lot of grief for this,
>but I believe Lewis top end speed was better than
>Hayes. However if Hayes would have done
>something simple like losing 5 to 7 pounds, I
>believe he would have been even faster.
The
>bottom line is that Lewis may have had the worst
>start of all time for sub-10 second 100 meter
>runners.

I agree with the closing speed comment that you have made.

But as for your comment; 'The bottom line is that Lewis may have had the worst start of all time for sub-10 second 100 meter runners'

What about Donovan Bailey???

I not gonna bore you with the details of;
DB had this start, and DB had that start.

But what about DB's 0.174s RT in the Atlanta final, en-route to his ex-WR 9.84s???

Or are you talking about Carl's 'start', his drive pahse which is sometimes referred to as the start of the 100m?

If you are I agree with your comment...
Carl's 1st 20-40m was terrible... At the worst of times he found himself almost 0.10s behind 1st place at either of those points!...
The King
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Lewis Vs. Hayes--100 meters

Postby Per Andersen » Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:13 pm

> but I believe Lewis top end speed was better than Hayes.

Then you have to believe that Carl could have topped Hayes' OLY anchor run in '64. See Tafnut above. I simply think Carl could not have done that. I also believe that no sprinter that ever lived could have run 10.0 in that chewed up lane 1 in the Tokyo 100 exept Bob Hayes.
Per Andersen
 
Posts: 3737
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests