Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4


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Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:20 am

Does anyone recall this race its looks like it went down to the wire.

Was Flo Jo trailing the olympic champ Olga Bryzgina????

I wish I was old enough to even watch it...
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby gh » Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:24 am

Bryzgina took the baton about three strides up on Flojo. Flojo shadowed her for much of the race and we all kept wondering, "when will she make her move?" She pulled within a couple of strides on the final curve, but the Soviet pulled away from her in the stretch. Little wonder, since she ran 47.9. Not sure anybody else ever ran a 48.1 (as Flojo did) and lost ground!
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:24 am

Flo-Jo trailed the whole way. In fact, the gap between her and the lead runner stayed almost exactly the same throughout the race.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby 6 5.5hjsteve » Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:30 am

going strictly from vague memory, I think she was about 11 yards back, blasted after her, got within about 4 yards midway through the last turn, then sort of held that difference, losing a little to the tape. Ran about 48.7 . Lead gal ran about 49.0. I'm sure someone else will be more definitive.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby 6 5.5hjsteve » Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:31 am

well so much for my faulty memory; I defer to the experts !
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:09 am

FloJo was about 3 meters back when she got the baton, got within' a step, but couldnt overtake Bryzgina. By the end, I think FloJo was just hangin' on enough to maintain her stride. Regardless, one of the most exciting relay races ever! I say kudos to all involved, especially Valerie Hooks 3rd leg.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Slowrunner » Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:14 am

>going strictly from vague memory, I think she was
>about 11 yards back, blasted after her, got
>within about 4 yards midway through the last
>turn, then sort of held that difference, losing a
>little to the tape. Ran about 48.7 . Lead gal ran
>about 49.0. I'm sure someone else will be more
>definitive.

I guess I have to pull out the video and watch this again.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby #1 Track Stunna » Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:24 pm

I would love to see this race on tape!
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby waynehobley » Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:44 pm

Number 65—Olympic Women's 4 x 400, Seoul 1988

Figured to be a three-way match-up between the Soviets, East Germans and Americans, the Seoul relay turned out better than anyone had expected (except the East Germans). The U.S., keyed by Denean Howard's 49.7, got off to the early lead over the Soviets (50.1). On the second leg, Diane Dixon produced a sparkling 49.2, but was left in the wake of Olga Nazarova's 47.9.

Valerie Brisco brought the U.S. back into contention with her 48.5, as the Soviets managed only a 49.3, while the East Germans faded. The Soviets had a two-meter lead at the final hand-off, which set up a titanic confrontation between 400 winner Olga Bryzgina and triple gold medallist Florence Griffith Joyner.

Certainly, most Americans in the crowd expected Flojo to perform another miracle, even if she had just finished the 4 x 100 a half hour earlier. She got close, pulling to within a couple feet of the Russian. But Bryzgina had the best finish, and managed a 47.9 to hit the line in a world record 3:15.18. Flojo clocked 48.1, and brought the U.S. under the old best as well with a 3:15.51.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby 6 5.5hjsteve » Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:55 pm

dynamite narrative, Wayne, thanks ! And I'll pull out my old 1988 OG VCR tapes from network TV to watch it tonight.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:02 pm

Just as an indiication as how EVERYBODY was playing with a different deck in those days than we are now, I believe there were only two sub-50 splits in Paris last month.

TFN Olympic issue result show that in Seoul the Commies ran 50.1, 47.9, 49.3, 47.9. U.S. ran 49.7, 49.2, 48.5, 48.1. DDR ran 50.7, 49.6, 49.1, 48.9
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Powell » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:28 pm

>The U.S., keyed by Denean Howard's 49.7, got off >to the early lead over the Soviets (50.1).
>Valerie Brisco brought the U.S. back into
>contention with her 48.5, as the Soviets managed
>only a 49.3, while the East Germans faded.

What people don't realize is that even 'the Soviets' and 'the East Germans' were human beings and had names. The Soviet athletes concerned were Tatyana Ledovskaya (gold medallist in 400 hurdles) and Mariya Pinigina (WCh bronze medallist in 1983, PB 49.19).
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Pierre-Jean » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:03 am

More accurate split times can be found in ATHLETICS 2003
3:15.17 Ledovskaya 50.12 Nazarova 47.82 Pinigina 49.43 Bryzgina 47.80
3:15.51 Howard 49.82 Dixon 49.17 Brisco 48.44 Griffith-Joyner 48.08
3:18.29 Neubauer 50.58 Emmelmann 49.89 Busch 48.81 Müller 48.99.

Still #1, 2 and 7th all-time performances, and for me the most thrilling 4x4 relay ever.

The split times i have for those 2 fabulous anchor legs are:
Bryzgina 11.4 (11.3) 22.7 (11.9) 34.6 (13.2) 47.8
Griffith 11.6 (11.4) 23.0 (11.9) 34.9 (13.2) 48.1

Bryzgina took the baton after 2:27.37 and Griffith just a little after (2:27.43).
Griffith took the option to follow Bryzgina's pace, while Bryzgina choosed to attack in Griffith's speed reserve and lack of endurance after her crazy week (4 100m, 4 200m and 2 100m relay!). Griffith's start was too cautious and let Bryzgina fly away, but the gap was already 2.5 - 3 meters, and Griffith was never able to reduce it. If Griffith took the lead formt he start, the final result might have been different. If, if, if...
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:29 pm

What people don't realize is that even 'the Soviets' and 'the East Germans' were human beings and had names. The Soviet athletes concerned were Tatyana Ledovskaya (gold medallist in 400 hurdles) and Mariya Pinigina (WCh bronze medallist in 1983, PB 49.19).

Are their any pubications strictly about Soviet and East German sprinters. After watching the 4x100 team of (I believe it was Dreshler, Woekel', Koch and Gohr in the mid-80's one Sunday afternoon, I became intrigued. As far as the male runners from the Soviet they have had a history of great sprint relays. Even after Borzov retired from running, they have consistently been near the top in world championship and Olympic competition, however, I curious to know why the Male East German runners havent had as much success as their female counterparts. (Save Armin Hary in the 60 Olympics). In the 88 Olympics, after the U.S. 4 x 100 team was disqualified, it was nice to see the Soviet team get back on the map and win the gold. Naturally I like when the U.S. athletes win, but that doesnt mean other country's should roll over and concede any title.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Jon » Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:43 pm

>I am curious to know why the
>Male East German runners havent had as much
>success as their female counterparts.



It's because with "assistance" it's easier for the women to improve than it is for the men, as women don't have as much naturally ocurring testosterone in their body.

Manfred Hoppner, Sports Medical Service Deputy Director of the GDR, once said:

"Performances could be improved with the support of these drugs within four years as follows: Shot putt (men) 2.5-4 metres; Shot putt (women) 4.5-5m; Discus throw (men) 10-12m; Discus throw (women) 11-20m; Javelin throw (women) 8-15m, 400m (women) 4-5sec; 800m (women) 5-10sec, 1500m (women) 7-10 sec"

Although he hasn't given figures for the men's sprints, it's obvious that women benefitted more from the drugs given in the GDR than the men did.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Powell » Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:43 pm

The East German male 4x100 relay was still pretty good in the 1970s and 80s, though nowhere near as strong as the women.
WCh
1983 4th 38.51
OG
1972 5th 38.90
1976 2nd 38.66
1980 5th 38.73
European champs
1974 3rd 38.99
1978 2nd 38.78
1982 2nd 38.71
1986 2nd 38.64

On the other hand, the Soviets had much more success in the men's 4x1 than the women's.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Powell » Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:43 pm

Another point - Hary was actually a West German.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:40 am

Does anyone has the video or the race or any other races of the 1988 Olympic games, How much will u charge for a copy--Im a huge Flo-Jo fan!
Only Video shots have of her is the shots across the TV screen the day she died( showing old clips)...I would so greatly appreaciate it

thanks my email is Maconboi01@aol.com
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Jon » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:42 am

If you're based in the UK, then I'd be happy to lend my videos to you. However if you're in the US, then postage could be a bit costly....


I'm sure there are others on this board who can help you out (if you're based in the US).
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:01 am

Jon wrote: "It's because with "assistance" it's easier for the women to improve than it is for the men, as women don't have as much naturally ocurring testosterone in their body.

Manfred Hoppner, Sports Medical Service Deputy Director of the GDR, once said:

'Performances could be improved with the support of these drugs within four years as follows: Shot putt (men) 2.5-4 metres; Shot putt (women) 4.5-5m; Discus throw (men) 10-12m; Discus throw (women) 11-20m; Javelin throw (women) 8-15m, 400m (women) 4-5sec; 800m (women) 5-10sec, 1500m (women) 7-10 sec'

Although he hasn't given figures for the men's sprints, it's obvious that women benefitted more from the drugs given in the GDR than the men did."


I didn't think performance enhancement or speculation thereof was open for discussion in this forum (???)
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby DentyCracker » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:24 pm

I watched Flo-Jo run at the National Stadium in Sept. '87. She was awesome. I didn't get to watch the '88 Olympics Live as the electricity supply had been disrupted on Sept. 12 by Hurricane Gilbert. It was a very distressing time. I remember them announcing that Flo-Jo did 48.1 on her leg, then saying that Bryzgina had dine 47.9. I was flabbergasted.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:22 pm

Do you still have any footage of Flo Jo for sale/ lend? I'm very interested if you do. Please reply, and we can sort something out.

Cheers

Tom
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:22 pm

Do you still have any footage of Flo Jo for sale/ lend? I'm very interested if you do. Please reply, and we can sort something out.

Cheers

Tom
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:49 pm

>The East German male 4x100 relay was still pretty
>good in the 1970s and 80s, though nowhere near as
>strong as the women.
WCh
1983 4th 38.51
OG
>
1972 5th 38.90
1976 2nd 38.66
1980 5th
>38.73
European champs
1974 3rd 38.99
1978 2nd
>38.78
1982 2nd 38.71
1986 2nd 38.64

On the
>other hand, the Soviets had much more success in
>the men's 4x1 than the women's.

While trying to avoid the issue of race, I'd say that the Germans in general have been the most successful group of white sprinters (outside of the USA). Certainly true in pre-WWII days.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:47 pm

< I watched Flo Jo run at the National Stadium in Sept. 87. She was awesome >

I think awesome is a strong word. In 1987 Flo Jo competed at the World Championships and she was well beaten by an East German who took the sprint double. Maybe thats where she got the motivation to step up her performance level the following year. None of her performances anywhere in 1987 can be described as awesome.

In Seoul in '88 the Soviet anchor ran a very intelligent leg by attacking the first 200m and not waiting around for Flo Jo to turn on the speed in the homestretch. Nazarova at this years World Championship should have adopted a similar strategy and maybe....just maybe the result of the womens 4 x 400m might have been different.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby michael lewis » Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:24 am

"None of her performances anywhere in 1987 can be described as awesome."

Flo ran 21.96 to win silver at the world champs in 1987. If a sub 22 second 200 by a woman to be second on the planet isn't awesome, I'd like to hear what adjectives you'd reserve for Marion's winning performance at the WC in 2001 (22.38) or Kelli White's winning 22.05 in Paris.
How about boring?
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:24 am

There are some awesome video clips on this website. You can download them too and it works better. I think originally 'The King' had posted it. All Flo Jo's WR, Ben's WR, Ashford's 10.76, Koch's 47.6, Moses' 47.02 and some incredible Gohr videos here...

http://bubonicfilms.com/flicks/TnF/
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Guest » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:23 pm

Excellent, vintage vids...Thanks!
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby DentyCracker » Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:54 am

Read my sentence again. That day at the National Stadium she was awesome. The occasion was to celebrate 25 years of Jamaican independence. She ran several events that day including a mixed relay. Hehe, Butch Reynolds was there also, he ran a 400m in a disappointing 47.3 sec. Florence Griffith as she was known then, ran in some outrageous clothing that day. It was the first time I had seen anything like it. The meet had more of a carnival atmosphere than the usual track meet setting.
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Pierre-Jean » Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:25 am

DentyCracker, could you give her results for those various events, thanks in advance!
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby DentyCracker » Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:17 am

I didn't record them. I believe one might be able to get them from TVJ (Jamaican television station) who should have the tapes in their vault somewhere. I only remember the 47.3 by Butch because I thought it odd that he would produce a time identical to what my friend Lyndale Patterson had run two years prior, as a sixteen year old
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Re: Flo-Jo 1988 Seoul 4x4

Postby Pierre-Jean » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:58 am

Thanks.
The only result i have for her in that meet (18 September) is her win at 100m in 11.13 (wind +1.5).
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