What happened to the standing jumps?


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What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:53 pm

Does anyone know why and when the standing jumps were discontinued as official events? I think seeing a human jump 11' from a standing start would be pretty cool.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby The King » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:15 am

>Does anyone know why and when the standing jumps
>were discontinued as official events? I think
>seeing a human jump 11' from a standing start
>would be pretty cool.

They were discounted as major events after the 1912 Stockholm Olympic Games.

The World Records for Men & Women's standing jumps(according to the 1999 Edition of the Guiness Book of Records) are as follows;

Men SLJ: 3.71m,(12ft 2in)by Arne Tveraag(Norway/NOR)in 1968.

Women SLJ: 2.92m,(9ft 7in)by Annelin Mannes(Norway/NOR)in March 1981.

Men SHJ(Standing High Jump): 1.90m(!)
(6ft 2 3/4 in)by Rune Almen(Sweden/SWE)at Karlstad,Sweden on 3rd May 1980.

Women SHJ: 1.52m,(4ft 11 3/4 in)by Grete Bjordalsbakka(Norway/NOR) in 1984.

The following information comes from David Wallechinsky's 'The complete book of the Olympics'(2000 Edition)

The 3 medallists in each of the three standing jumps from every OG from 1900-1912 were:

Standing High Jump
1904 St Louis
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 1.60m (5ft 3in)
2nd place, Joseph Stadler(USA) 1.45m (4ft 9in)
3rd place, Lawson Robertson(USA) 1.45m (4ft 9in)

1906 Athens
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 1.56m (5ft 1 1/4in)
=2nd place, Leon Duport(BEL) 1.40m (4ft 7in)
=2rd place, Lawson Robertson (USA) 1.40m (4ft 7in)
=2nd place, Martin Sheridan(USA) 1.40m (4ft 7in)

1908 London
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 1.575m (5ft 2in)
=2nd place, John Biller(USA) 1.55m (5ft 1in)
=2nd place, Konstantinos Tsiklitiras(GRE) 1.55m
(5ft 1in)

1912 Stockholm
1st place, Platt Adams(USA) 1.63m (5ft 4in)
2nd place, Benjamin Adams(USA) 1.60m (5ft 3in)
3rd place, Konstantinos Tsiklitiras(GRE) 1.55m
(5ft 1in)
Platt & Benjamin Adams were both brothers. Platt was 27 yo & Ben was 22yo at the time of competing in the 1912 Stockholm OG.

Standing Long Jump
1900 Paris
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 3.30m (10ft 10in)
2nd place, Irving Baxter(USA) 3.135m
(10 ft 3 1/4in)
3rd place, Emile Torcheboeuf(FRA) 3.03m
(9ft 11 1/4in)

1904 St Louis
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 3.476m (11ft 4 7/8in)
2nd place, Charles King(USA) 3.28m (10ft 9in)
3rd place, John Biller(USA) 3.26m (10ft 8 1/4in)

1906 Athens
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 3.30m (10ft 10in)
2nd place, Martin Sheridan(USA) 3.095m (10ft 1in)
3rd place, Lawson Robertson (USA) 3.05m
(10ft 0in)

1908 London
1st place, Ray Erwy(USA) 3.335m (10ft 11 1/4in)
2nd place, Konstantinos Tiklitiras(GRE) 3.235m (10ft 7 1/4in)
3rd place, Martin Sheridan(USA) 3.23m (10ft 7in)

1912 Stockholm
1st place, Konstantinos Tsiklitiras(GRE) 3.37m (11ft 0 3/4in)
2nd place, Platt Adams(USA) 3.36m (11ft 0 1/4in)
3rd place, Benjamin Adams(USA) 3.28m (10ft 9in)

Standing Triple Jump
1900 Paris
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 10.58m (34ft 8 1/2in)
2nd place, Irving Baxter(USA) 9.95m
(32 ft 7 3/4in)
3rd place, Robert Garrett(USA) 9.50m (31ft 2in)

1904 St Louis
1st place, Ray Ewry(USA) 10.54m (34 ft 7 1/4in)
2nd place, Charles King(USA) 10.16m (33ft 4in)
3rd place, Joseph Stadler(USA) 9.60m (31ft 6in)

I have more info on Standing Jumps , if you want any more info e-mail me on;

elnatto7@hotmail.com
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby 6 5.5hjsteve » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:27 am

That exclamation point of the 1.90 ( 6' 2 3/4" ) "world best" HJ is on the money !

HJ'ers out there, anybody ever tried this ??
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:00 am

I've no idea what happened to these events, but I wouldn't bet that even 100 years ago, someone realized that these were not very interesting for the spectators. We should not be looking for opportunities to add events that are likely to turn off fans and would-be fans, and I think the standing jumps would do just that.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:47 am

In Tsiklitiria, the annual Green Grand Prix in Athens (Trikala in 2003), there is usually a standing long jump competition included to honor of course the memory of Tsiklitiras who won numerous Olympic medals in the standing events.
2002 results (I don't think they had it in 2003):
1. ARMENIAKOS Emilios GRE 3.23
2. ISIHOS Antonios GRE 2.99
3. ARVANITIS Evangelos GRE 2.99
4. KOKKORIS Georgios GRE 2.95
5. ZACHOS Dimitrios GRE 2.89
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:49 am

>In Tsiklitiria, the annual Green Grand Prix in
>Athens (Trikala in 2003), there is usually a
>standing long jump competition included to honor
>of course the memory of Tsiklitiras who won
>numerous Olympic medals in the standing
>events.
2002 results (I don't think they had it
>in 2003):
1. ARMENIAKOS Emilios GRE 3.23
2.
>ISIHOS Antonios GRE 2.99
3. ARVANITIS Evangelos
>GRE 2.99
4. KOKKORIS Georgios GRE 2.95
5.
>ZACHOS Dimitrios GRE 2.89

Read Greek instead of Green!
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby The King » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:41 am

>That exclamation point of the 1.90 ( 6' 2 3/4"
>) "world best" HJ is on the money !

HJ'ers
>out there, anybody ever tried this ??

I believe that Javier Sotomayer or Charles Austin could do a standing high-jump over 2m, as they are both very explosive.

And possibly Stefan Holm, he seems very springy.
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What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:49 am

Would an athlete's standing high jump technique be much different than what is executed when one is being measured for "vertical leap"? It appears so, as the best standing high jump heights approach 6 feet and change, while even the verified verticals of the springiest basketballers vary between 3 and 4 feet from a standstill. What accounts for the difference?

When my dad was a Boston schoolboy in the late 1950's, city track meets still included the standing broad as an event. When I was a little kid he told me he had jumped 8'6" once.

Bijan
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby The King » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:25 pm

Yes.
Standing High Jump technuiques used to be(and probably still are, if the event is even rarely contested) either;

Eastern roll/straddle,
Scissor kick &
Fosbury flop.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby 6 5.5hjsteve » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:29 pm

The King,

then the acceptable way to start a jump then, would probably be with legs apart, both on ground, simulating the last step of a run, then rocking back then blasting forward and UP ?
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby dj » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:52 pm

No, the legal technique was the same as in the other two standing jumps. Feet together, taking off both feet simultaneously. No rocking, no taking off one foot.
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What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:55 pm

Is there an official WR for height jumped above one's own stature, and if so, does Franklin Jacobs own it?

I'd still be interested to see the technique employed by trackmen in a standing jump that allows the best to clear a bar far higher than say- the vertical leap of a Michael Wilson (touches an 11'10" rasied basketball rim), David Thompson or Darrell Griffith.

An aside, is it true Thompson won the ACC triple jump competition in his first year of participation in the event? I recall reading that in "SI" and hearing track coaches say it.

Bijan
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby tandfman » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:57 pm

>Is there an official WR for height jumped above
one's own stature<

No, there is not.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:10 pm

>I've no idea what happened to these events, but I
>wouldn't bet that even 100 years ago, someone
>realized that these were not very interesting for
>the spectators. We should not be looking for
>opportunities to add events that are likely to
>turn off fans and would-be fans, and I think the
>standing jumps would do just that.

I disagree. I think people can relate to the standing jumps, because they likely have participated in them in PE class and in regular childhood play.
There used to be an exhibit (maybe there still is) at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago that involved the standing long jump. A person could jump and compare his/her mark to that of Ray Ewry. It was a pretty popular exhibit.
Also, It seems a bit silly to say that events like the standing jumps would be the thing that could turn off fans and would-be-fans from watching Track and Field. Do you really think that an event that could be run concurrently with other events, giving fans the option of watching or ignoring, would drive them away? Similarly, can you actually imagine a person thinking "well, I was going to make track and field my hobby but when I found out they have standing jumps I got pissed and went for pottery instead"? I can't. I would love to see the standing jumps included in some meets again.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby The King » Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:52 am

>The King,

then the acceptable way to start a
>jump then, would probably be with legs apart,
>both on ground, simulating the last step of a
>run, then rocking back then blasting forward and
>UP ?

Yep.
That was the way which was displayed most when standing hig-jumping(or SLJ and STJ for that matter)
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby dj » Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:19 am

No, rocking was not allowed, and a two-feet takeoff was required. Check the Ray Ewry photo at

http://www.olympic.org/uk/athletes/hero ... I_ID=58689
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby The King » Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:28 am

Oh yes your quite.
When reading about standing jumps, I now remember that rocking was not allowed.

That's why there called the 'STANDING' jumps
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:22 pm

This is so absurdly arcane, ya gotta love it!! I agree that seeing a few standing jump contests would be amusing, but it's absurd to think that they would be effective/visible to a stadium audience--the "action" is way too minimal. It would be roughly akin to watching a chess match at 50 yards. No-Doze Time!

Why not revive a whole slew of other 19th century events: the shot put with both hands (winning distance is total of two puts); the mile walk (NOOOOOOO!); the 5 mile run (fine); the pole vault (climbing style, of course); the 3-legged race; and all the odd distances imaginable (records were kept for the mile, 1-1/8 mile, 1-1/4 mile, 1-1/2 mile, 1-3/4 mile, etc.) The possibilities are nearly endless. And just think of all the new fans that would flock to see this exciting new sport!!!!!!
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:46 pm

>This is so absurdly arcane, ya gotta love it!! I
>agree that seeing a few standing jump contests
>would be amusing, but it's absurd to think that
>they would be effective/visible to a stadium
>audience--the "action" is way too minimal. It
>would be roughly akin to watching a chess match
>at 50 yards. No-Doze Time!

Why not revive a
>whole slew of other 19th century events: the shot
>put with both hands (winning distance is total of
>two puts); the mile walk (NOOOOOOO!); the 5 mile
>run (fine); the pole vault (climbing style, of
>course); the 3-legged race; and all the odd
>distances imaginable (records were kept for the
>mile, 1-1/8 mile, 1-1/4 mile, 1-1/2 mile, 1-3/4
>mile, etc.) The possibilities are nearly
>endless. And just think of all the new fans that
>would flock to see this exciting new sport!!!!!!

The standing jumps are actually 20th century events. What makes them different from the events you mentioned is that there is nothing even similar in track and field today. There is still a shot put (it's just a bit different), walks (different distances but the event still exists), and so on for the rest of the events. But the standing jumps were very different from other events and were not replaced by anything similar. It would be like eliminating all the running jumps or weight events.

I also thought that maybe it was difficult for spectators to see and become involved in these events. Because they would occupy such a small area of the track and the distances/heights jumped are so much less than the running jumps it may not be suited to a large stadium. But I don't know if that situation is the reason for the events discontiuation (or even if it is true).
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:57 pm

I forgot the tug-of-war...sorry.

I disagree with your basic point that the standing jumps are unique in nature. They were replaced, or pushed aside, by the RUNNING jumps--which reflect the same basic action, but more dramatic to watch and produce greater distances. If I had to choose between, say, the standing high jump and the running high jump, I'd go with the latter every time.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:18 pm

>I forgot the tug-of-war...sorry.

I disagree
>with your basic point that the standing jumps are
>unique in nature. They were replaced, or pushed
>aside, by the RUNNING jumps--which reflect the
>same basic action, but more dramatic to watch and
>produce greater distances. If I had to choose
>between, say, the standing high jump and the
>running high jump, I'd go with the latter every
>time.
The running jumps were separate events that occurred even when the standing jumps were still olympic events. They never replaced the standing jumps, rather the standing jumps were just dropped. Running jumps with, their one legged takeoff and their long run-up are very different. Definitely not even close to the same basic action involved in the standing jumps. If you still don't agree go try each and you'll see how different they really are.
The standing jumps were once a major Olympic event. They were unique (unless you're kuha1), and were dropped. I am curious as to why. I would still be interested in them as a spectator, but I would guess that I'm in the minority in that interest.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby DentyCracker » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:00 am

I think Germaine Mason would be good at the standing high jump. I saw him clear 2.08 off a very short run when he was 15 at Boys Champs (Jamaican National High School Champs). that was his first year in the event
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:47 am

Huh? There's no comparison between a short runup jump off one leg and and standing jump off both legs. As soon as you put lateral motion into play you've changed the parameters completely.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:00 am

"The running jumps were separate events that occurred even when the standing jumps were still olympic events. They never replaced the standing jumps, rather the standing jumps were just dropped. Running jumps with, their one legged takeoff and their long run-up are very different. Definitely not even close to the same basic action involved in the standing jumps. If you still don't agree go try each and you'll see how different they really are.
The standing jumps were once a major Olympic event. They were unique (unless you're kuha1), and were dropped. I am curious as to why. I would still be interested in them as a spectator, but I would guess that I'm in the minority in that interest."


For what it's worth, I was a high jumper in high school about 145 years ago and I DID experiment with the standing jump. You're correct to the degree that the specific action involved in the two styles is different. However, that's not really enough in my book to qualify the standing jumps as "unique" or deserving of revival. The basic goal in both the standing and running jumps is, after all, the same: JUMPING in order to clear a bar or cover a horizontal distance. We, obviously, magnify our jumping ability by adding the lateral energy of the run, which produces greater distances and a more exciting event to watch. The standing jumps, it seems to me, are rather like a 10 meter sprint event: it would be a perfectly legitimate test of an athlete's reaction time and explosive ability, but would be of truly minimal interest to watch.

You are correct that the standing jumps were not standard 19th century events--I was a bit surprised to remember that as I plowed back through my library. That's a credit to the sense of the athletics establishment of the 1870s and '80s. The fact that the standing jumps were an early 20th century invention/innovation that was relatively quickly dropped says something about their overall relevance or appeal.

I appreciate your partisanship for the standing events, but still feel that jumping is best done with a running start. Sorry.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:50 am

For what
>it's worth, I was a high jumper in high school
>about 145 years ago and I DID experiment with the
>standing jump. You're correct to the degree that
>the specific action involved in the two styles is
>different. However, that's not really enough in
>my book to qualify the standing jumps as
>"unique" or deserving of revival. The basic
>goal in both the standing and running jumps is,
>after all, the same: JUMPING in order to clear a
>bar or cover a horizontal distance. We,
>obviously, magnify our jumping ability by adding
>the lateral energy of the run, which produces
>greater distances and a more exciting event to
>watch. The standing jumps, it seems to me, are
>rather like a 10 meter sprint event: it would be
>a perfectly legitimate test of an athlete's
>reaction time and explosive ability, but would be
>of truly minimal interest to watch.

You are
>correct that the standing jumps were not standard
>19th century events--I was a bit surprised to
>remember that as I plowed back through my
>library. That's a credit to the sense of the
>athletics establishment of the 1870s and '80s.
>The fact that the standing jumps were an early
>20th century invention/innovation that was
>relatively quickly dropped says something about
>their overall relevance or appeal.

I
>appreciate your partisanship for the standing
>events, but still feel that jumping is best done
>with a running start. Sorry.

I agree that a lack of interest is what dropped these events. It's hard to get people excited about someone clearing close to 6' when there is someone down the track clearing close to eight feet.

However, to say that the standing jumps are the essentially shotened versions of the running jumps (your 10m sprint example) with the same basic goal is a poor argument. The same could be said of the 100; that it is just a short 10k and really of no interest. Or that the 10k is not exciting because the running is so much slower than, say, the 400m. These are not necessarily true statements.

The standing jumps are very unique (kuha1 is dead wrong on this) events that test something very different in a person from that which is tested with the running jumps. I don't think that their revival is, or necessarily should be, imminent. It would be interesting, though, to see them included in a few small meets and even to keep an unofficial world record (like the 300m or the 150m). It may be difficult to get dedicated competitors though. It's just surprising to me that a strange event like the triple jump (which I love) has persisted, but not one of the standing jumps has. Maybe they really were that boring.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:27 am

We clearly disagree, but on a point that probably no one else in the world cares about.

I would suggest that your dismissal of my 10 meter race analogy is, itself, wrong. My "proposal" would test pure reaction time and explosiveness, NOT running form, endurance, or any of the other components of what it takes to run 100 meters. So, the 10 meter is actually quite different from a full 100 meter sprint--just about as different as the standing high jump to the running high jump. The rest of your argument on this matter (400 to 10k) thus collapses. Further, I simply cannot agree that the standing disciplines are radically different in nature from the running jumps. Different in specific technique, yes; in overall objective, an emphatic NO.

But again, we don't have to worry about any of this. There is not the slightest danger that the standing jumps will be revived. Any of us are welcome to do them--as Larry Rawson would say--at our local high school track. But don't expect to see them at the Olympics again.

That's it...gotta run! (I recommend it!)
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:03 am

>We clearly disagree, but on a point that probably
>no one else in the world cares about.

I
>would suggest that your dismissal of my 10 meter
>race analogy is, itself, wrong. My "proposal"
>would test pure reaction time and explosiveness,
>NOT running form, endurance, or any of the other
>components of what it takes to run 100 meters.
>So, the 10 meter is actually quite different
>from a full 100 meter sprint--just about as
>different as the standing high jump to the
>running high jump. The rest of your argument on
>this matter (400 to 10k) thus collapses.
>Further, I simply cannot agree that the
>e standing disciplines are radically different in
>nature from the running jumps. Different in
>specific technique, yes; in overall objective, an
>emphatic NO.

But again, we don't have to
>worry about any of this. There is not the
>slightest danger that the standing jumps will be
>revived. Any of us are welcome to do them--as
>Larry Rawson would say--at our local high school
>track. But don't expect to see them at the
>Olympics again.

That's it...gotta run! (I
>recommend it!)

Kuha1, I thought my point must not be clear to you. But I'm obviously wrong because you've clearly stated it. To quote the above "So, the 10 meter is actually quite different from a full 100 meter sprint--just about as
different as the standing high jump to the running high jump."

That is my point. Depending on one's particular view any running event is essentially the same as any other running event (with either slower or faster running involved). But to a track fan we can see that the 400m and the 10k, for instance, are very different while both are still running events and identical in objective as well.
Using your (il)logic, we would say that the high jump and the pole vault are essentially the same event because they have the same objective, who can clear the greatest height. Carrying your thought process further we would get rid of the one which you found most boring. Realize that some events are interesting to some people and other events are interesting to other people. I doubt that I am the only one who would find the standing jumps interesting if included in a few small meets per year.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:15 am

OK, let's pummel this utterly to death. My point is that what we are talking about is a difference that isn't really significant. The key in my quote above is that the 10m "race" is AS DIFFERENT from the 100m as the standing jump is to the running jump. That is, YES, there clearly is A difference in what is physically done, but a difference that is that is too arcane to matter. And by "matter", I mean to really interest anyone and to be worth focusing on. Are we curious about how high one might leap from a standing start? Sure, I'll go along with you on that. But....so what? I guess I'm also interested in how far the best shot putters can throw the shot from the "power throw" position (without spinning or sliding, etc.) But I have no interest in that becoming a separate event.

You are advocating a few meets every year with various standing jumps, and from what is reported above there DO seem to be a handful of such meets. Now you just need to convince T&FN to report the results.
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby gh » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:31 am

ok, let's NOT pummel this death (as if it isn't already). This has degenerated to a 2-man dialogue;if you want to continue, take it off line. Thread is now closed to Kuha and Steve. Thanks foryour understanding.

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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Powell » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:50 am

Hey, there's no need to be such a control freak... While I didn't think it was the most interesting thread ever, I was more or less following the discussion. In any case, it was a legitimate topic, had relevance to T&F, and nobody said anything objectionable. Why couldn't you just let it continue?
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:46 am

"The power of the press belongs to he who owns the press" (or something like that)
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby gh » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:21 am

>Hey, there's no need to be such a control freak>>

Funny, that's what my ex-wives said; look what it got them!
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:57 am

At least Powell and Kuha were lucky they didn't cross Ben Hall, like Krizler did in the Flojo thread. They got a cold-medication slap while the other guy got a steroid bust! (See, you can turn any thread into a drug-related one if you try hard enough)
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Re: What happened to the standing jumps?

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:31 am

My history books tell me that Jim Thorpe was almost unbeatable in the standing jumps. Although he did not compete in them in meets he whipped the best in the USA at the practice track like it was not even an effort for him. Don't know if it is true but given his talent I'd have to think it was possible.

Legend has it that while checking into a hotel before the Olympics many of the USA T&F athletes were standing around and the High Jumpers started a competition to see if anyone could touch the chandelier from a standing position. The hurdlers and a few other joined in and the closest anyone got was about 4-6" below it. Jim walked up asked what they were doing and said it didn't look that hard and in his street clothes jumped up and hit it, almost knocking it off the ceiling.

Again I have no way to verify this as fact but it's one heck of a legend about a man who was legendary.
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