What if no war in 1940 .... part 1


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What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Falken » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:20 am

Who would have bin the winners in 1940 ?
Part 1 : the sprints

On the US scene, new name Hal Davis, was the best. He won the AAU in 10,3 ahead of Ewell 10,4 (10,34 !!! actually, strangeley enough nobody seems to lnow Davis autotime...) and Billy Brown (10,6/10,59 !)
Big names Morris, Peacock (!!) and Ellerbe finished 4th, 5th and 6th.
Jeffrey, another potenial winner, was second and injured in the NCAA won by Ewell (who also won the IC4A.

On the other side of the Atlantic Osendarp was competing but out of shape. The best seemed to be German Mellerowicz and Italian Momti.


My guess for the OG final;
1. Davis
2. Ewell
3. Mellerowicz
4. Brown
5. Monti
6. Strandberg
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Guest » Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:57 am

I'll agree. Ewell was the only one who beat Davis over a 4-year stretch (besides once when Davis fell at the start and still took second). Davis would have been a pure lock for the 200--as far as I know, he never got beat after he turned 18.
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Falken » Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:31 am

Are you sure he was 2'nd in the race during which he fell (L.A. may 17'th) ?
According to my notes he was only fourth
It would solve a long time mistery for me (namely who was second and thid... Ellerbe won in 9.7)
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Per Andersen » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:59 pm

Yes you are right Davis was 4th in the May 17 100yds in L.A. in '40. I don't have 2nd and 3rd either. I doubt Davis would have been a lock in the 200m around the turn in an Olympic Games in '40. He was only 19 then and I think Ewell would probably have been favored. 200 on a straight track would maybe have been a different story.
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Per Andersen » Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:19 pm

Hey, the premise was no war in '40 and then Osendarp would not be out of shape. That would mean bronze in the 100 for the Dutchman.
By the way Falken are you related to Hauken?
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Falken » Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:22 pm

I'm not quite as sure that Osendarp would have grasped third in the 1940 OG.
He WAS racing (actually sitting rather good with the nazis...) and was in splendid form in the following years....


As for the 200 it would indeed have bin a contest between Davis and Ewell. The curve would have bin a factor, but I think Davis would have pulled it out. Remember he beat Ewell by 3 tenth of a second (20. 4 against 20,7 (20.63) - again no autoime for Davis .. pity !)


1. Davis
2. Ewell
3. Mellerowicz
4. Any american who would have qualified.. Tarrant, Morris, Brown, .......
5. Monti
6. ???


By the way... If Davis autotime for the hundered had bin "saved" it might (most possibly) have bin the world first sub 10,30..... 20 years before Hary...
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Per Andersen » Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:06 am

You are right about Davis beating Ewell in the 200 in Philadelphia but that was on a straight track and I thought that was in '41 or '42. Did Davis go east in '40? It's been a while since I looked at these things and I have no documentation with me at this time. However, I'll say this. Had there been OG's in '40 or '44 Davis would very likely been a more accomplished turn runner. It is just that in '40 I believe Ewell still would have had a fair chance against him.
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Falken » Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:51 am

It's a hard question to answer.
Ewell had a best of 21,1y around the turn and 20,7m on a straight track in 1940.
Davis ran 20,4m for the straight and probably never tried the turn....
If the Olympics had taken place he most likely would have practiced on the curve but who knows .... My guess is he would have caught Ewell on the line.


The AAU 1940 was in Fresno
1. Favis 20,4
2. Ewell 20,7 (20,63 !!)
3. Leo Tarrant 21,2 est.
4. J. O'Reilly
5. E. O'Sullivan
6. E. greenridge

The 1941 AAU was run in Philadelphia

1. Davis 20,4m
2. Wewell 20,5
3. Payton Jordan 20,6
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby dj » Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:03 am

Falken makes several comments about "lost" auto times for winners, when there are times for placers. What was not uncommon was that there was a photo timer, but the gun was not connected, or there was a malfunction with the start signal. Thus, no auto times.

However, the film could still be developed, showing the difference between places. If the winner had run a hand-timed 20.4, and second was 0.23 behind first, then the runner-up would be given 20.7 (usually, based on the discretion of the judges, although this might be challenged based on any official hand times). This also might be listed officially as 20.63, as was done for the place times at the 1958 NCAA in Berkeley.
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Falken » Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:35 am

Dave,

You may very well be rught, but french ATFS-statistican regards Ewels 20,63 and 10,34 as legit in his works...

He might ofcourse be wrong.

Your explanasion sounds very beliviable...
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby Falken » Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:37 am

Ooops,

forgot to mention his name (the ATFS-stastican)...it's Jean-Claude Patinaud.
He's bein reasrching auto-times for decades now...
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Re: What if no war in 1940 .... part 1

Postby dj » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:28 am

Falken--

Contact me on the side at
davidsj@pobox.upenn.edu and we can go into this more fully.
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