I think my problem.........


Forum devoted to track & field items of an historical nature.

Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:41 am

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80 OG 100m

Postby Rog » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:54 am

With regard to Allan Wells choking in the 80 Olympic 100m final, which he won in the relatively slow time of 10.25, don't forget that everyone's times were down in that race, suggesting the effect of adverse atmospheric conditions rather than individual temperament. The likes of Woronin and Panzo couldn't break 10.4 and these were world class sprinters. Petar Petrov took the bronze in 10.39 and he had run 10.13 in the QF so he was obviously in form, yet Wells beat him by .14!

James Sanford showed incredible form in early 80 (9.88w I think) but was injured for most of the season, which turned out to be the bane of his career. None of the other US sprinters was performing at the level of more recent stars like Lewis or Greene at that time, and they certainly didn't have their domination either. In his first post OG 100m Wells faced the top Americans and beat them. After then he had passed his peak, however one would expect that in their first encounter with the new OG champ the Americans would have been most anxious to secure victory, yet couldn't.

Also worth remembering that no less an authority than Don Quarrie said that Wells 200m in the 81 Golden Sprints was the greatest half-lap he had ever seen, which considering his own achievements was quite a gracious comment.
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Postby dj » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:05 am

Vern wrote:
ajp wrote:Thanks. Anyone know about Eddie Tolan? He must have still been young enough in '36?


Retired. He was already one year out of college when he won OG in '32. Also remember that the Depression had hit. Not capitalizing on one's athletic fame at that time (and thus professionalizing one's self) could have been economic suicide.
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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:34 am

Vern wrote:
Brutal wrote:
gh wrote:
Brutal wrote:Did Robert Taylor not beat Borzov on the anchor of a 4x1? Sure he did! They started out even!


I'll assume you mean Hart, not Taylor, but the answer remains a clear no. Borzov was about 0.3 down when he got the stick, according to the T&FN story, and that jibes with my memory (I was there--were you?). Athletics Arena, a now-defunct British publication, puts the gap at 4m.


Nope wrong race. It was Texas Southern's Robert Taylor who smoked him. Hart handed off to him. There is a picture of this in one of the Track&Field News issues. Not sure which one. It shows Hart screaming at Taylor.I'm guessing ..."GO!"

Go ahead check it out.

I saw it on TV. Trust me I know who Robert Taylor was.


Call me a cynic, but I'll take a one metre, easing up, 100m OG over an obscure relay anchor defeat any time. Bet Taylor would too.

Wells - he was a formidable competitor. Only "major" I can think of where he didn't do himself justice was the 78 Europeans (Borzov's last race, IIRC), which (IIRC again) was at the end of Wells' breakthrough season, and after the Commonwealths.

Don't forget he beat Christie in 86 - no other Brit managed that for a decade.

Pop quiz - and who was that next Brit?


Point was that Borzov wasn't invincible. Yes Robert Taylor beat him with stick in hand, yes he didn't face the top two Americans and yes Larry Black had that tight lane 1. Just facts!
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Postby Andrea_T » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:42 am

Rob wrote: That looks like my friend Fr. Bußmann who is being referred to in your signature...

49.75 drugs-free in 1983. And attractive.


Sure is. Harsh comments from Kratochvilova after bein gcriticised by Gaby in the press. But very amusing though!
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Postby paulthefan » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:28 am

Brutal wrote:Point was that Borzov wasn't invincible. Yes Robert Taylor beat him with stick in hand, yes he didn't face the top two Americans and yes Larry Black had that tight lane 1. Just facts!



And a point that you have yet to make convincing... if I am the best and my competitors dont show up should I be viewed as any less than best... Im a big fan of Larry Black and a big critic of the lane 1 curse in the 200 but to suggest that Borzov was anything less than a monster in the 200 is making you sound weird.... almost as weird as your firm conviction that Randy Moss was a 9.7 100y man as a 14 year old.

from now on .. please Just the facts.
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Postby gh » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:57 am

Brutal wrote:
gh wrote:
Brutal wrote:Did Robert Taylor not beat Borzov on the anchor of a 4x1? Sure he did! They started out even!


I'll assume you mean Hart, not Taylor, but the answer remains a clear no. Borzov was about 0.3 down when he got the stick, according to the T&FN story, and that jibes with my memory (I was there--were you?). Athletics Arena, a now-defunct British publication, puts the gap at 4m.


Nope wrong race. It was Texas Southern's Robert Taylor who smoked him. Hart handed off to him. There is a picture of this in one of the Track&Field News issues. Not sure which one. It shows Hart screaming at Taylor.I'm guessing ..."GO!"

Go ahead check it out.

I saw it on TV. Trust me I know who Robert Taylor was.


I can't find any evidence of any such race. Taylor didn't run against Borzov in the US-USSR of either '71 or '73 (which would have nothing to do with the Olympics anyway), nor did he anchor at either of the pre-Oly meets in Munich where the U.S. ran. May have happened, but I can't find it.
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Postby EPelle » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:12 am

The only Taylor-anchored team ranked in 1971:

#21 (performance)
39,6my
Ron Washington, W. Polk, Er. Williams, R. Taylor 1 Pasadena TX 28-May-1971

Borzov-anchored team in 1971:

#9 (performance)
39,2m
Pankratov, Kuzhukin, Zorkin, Borzov URS 1 NC Moskva 16-Jul-1971
_______________________________________

Taylor anchored no sub-40,00 teams in 1972
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Re: 80 OG 100m

Postby eldrick » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:53 am

Rog wrote:Petar Petrov took the bronze in 10.39 and he had run 10.13 in the QF so he was obviously in form, yet Wells beat him by .14!


a guy i never even heard of runs 10.13 ( ? legal time ), only 0.02s slower than well's lifetime best, set at same meet

so wells wasn't alone in setting a lifetime pb there

if an "unknown" coud set a pb within 0.02s of wells, i'm convinced now that it was possible for 1 - 3 more "established" sprinters ( i.e. the missing US guys ) to have done the same

atmospheric conditions may have slowed the final, but it looks to me they affected wells more than leonard, seeing as well's had a faster time during the meet ( & possibly sb ) than silvio

if silvio "coped" with the conditions better than wells, i see no reason that 1 or more of the US guyz coudn't have done the same

the postulation that wells & the europeans handled the conditions better woud have been better suited if wells/petrov had dead-heated & silvio placed 0.14s behind them, as silvio was a sprinter used to similar weather conditions as the americans, so if he coped with them, than the possibility that 1 or more of the missing 3 coud have done so is eminently possible

i'm more convinced than ever, that at least 1 or more of the 3 US guys was capable of the gold in view of the above

After then he had passed his peak, however one would expect that in their first encounter with the new OG champ the Americans would have been most anxious to secure victory, yet couldn't.


reasonable assumption, but it's difficult to keep up full motivation for a gp meet if your whole season ( & as it turned out, your whole career ) has gone down the toilet

Also worth remembering that no less an authority than Don Quarrie said that Wells 200m in the 81 Golden Sprints was the greatest half-lap he had ever seen, which considering his own achievements was quite a gracious comment.


do you have details of that race ? - wells had a 20.21 lifetime pb & quarrie a 20.06 one ( low-altitude ), so that must have been a good race if quarrie said that
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:11 am

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Postby eldrick » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:24 am

some limited time-rankings for '80 & '81:

http://www.apulanta.fi/matti/yu/yl/1980_Men.html#100m

YearList 1980: 100m (Men)
No. Result Name Country Venue Date
1 10.02 James Sanford USA Westwood 1980-05-11
2 10.07 Stanley Floyd USA Austin 1980-05-24


YearList 1980: 200m (Men)
No. Result Name Country Venue Date
1 19.96 Pietro Mennea ITA Barletta 1980-08-17
2 20.08 LaMonte King USA Walnut 1980-06-15
3 20.21 Allan Wells GBR Moskva 1980-07-28
4 20.26 James Sanford USA Westwood 1980-05-03
Steve Williams USA Bruxelles 1980-08-22
6 20.29 Donald Quarrie JAM Moskva 1980-07-28
7 20.30 Silvio Leonard CUB Moskva 1980-07-28
8 20.34 James Mallard USA Tuscaloosa 1980-04-05
9 20.35 Efrem Coley USA Austin 1980-05-24
10 20.36 James Butler USA Eugene 1980-06-25
11 20.37 Millard Hampton USA Walnut 1980-06-15
12 20.39 Bernhard Hoff GDR Cottbus 1980-07-18

( a very poor year for US 200 running - little argument that mennea was a deserving winner - streets ahead on form ( & he had some other times close to 20 flat ) )


http://www.apulanta.fi/matti/yu/yl/1981_Men.html#100m


YearList 1981: 100m (Men)
No. Result Name Country Venue Date
1 10.00 Carl Lewis USA Dallas 1981-05-16
2 10.04 Mel Lattany USA Athens 1981-04-11
3 10.05 James Sanford USA Westwood 1981-05-10



YearList 1981: 200m (Men)
No. Result Name Country Venue Date
1 20.20 James Sanford USA Westwood 1981-05-10
2 20.21 Mel Lattany USA Roma 1981-09-06
3 20.26 Allan Wells GBR Bruxelles 1981-08-28
4 20.33 Frank Emmelmann GDR Zagreb 1981-08-16
5 20.34 Dwayne Evans USA Westwood 1981-05-10
6 20.36 LaMonte King USA Stanford 1981-05-23
Jeff Phillips USA Sacramento 1981-06-21
8 20.38 Eric Brown USA Stanford 1981-05-23

( another shitty year for US 200 running )

looks like '80 & '81 shoud be scrubbed from the history of US 200 running - those years are embarassing
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Postby EPelle » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:24 am

Wells also ran 20,26 open for 3,3 on the 1981 season list - behind the list-leading 20,20 Sanford put up at Pepsi (Westwood) and the 20,21 Lattany recorded in Rome.

Wells 20,26 was almost at the limit (+1,9m/s).
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Postby eldrick » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:33 am

perhaps i was being a bit ungenerous to the US & the 200 in '81:

it was a shitty year for the whole event

no one even breaking 20.2 legit - perhaps the whole event for that year shouda been expunged from history !

p.s. that is a very useful url : just change the year in it to different ones
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Re: 80 OG 100m

Postby paulthefan » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:44 pm

eldrick wrote:a guy i never even heard of runs 10.13 ( ? legal time ), only 0.02s slower than well's lifetime best, set at same meet]

proof positive that he actually never existed.. or that we should expunge him from the historical record
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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:13 pm

paulthefan wrote:
Brutal wrote:Point was that Borzov wasn't invincible. Yes Robert Taylor beat him with stick in hand, yes he didn't face the top two Americans and yes Larry Black had that tight lane 1. Just facts!



And a point that you have yet to make convincing... if I am the best and my competitors dont show up should I be viewed as any less than best... Im a big fan of Larry Black and a big critic of the lane 1 curse in the 200 but to suggest that Borzov was anything less than a monster in the 200 is making you sound weird.... almost as weird as your firm conviction that Randy Moss was a 9.7 100y man as a 14 year old.

from now on .. please Just the facts.


I'm have no "convictions" that Moss was that fast as a freshman. I'm just saying I knew guys running 9.9 at 16. Who weren't nearly as fast as what I think Moss is.

Don't pretend running in lane 1 is not a big disadvantage. Sure it is!
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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:22 pm

gh wrote:
Brutal wrote:
gh wrote:
Brutal wrote:Did Robert Taylor not beat Borzov on the anchor of a 4x1? Sure he did! They started out even!


I'll assume you mean Hart, not Taylor, but the answer remains a clear no. Borzov was about 0.3 down when he got the stick, according to the T&FN story, and that jibes with my memory (I was there--were you?). Athletics Arena, a now-defunct British publication, puts the gap at 4m.


Nope wrong race. It was Texas Southern's Robert Taylor who smoked him. Hart handed off to him. There is a picture of this in one of the Track&Field News issues. Not sure which one. It shows Hart screaming at Taylor.I'm guessing ..."GO!"

Go ahead check it out.

I saw it on TV. Trust me I know who Robert Taylor was.


I can't find any evidence of any such race. Taylor didn't run against Borzov in the US-USSR of either '71 or '73 (which would have nothing to do with the Olympics anyway), nor did he anchor at either of the pre-Oly meets in Munich where the U.S. ran. May have happened, but I can't find it.


I have the picture in a scrap book. Yep right out of the pages of Track&Field News. You must not be looking very hard. I do get tired of you acting like I'm lying. By the way I found another windy 9.2 and a windy 9.1 for Branch.

Taylor is in lane one with Borzov right beside him in lane two. We also see Hart and the soviet guy who handed off to Borzov in the picture. I remember thinking as I was it happening, that any minute Borzov would blow by Taylor. Never happened!

Do we need a little wager here that that photo is indeed in the pages of T&FN?

I guess it's time to break out the boxes and find it myself.
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Re: 80 OG 100m

Postby Vern » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:57 pm

eldrick wrote:a guy i never even heard of runs 10.13 ( ? legal time ), only 0.02s slower than well's lifetime best, set at same meet

so wells wasn't alone in setting a lifetime pb there

if an "unknown" coud set a pb within 0.02s of wells


8th in 100 final at Montreal. Not unknown, with or without qoute marks.
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:15 pm

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Re: 80 OG 100m

Postby eldrick » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:27 pm

Vern wrote:
eldrick wrote:a guy i never even heard of runs 10.13 ( ? legal time ), only 0.02s slower than well's lifetime best, set at same meet

so wells wasn't alone in setting a lifetime pb there

if an "unknown" coud set a pb within 0.02s of wells


8th in 100 final at Montreal. Not unknown, with or without qoute marks.


thanks

of note, i found out that both wells' 10.11 & petrov's 10.13 had the same +1.4 wind & were run in consecutive heats

also in '78 ec:

Men's 100m. Final. European Athletics Championships 1978

1. Pietro MENNEA ITA 10.27
2. Eugen RAY GDR 10.36
3. Vladimir IGNATIENKO URS 10.37
4. Petar PETROV BUL 10.41
5. Leszek DUNECKI POL 10.43
6. Allan WELLS GBR 10.45

i'm sure he was a nice chap & kind to old ladies & small dogs, but he's hardly a household name in his own bathroom !
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Postby paulthefan » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:30 pm

Brutal wrote:
I'm have no "convictions" that Moss was that fast as a freshman. I'm just saying I knew guys running 9.9 at 16. Who weren't nearly as fast as what I think Moss is.

Don't pretend running in lane 1 is not a big disadvantage. Sure it is!



do a search on paulthefan and lane 1 in the 200 and youll find that I have been screaming bloody murder about the injustice of it all... at least today a top seed doesnt get stuck carring that ball and chain.. I do think that Taylor got a raw deal in lane 1.. I dont however think that he could have beaten borzov if he had lane 3 though either... but its a fair disagreement... so even under your assumption Borzov becomes a gold and silver and bronze medalist in the sprints in 72... with all the random variables to account for there are not a handful of men in all history that fare much better.



We all know a few guys that ran sub 10 as 16 year olds.. some of them white... most that I saw were NEVER the tall and lanky type... I have NEVER seen a tall and lanky 14 year old run 9.6 ... so please Just the facts!... your hyperbole and ideology are shading your view of reality...

again for the record.. blacks have an advantage in the sprints... and that leads to a shaping of everyones world view that ONLY blacks can succeed at the sprints... a marginal genetic difference leads to outstanding actual differences... as everyone exagerates the difference.... you are doing your part with your Brutal assessment of Moss the 14 year old wonder... so far it is par for the course!
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:33 pm

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Postby gh » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:41 pm

Nobody under the age of about 50 has any idea who Dick Bank was. In his day he was regarded as perhaps the preeminent expert on the sport on these shores. Encyclopedic memory, quick analyst. Unfortunately he had a personality which matches the kind of posts that you and Brutal like to make and he wore out his welcome on TV. (was surprising he ever got re-hired after being fired in the middle of Tokyo for grabbing the mike away from whomever the lead announcer was... Bill Fleming?).

From my perspective he was a bit over the top on his analysis of Borzov, but I agree that Borzov was unbeatable in his era, and only those who see through jingoistic glasses think Hart had the remotest of chances against him in Munich.
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Postby gh » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:49 pm

Brutal wrote: I have the picture in a scrap book. Yep right out of the pages of Track&Field News. You must not be looking very hard. I do get tired of you acting like I'm lying. Taylor is in lane one with Borzov right beside him in lane two. We also see Hart and the soviet guy who handed off to Borzov in the picture. I remember thinking as I was it happening, that any minute Borzov would blow by Taylor. Never happened!


Please read what I wrote a little more carefully. Unlike you, I have no need to be right. I simply said I couldn't find any record of any such race (I didn't say anything about any photo; I didn't look). And I was veryup front about saying "I may be wrong"; words I don't expect we'll ever hear from you.

I don't act like you're lying; I act in reaction to your bombastic pontifications. Your style (or lack thereof).
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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:19 pm

paulthefan wrote:
Brutal wrote:
I'm have no "convictions" that Moss was that fast as a freshman. I'm just saying I knew guys running 9.9 at 16. Who weren't nearly as fast as what I think Moss is.

Don't pretend running in lane 1 is not a big disadvantage. Sure it is!



do a search on paulthefan and lane 1 in the 200 and youll find that I have been screaming bloody murder about the injustice of it all... at least today a top seed doesnt get stuck carring that ball and chain.. I do think that Taylor got a raw deal in lane 1.. I dont however think that he could have beaten borzov if he had lane 3 though either... but its a fair disagreement... so even under your assumption Borzov becomes a gold and silver and bronze medalist in the sprints in 72... with all the random variables to account for there are not a handful of men in all history that fare much better.



We all know a few guys that ran sub 10 as 16 year olds.. some of them white... most that I saw were NEVER the tall and lanky type... I have NEVER seen a tall and lanky 14 year old run 9.6 ... so please Just the facts!... your hyperbole and ideology are shading your view of reality...

again for the record.. blacks have an advantage in the sprints... and that leads to a shaping of everyones world view that ONLY blacks can succeed at the sprints... a marginal genetic difference leads to outstanding actual differences... as everyone exagerates the difference.... you are doing your part with your Brutal assessment of Moss the 14 year old wonder... so far it is par for the course!


How about Usian Bolt?

I'm reading how Harvey Glance was running 9.7 at 16. Not not saying Moss was a Glance. I'm just saying he was probably very fast, very young.
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:19 pm

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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:26 pm

gh wrote:
Brutal wrote: I have the picture in a scrap book. Yep right out of the pages of Track&Field News. You must not be looking very hard. I do get tired of you acting like I'm lying. Taylor is in lane one with Borzov right beside him in lane two. We also see Hart and the soviet guy who handed off to Borzov in the picture. I remember thinking as I was it happening, that any minute Borzov would blow by Taylor. Never happened!


Please read what I wrote a little more carefully. Unlike you, I have no need to be right. I simply said I couldn't find any record of any such race (I didn't say anything about any photo; I didn't look). And I was veryup front about saying "I may be wrong"; words I don't expect we'll ever hear from you.

I don't act like you're lying; I act in reaction to your bombastic pontifications. Your style (or lack thereof).


Ok here's the the caption above the photo....

At the final exchange in the US-USSR match 400 meter relay, things are pretty even but Robert Taylor turned back the finishing drive of Soveit Valery Borzov to give the US a 39.1 victory, one -tenth up on the host team. Boris Izmyestyev and Eddie Hart ran the third legs.

Roger Monnet

There it is!

If you are going to hint at me being wrong, at least put some serious effort into proving it. Try looking for the picture I'm talking about. Obviously it happened between 70-72 after August.
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:35 pm

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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:41 pm

Rob wrote:I think Brutal is right. I'll try to give my view of the event and circumstances:

It was a USA v USSR match in Leningrad, I think 1970.

Borzov had easily won the 100m earlier in the match (against Ben Vaughan and Ivory Crockett), but injured himself in the 4x100m and had to switch-off. This was loudly hailed by the American TV reporter at the time (Dick Bank), who didn't know about the injury and claimed Borzov was overrated. He subsequently retracted his criticism when he watched Borzov take the European 100 / 200 double in Helsinki. Some American reporters went even further with their acknowledgement of his status. The following is a verbatim quote from T&FN's John Hendershott:

"Borzov was the sprinter's sprinter - an athlete of consumate knowledge and skill, so well-trained as to be almost robot-like in his ability to perform at the highest level of physical and mental superiority, time after time, and championship after championship."

While we're on quotes, here's a couple from his teammates (and remember how important psychology is in the 100m):

Alexander Kornelyuk: "On the track, we are competitors. But only in theory. I know that I have no chance against him." (And this was from a guy who came 4th in an Olympic 100m final).

Alexander Aksinin: "Will power is his strongest point. It's uncanny. When you line up alongside him, you just know - you feel it in your bones - that he will win. You have no chance. Magnetism is just oozing out of him." (He also came 4th in an Olympic 100m final).


Of course I'm right, I'm looking at the picture right now and saw it happen on TV. I don't make this stuff up.

Now to send Gerry scurrying around to see if Borzov was actually in San Diego sometime between 69-71. I set right behind him at the San Diego Indoor Games. I remember how jovial he was until close to race time then it was like a switch had been turned on. Definately had a game face. Not as big as I expected.
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:44 pm

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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:52 pm

Rob wrote:And the year of the US v USSR match??


I cut the photo out of the magazine. It's in a scrap book. The mag I got it out of is somewhere in a box in my garage behind a ton of stuff. I have all my pre 2000 mags out there. Not all that thrilled with trying to track it down.

I have no reason to make stuff up knowing how sharp everyone is here and how easily any lies would be found out. Yes there is a picture and yes it happened just as I'm saying it did.
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:59 pm

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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:15 pm

Rob wrote:I never disputed your original assertion. The only reason I didn't confirm your claim straightaway was that I wasn't sure if it was 1970 or 1971, which therefore might have looked a bit inaccurate on my behalf. I think the Leningrad match was 1970. Which means the match in Berkeley was 1971? (He won the 100m there as well). I'm not 100% sure of the order of the US v USSR matches around the turn of that decade.


I know man, it just gets tiresome having somebody going around trying to prove me wrong all the time like Gerry. Hell most the stuff I come up with came right off the pages of T&FN. Here I am looking at a picture right out of the magazine and he's telling me he can't find it.....huh?????? I would appreciate a little more effort before..."I can't find it." He needs to understand I don't make stuff up.

I started reading T&FN in 66. That's a lot of info.
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:15 pm

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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:27 pm

Rob wrote:Just found confirmation (in case anyone's interested).

USSR v USA, Leningrad was 1970 (Borzov won the 100m against Vaughan & Crockett, with Carlos out through injury).

USA v USSR, Berkeley was 1971 (Included guests, and Borzov won the 100m by over a metre from Jim Green, Lennox Miller, Don Quarrie & Del Meriwether).


Cool!
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Postby gh » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:28 pm

As I said, I could be wrong. And I was. Of course, if I had known you were talking about ancient history, 2 years pre-Munich before Borzov was the No. 1 sprinter in the world it might have made more sense. The fact remains that Hart couldnt' have touched Borzov in '72.
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Postby marknhj » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:30 pm

Rob & Brutal - do you guys have any links that show Borzov running? I was in awe of him at the time and haven't seen him run for several decades. Plus he married that gymnast (name presently escapes me) who I had a huge crush on when I was about 12-13yo!
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Postby gh » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:31 pm

Rob wrote:While we're on the subject (since you chose to make such a remark) what happened to your younger generation? When exactly did the PC liberals take a strangle hold?


Only liberals are polite?
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Postby gh » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:32 pm

marknhj wrote:Rob & Brutal - do you guys have any links that show Borzov running? I was in awe of him at the time and haven't seen him run for several decades. Plus he married that gymnast (name presently escapes me) who I had a huge crush on when I was about 12-13yo!


Lyudmila Turisheva (sp).
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Postby Brutal » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:39 pm

gh wrote:As I said, I could be wrong. And I was. Of course, if I had known you were talking about ancient history, 2 years pre-Munich before Borzov was the No. 1 sprinter in the world it might have made more sense. The fact remains that Hart couldnt' have touched Borzov in '72.


Borzov was first world ranked in 1969. So it's not like he was somebody just starting out. Do I need to type a longggggggggggg list of races won by lesser sprinters? You don't know what Hart would have done vs Borzov with the chips on the table. Why act like you do?

Gerry let's get something straight right now. This makes twice you were shown that yes I was right about something you questioned. I'm also confident that yes Branch did run a slew of 9.2's while at Colorado. I can prove 3 and a 9.1, yep all but one were windy. Gerry I don't just throw stuff out there. I know what I'm talking about. Please stop with this.."I'll show him". You can't win.......trust me!

I go back to the days of Lon Myers, who held American records in everything from the 50 yard dash to the mile. Yep I'm that deep into this stuff....ok?
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Postby gh » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:49 pm

You're deep in it alright.
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