Bacheler v Shorter


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Bacheler v Shorter

Postby no one » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:54 pm

What was their win loss against each other on the track? Not a trivia - I don't know.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:28 pm

How about ties ?
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby no one » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:10 pm

in my day tie goes to the runner. 8-) but you have a good point .. they would factor out - in my way of thinking. It seems now that Jack had the better kick, so if he was 'there' ...
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby mcgato » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:17 pm

Just poking around, I could only find a few results with both of them.
Bakersfield, 20May1972, 5000m
13:40.4 Jack Bacheler 6th place
13:42.4 Frank Shorter 7th place
Seattle, 16Jun1972, 10000m
28:12.0 Frank Shorter, 2nd place
28:13.4 Jack Bacheler, 3rd place
Eugene, OT, 2July1972, 10000m
28:35.6 Frank Shorter, 1st place
29:09.8 Jack Bacheler, DQ (4th across line)
Eugene, OT, 9Jul1972, Marathon
2:15:58 Frank Shorter, 1st place tie with Kenny Moore
2:20:30 Jack Bacheler, 3rd place tie with Jeff Galloway

I think kritter's quip about ties is about the 72 marathon. But Shorter did not tie Bacheler. Looks like it is 3-1, Shorter.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby gh » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:04 am

there was a big hoo-ha after a Bacheler/Shorter race in which they held hands across the line, going for a tie, but the officials broke it.

At the time, noted coach Fred Wilt wrote a scathing I Think in T&FN lambasting the thought of tieing as pretty much a mortal sin; spurred a couple of months worth of back and forth in the letters section. (back when people actually wrote letters to the editor)
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby dj » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:30 am

Shorter and Bacheler tied at the 1970 AAU 6M. I think they'd tied at Drake earlier in the year--probably in the 3M, but that's off the top of my head.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby no one » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:41 am

I remember reading the fred wilt piece. He was pretty steamed. Tying was kind of a frequent thing, at least in the college ranks. I don't know if the wilt offering made any kind of impact. He stated tying was cheating. I'm guessing many runners did not know who he was - only the more hard core.

But back to Baach v Short .. I've seen a 3 mile race that went to the last lap between Shorter, Bach and G Bjork. Bach won kicking past GB - easily winning (10-15 yds), and Shorter caught GB with 50-60 yds from finish. Not sure where that was at - it looked to me that Rex Maddaford (or someone in a green nms jersey) was hanging on til 2 or so laps to go.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby lovetorun » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:42 pm

no one wrote:I remember reading the fred wilt piece. He was pretty steamed. Tying was kind of a frequent thing, at least in the college ranks. I don't know if the wilt offering made any kind of impact. He stated tying was cheating. I'm guessing many runners did not know who he was - only the more hard core.

But back to Baach v Short .. I've seen a 3 mile race that went to the last lap between Shorter, Bach and G Bjork. Bach won kicking past GB - easily winning (10-15 yds), and Shorter caught GB with 50-60 yds from finish. Not sure where that was at - it looked to me that Rex Maddaford (or someone in a green nms jersey) was hanging on til 2 or so laps to go.


Who is Rex Maddaford...never heard of him...
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby dj » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:51 pm

no one wrote:But back to Baach v Short .. I've seen a 3 mile race that went to the last lap between Shorter, Bach and G Bjork. Bach won kicking past GB - easily winning (10-15 yds), and Shorter caught GB with 50-60 yds from finish. Not sure where that was at - it looked to me that Rex Maddaford (or someone in a green nms jersey) was hanging on til 2 or so laps to go.


Don't know where this race was; it wasn't Drake nor was it the AAU.

The Drake race where Shorter and Bacheler tied for the win was the 6M in 1970 (28:24.0). Bacheler won the Drake 5k/3M twice, in 1969 and 1970.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby dj » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:01 pm

Rex Maddaford was a New Zealander at Eastern New Mexico (1970-73), an NAIA school. Finalist in both the 5 and 10 in '68 OG.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby no one » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:45 pm

I'll see if I can locate on web
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby no one » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:59 pm

this has the race in it - along with numerous other events - pretty good quality. Says it has both AAU INTERNATIONAL TRACK AND FIELD CHAMPIONS and 2ND ANNUAL KENNEDY GAMES AT EDWARDS TRACK STADIUM, UNIV. OF CALIFORNIA AT BERKELEY.

http://www.historicfilms.com/tapes/24846

starts @ 3:10 with some intermittent random other video

I'm guessin it was the Kennedy games
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby no one » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:16 pm

Rex Maddaford:

Personal Bests: 5000 – 13:45.8 (1969); 10000 – 28:17.8 (1968), 6-mile at 27:22, 2 Mile 8:28.6 (1970), 1 mile 4:01.

I'm not totally sure that was him in the race I was referencing - but jersey/singlet was a green one -
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby runforlife » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:15 pm

dj wrote:The Drake race where Shorter and Bacheler tied for the win was the 6M in 1970 (28:24.0).

They tied in the 1972 Drake Relays also. Believe I have a picture of that somewhere.
Don't forget that in 1974 Hammond High Jr. Rudy Chapa and Sr. Cary Pinkowski tied in everyone of their CC races including for the state title. The IHSAA didn't like that and changed the rule to disqualify others who did that. Personally I have no problem with it and find it kinda cool.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby dj » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:15 am

runforlife wrote:
dj wrote:The Drake race where Shorter and Bacheler tied for the win was the 6M in 1970 (28:24.0).

They tied in the 1972 Drake Relays also. Believe I have a picture of that somewhere.
Don't forget that in 1974 Hammond High Jr. Rudy Chapa and Sr. Cary Pinkowski tied in everyone of their CC races including for the state title. The IHSAA didn't like that and changed the rule to disqualify others who did that. Personally I have no problem with it and find it kinda cool.


From the New York Times, re the 1972 Drake Relays: "In the six-mile run, Frank Shorter and Jack Bacheler, both of the Florida Track Club, crossed the finish line together after joining hands 15 yards from the finish. Shorter was 10 yards ahead but held up and waited for Bacheler.

"Officials refused to rule a tie, however, giving Shorter the victory in 27:37."
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:41 am

no one wrote:Rex Maddaford:

Personal Bests: 5000 – 13:45.8 (1969); 10000 – 28:17.8 (1968), 6-mile at 27:22, 2 Mile 8:28.6 (1970), 1 mile 4:01.

I'm not totally sure that was him in the race I was referencing - but jersey/singlet was a green one -


That's definitely Maddaford in the video.

Is there supposed to be sound on the video? I can't figure out if it's me or the video which is silent. Thx.
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Re: Bacheler v Shorter

Postby no one » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:04 pm

no sound on mine either
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