New Zealand News and Results


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New Zealand News and Results

Postby derby_county » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:34 pm

If the Aussies can have their own thread, so can us Kiwis! :D

2 NZ Junior records at the weekend. http://athletics.org.nz/News/ArtMID/463 ... -Qualifier
Siositina Hakeai broke Beatrice Faumuina's discus record with 59.65 (also a COmmonwealth Games B qualifier)* and Tori Peters broke the javelin (new spec) record with 52.83.**

Lucy van Dalen's 2000m at the New Balance meet would also be a record but needs to be discussed as there isn't a record at the moment (AFAIK Kim Smith never ran one).

Some good indoor times for Nick Willis 3:57.41, Julian Oakley (b. 1993, Prov) 4:00.71 and Olivia Burne (Stony Brook) 4:38.28 and Laura Nagel (Prov) 9:00.71 .

The long-awaited shot put clash between Jacko Gill and Tom Walsh (and Jacko's first senior meet since November 2012) will take place at either the NZ Nationals (March 29) or possibly Feb 22)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... -nationals
Jacko's coaches etc now include Kirsten Hellier, Les MIlls and Roy Williams: http://athletics.org.nz/News/ArtMID/463 ... Team-Jacko

* NZ have what appear to be by far the harshest standards of any Commonwealth country. The most notable example is the Men's A Hammer standard at 4.50m further than anyone in the Commonwealth threw last year! THis is by no means unusual, in fact it is getting worse.

**NZ takes the age on the day of the competition so neither athlete would be regarded as Juniors under IAAF rules.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Master Po » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:23 pm

I find the Australian thread a great way to keep up with those results & developments, so I appreciate this thread, derby_county.

One question -- you stated:

"NZ have what appear to be by far the harshest standards of any Commonwealth country."

I know the foolishness in asking a "why?" question about the policies of pretty much any athletics federation, but -- being a fool -- I'll ask anyway: Why does NZ have such harsh standards? Any ideas on this?
:)
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby derby_county » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:52 pm

Master Po wrote:Why does NZ have such harsh standards? Any ideas on this?
:)


IMHO there are 2 reasons:
1.Since the early 1990s the response by Athletics NZ to apparent "failures" by athletes to perform at major meets has been to keep raising the standard. Of course as the standards get raised so does the expectation so the probability of athletes failing stays the same!
2. Athletics NZ for major meets funding comes through High Performance Sport NZ which bases funding for all sports on performances at the previous such meet. It's a vicious circle: the lower the perceived success > the lower the funding > the smaller the possible team next time > the higher the standard to keep the team size down.

I am not the only one who feels that standards are being raised so high that instead of encouraging promising athletes they are being pushed away from the sport (which has undergone a dramatic decline in participation anyway since the 1990s):
http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/a ... -standards
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:02 pm

We have threads focused on Aussies, (now) NZ, Poland, Germany (at least sort of) [there are a number of Brits, but they are broader and more common, so usually not a specific thread], and a few others [Billy Vol keeps us informed of the Tennessee performance, and I, Pego and others at least highlight Wisconsin-Madison]. The focused expertise of posters almost always servers to inform us; thanks. You will be able to see how many eyes track the treads.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby AS » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:15 pm

It's great to see an NZ thread!

I can't help but wonder whether the NZ (and, at times, Aussie) practice of 'raising the qualification bar' is actually a response to our clear Southern Hemisphere disadvantage?

The causal chain goes something like this:
- Down Under athlete competes and peaks during southern summer and reaches IAAF/CWG/OG qualifier and is thus selected
- Due to known challenge of multiple peaks, athlete struggles to replicate performance at international champs 4-6 months later, annoying selectors
- Selectors make false association between qualifying marks and performance and thus raise bar
- In subsequent years, some (better) athletes still qualify, but have had to peak (rather than train through confident that they could hit old marks without tapering) during southern summer
- Due to known challenge of multiple peaks, athlete struggles to replicate performance at international champs 4-6 months later, annoying selectors
- Selectors make false association between qualifying marks and performance and thus raise bar...
And on it goes...

Throw in a growing fixation on producing 'elite performers', rather than treating IAAF etc as worthy arbiters of quality, and this becomes a recipe for very, very small teams and disheartening of athletes who see competitors from other countries getting a start while they stay home.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Athleticsimaging » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:44 am

Ridiculous standards are great for administrators because it becomes athlete's failure to achieve rather than their incompetence at sourcing funds to allow all qualifiers to travel and compete.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Powell » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:54 am

Master Po wrote:being a fool -- I'll ask anyway: Why does NZ have such harsh standards? Any ideas on this?
:)


Because it's more expensive to travel to almost anywhere from New Zealand than it is from any other country? ;)
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby derby_county » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:04 pm

AS wrote:It's great to see an NZ thread!

I can't help but wonder whether the NZ (and, at times, Aussie) practice of 'raising the qualification bar' is actually a response to our clear Southern Hemisphere disadvantage?


This is certainly part of the problem. Most younger athletes spend all the southern summer chasing qualifiers, usually must compete at the NZ Nationals in March and if they still haven't qualified then go to the Australian Nationals and try there. A few might get to chase times in middle/long distance at Palo Alto, Mt Sac or Payton Jordan which is probably their last chance to qualify and still be able to peak again. :roll:
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby derby_county » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:32 pm

Nick Willis 3rd in PR 3:53.02 at Millrose. Went for a gap which closed otherwise would have been at least second.
Lucy van Dalen 5th in PR 8:53.95 at Millrose.
Rebekah Green (Gators Frosh) PR 4:38.03 at Husky.
Portia Bing WL Hep 5695.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby AS » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:46 pm

The coolest looking of the NZ meets (is it running on a grass track again this year?) is on the weekend: http://internationaltrackmeet.co.nz/ath ... -of-fame-2

Valerie Adams is on the startlist, as is Tom Walsh (he's doing something called a Throws Quadrathlon - SP, DT, HT & 50m sprint!), but no Jacko Gill
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby aaronk » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:01 am

I sent a tweet yesterday to Valerie Adams telling her of this thread.
She "favorited" the tweet!
So don't be surprised if she comes on here with a comment!!
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby norunner » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:10 am

aaronk wrote:I sent a tweet yesterday to Valerie Adams telling her of this thread.
She "favorited" the tweet!
So don't be surprised if she comes on here with a comment!!
Oh my god, really? Maybe she'll bring cookies and we'll have a jolly good time, let's all praise Twitter.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby aaronk » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:23 am

norunner wrote:
aaronk wrote:I sent a tweet yesterday to Valerie Adams telling her of this thread.
She "favorited" the tweet!
So don't be surprised if she comes on here with a comment!!
Oh my god, really? Maybe she'll bring cookies and we'll have a jolly good time, let's all praise Twitter.


Wow!
Here I go and try to do something positive--I mean, why wouldn't a thread having to do specifically with NZ "athletics" be thrilled to have the best "Kiwi" athlete post a comment??--and you diss the intent AND the medium used!!

If this were MY thread, having Valerie come on it with a comment would be better than having the best cookies the best bakers could produce!!

Remind me to NOT tweet NZ's best next time!!
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby norunner » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:30 am

aaronk wrote:
norunner wrote:
aaronk wrote:I sent a tweet yesterday to Valerie Adams telling her of this thread.
She "favorited" the tweet!
So don't be surprised if she comes on here with a comment!!
Oh my god, really? Maybe she'll bring cookies and we'll have a jolly good time, let's all praise Twitter.


Wow!
Here I go and try to do something positive--I mean, why wouldn't a thread having to do specifically with NZ "athletics" be thrilled to have the best "Kiwi" athlete post a comment??--and you diss the intent AND the medium used!!

If this were MY thread, having Valerie come on it with a comment would be better than having the best cookies the best bakers could produce!!

Remind me to NOT tweet NZ's best next time!!
The problem isn't what you do on Twitter, it's the incessant boasting abut it. How many of your postings contain "i tweeted this or that"?
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby AS » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:11 pm

The Christchurch results:

http://www.athletics.org.nz/Events/Live ... e/ITM-2014

Adams 20.19m

Tom Walsh 19.89m
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Sasuke » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:47 am

It's going to be an interesting challenge between Adams and Schwanitz in Sopot.
I see Val as a favorite but Schwanitz has been in really good shape this winter and has a personal best of 20.40 from last year's WC.

Good performance for Adams, after two surgeries. Hoping to see her smashing her pr this summer.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby norunner » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:04 am

Has Adams confirmed her start in Sopot?
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Sasuke » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:49 am

norunner wrote:Has Adams confirmed her start in Sopot?


Sure, she will be there going for gold.

Four of her six throws were over the 20m mark with a best of 20.19m. She had three throws over the previous best in the world this year, 20.05m, and in doing so passed her own test which means she'll board a plane tomorrow and head to the world indoor championship in Poland.

"We didn't have any expectations today but we wanted to see where we were at leading into world indoors so I can say I'm now going to that," Adams said.

"It's important for me to go there and give it all I've got to be as close to 100 per cent as possible. I now feel like, after today, I can go there and have a good competition and compete for my nation."
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby AS » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:07 pm

National record set in Perth:

m400mH Michael Cochrane NZL 49.72 NR, Felix Sanchez 5th in 52.75
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby JumboElliott » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:54 pm

Was that record Nic O'Brien's?
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby AS » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:32 pm

JumboElliott wrote:Was that record Nic O'Brien's?


Yes, http://www.3news.co.nz/Michael-Cochrane ... fault.aspx
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby derby_county » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:01 pm

Surprise Bronze for Tom Walsh at World Indoor Champs. :D

21.26 gives him a decent margin over Jacko Gill now.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby derby_county » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:04 pm

from IAAF meet in Melbourne, March 22

Tom Walsh goes to 21.16 outdoors (20.48m, 20.24m, 20.54m, 21.16m, F, 20.70m), #90= all-time, #5 all-time in Commonwealth, also threw further than Val Adams 19.68 (they probably had a side bet on that) :)

Rosa Flanagan (b. 2.28.96) breaks NZJR in steeplechase with 9:56.97 (she can't be more than 5'5" tall!)

Mike Cochrane beat the Aussies again (49.74) but while they get their Comm Games B standard (50.15) he just misses the NZ B (49.70) again
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby gktrack » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:04 pm

Are Walsh and Gill both throwing Saturday (March 29) in New Zealand as listed here?
http://athletics.org.nz/Events/Live-Results-Page/NZTF2014
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby nztrackfan » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:09 pm

Nothing to suggest that both Walsh and Gill won't be competing. The event is due to start in about 20 minutes. Meanwhile Valerie has won (yes really!) the Women's shot in 20.46m.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby gktrack » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:15 pm

Thanks.. keep us posted in case results don't update...
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby nztrackfan » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:40 pm

Via twitter Walsh 20.59m after 3 rounds and Gill (also) a Comm Games qualifier of 19.93m.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby gktrack » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:59 pm

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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Dave » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:00 pm


I am really surprised this event passed with so little discussion. Would you guess Gill was in fact injured? 19.93 seems a good deal less than expected. If he is not injured, he could perhaps benefit from a lot more frequent competition than he seems to get.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby AS » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:23 pm

It's disappointing neither Gill nor Walsh is heading over to the Aussie champs this weekend in Melbourne.

Jacko definitely needs some comps.

Hopefully he's learned something from Walsh's more frequent appearances...
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Sasuke » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:48 pm

I don't know if he is injured or not, but 19.93, which is less than what he threw at the beginning of 2011 (3 years ago!!) given how much weights and training he did since then, makes you wonder something wrong is going on. In my opinion he wouldn't have competed, but he had to, otherwise he would have been out of Commonwealth champs. I heard Jacko has gone 21+ in training in the past, this result is very negative but... last year he opened with a very weak 20.5 with the 6kg but ended up with 23.... I am sure he will be ready to unleash his potential for the commonwealth championships.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby derby_county » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:07 pm

19.93 is consistent with what Jacko has thrown in his club competitions recently...disappointing that he failed to crack 20 but no real surprise that he was nowhere near his PB.

I'm still of the opinion that he needs to compete more, but it should be pointed out that Tom Walsh's best a year ago was only 19.81. All they hype has raised expectations to an unrealistic level, maybe now the pressure is off things will be a bit easier and the results will improve accordingly.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby mump boy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:19 am

I think having superior competition and being beaten is the best thing for him, a bit of humility can't be a bad thing

He took himself out of consideration for OG because he wasn't selected in the first round and selectors wanted to give Tom Walsh the chance to qualify as well, that wasn't good enough for our boy wonder but look how the table have turned now
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Sasuke » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:37 am

derby_county wrote:19.93 is consistent with what Jacko has thrown in his club competitions recently...disappointing that he failed to crack 20 but no real surprise that he was nowhere near his PB.

I'm still of the opinion that he needs to compete more, but it should be pointed out that Tom Walsh's best a year ago was only 19.81. All they hype has raised expectations to an unrealistic level, maybe now the pressure is off things will be a bit easier and the results will improve accordingly.


But what's going wrong with him? How can he bench so many kg and do amazing things in training and then not crack 20, let alone 21?

On the competition, I agree with you. He should compete more often, not twice or three times a year.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:32 am

Sasuke wrote:But what's going wrong with him? How can he bench so many kg and do amazing things in training and then not crack 20, let alone 21?

On the competition, I agree with you. He should compete more often, not twice or three times a year.


The guy has always struck me as a bit of a flake, and he has consistently made, and been allowed to make, poor choices. Maybe he will grow out of it, and not being the prima donna any more might be the best thing for him if he can handle the 'demotion'.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Jamiesonrc » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:36 pm

We seem to be forgetting that Jacko was born 20 December 1994. He is over six months short of his 20th birthday - in an event when senior success can come anywhere between David Storl in his early 20's and probably somewhere in your 30's. Time is undoubtedly on his side......... :D
He may not have moved his senior PB but his Junior WR is only 7 months ago.

Jacko has probably done himself many favours. He has a Commonwealth Games qualifier and didn't really need to do too much more. If he is fit for Glasgow the opportunity is presumbably now there (same path Valerie Adams followed with her first up silver in Manchester 2002).

Surely athletics fans should be excited about the prospect of two talented athletes going head to head or competing at major competitions. The fans turned up in droves in Welllington on Saturday to watch Gill vs Walsh with Valerie as an incredible "curtain raiser" and it was incredibly cold on the day which may not have helped.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby mump boy » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:03 am

Did Jacko not throw the senior shot last year ? I can't find a result for him. His PB of 20.38 goes back to 2011 when he was 16 !!

There a number of 20m SP in the CW (7 last year) so even if he gets back to his best there is no guarantee of a medal in Glasgow
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Powell » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:59 am

Jamiesonrc wrote:We seem to be forgetting that Jacko was born 20 December 1994. He is over six months short of his 20th birthday - in an event when senior success can come anywhere between David Storl in his early 20's and probably somewhere in your 30's. Time is undoubtedly on his side......... :D


His age is one thing: of course 19.93 would normally be a great result for a 19-year old. But being that age and having a PB that's 2.5 years old is never a good sign. Age group phenoms who get stuck in a rut and fail to progress for a couple of seasons rarely go on to great things.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:15 am

Especially if they had already advanced to senior-level training in their early years so that they do not have that as a basis for the typical jump in performance when they transition from junior- to senior-level competition.
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Re: New Zealand News and Results

Postby Jamiesonrc » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:47 pm

From an article on the IAAF website-
**Including ancillary marks, Gill owns the 11 best throws in history with the 5kg Shot. He also broke records with the other weights, setting a World youth record of 22.31m with the 6kg Shot and 20.38m with the senior implement – a whopping 1.65m farther than the next-best youth athlete in history, Germany’s Karsten Stolz. His 20.38m also broke the senior New Zealand record and the world age-16 best.

Despite picking up injuries in 2012, he came within one centimetre of his PB with the 6kg Shot with 22.30m and went on to successfully defend his World junior title in Barcelona with a championship record of 22.20m**

So - its reasonably obvious that a reassessment in 2012 made the World Junior title defence the major target and combined with injuries (clearly underpar at the NZ2013 champs) the target shifted to breaking David Storl's World junior record which he adchieved in 2013. There are no guarantees that the transition to senior ranks will be successful, even for a youth "boy-wonder" (and throwing in injuries, coach changes and the normal issues with leaving home etc etc).
Ulrike Meyfarth certainly took a long time between World Records but she got back to the top nine/ten years later........
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