2014 HS Returners


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2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:00 pm

Got the HS Annual issue of T&FN today - one of my favorites - and source of some info I always like to peruse: who are the best HS returners for the next year? Some were on last year's pre-list; most were not. Who will continue to lead the nation? Here they be:

Boys

100
10.28 *Kendal Williams
10.31 *Mustaq’eem Williams
200
20.64 *Kendal Williams
*Mustaq’eem Williams
400
46.28 *Zyaire Clemes
46.33 **Ryan Clark
800
1:50.33 *Charles Jones (Ritter, St Louis)
1:50.51 *Joseph White (DePaul, Wayne, NJ)
MILE
4:02.67+ *Blake Haney
2 MILES
8:51.65+ *Blake Haney
8:54.10+ *Joe Hardy
110 HURDLES
13.38 *Tony Brown
*Marlon Humphrey
300/400 HURDLES
35.60/50.25 *Marlon Humphrey
36.71 **Vince Castillo
HIGH JUMP
7-3¼ *Randall Cunningham
7-2 *Natron Gipson
POLE VAULT
17-3 *Devin King
LONG JUMP
25-0 *Adoree Jackson
24-11¾ *Nate Moore
TRIPLE JUMP
51-6¼ *Keandre Bates
50-11¾ *Nate Moore
SHOT
63-11 *John Maurins (Mentor, Oh)
63-10½ *Jack Lembcke (Roosevelt, Sioux Falls)
DISCUS
200-4 *Gelen Robinson (Lake Central, St John, In)
199-11 *Amir Ali Patterson (Crespi, Encino, Ca)
HAMMER
235-11 *Daniel Haugh (St Pius X, Atlanta)
JAVELIN
214-7 *Curtis Thompson (Florence, Burlington, NJ)
214-6 *Chris Mirabelli (Holy Cross, Delran, NJ)
DECATHLON
7037 *Steele Wasik (St Edward, Lakewood, Oh)
6967 *Zach Bornstein’ (Oaks, Westlake Village, Ca)

Girls

100
11.33 *Ky Westbrook
11.39 *Ariana Washington
200
23.18 *Ariana Washington
23.37 *Ky Westbrook
23.40 ***Kaylin Whitney
400
52.11 ****Daesha Rogers
52.71 *Olivia Baker
800
1:59.51 *Mary Cain
2:03.32 *Raevyn Rogers
1500 METERS
4:04.62 *Mary Cain
4:15.07 *Elise Cranny
MILE
4:24.19+ *Mary Cain
4:35.48+ *Elise Cranny
2 MILES
9:38.68i *Mary Cain
10:10.26+ *Sarah Baxter
5000 METERS
15:45.56 *Mary Cain
100 HURDLES
13.56 *Stefani Kerrison
13.60(A) *Dior Hall
300 HURDLES
41.24 *Alaysh’A Johnson
41.32 *Kymber Payne
HIGH
6-1 **Cyre Virgo
6-¼ ***Vashti Cunningham
POLE VAULT
13-9 *Desiree Freier
13-8 **Kaitlyn Merritt
13-7¼ *Bonnie Draxler
LONG JUMP
21-0 ***Courtney Corrin
20-11¾ *Keturah Orji
TRIPLE JUMP
44-11 *Keturah Orji
42-2¼ *Kenija Collier
SHOT
52-1¾ *Stamatia Scarvelis
51-8½ *Ashlie Blake
DISCUS
168-6 *Adriana Brown
161-6 *Stamatia Scarvelis
HAMMER
192-5 **Sabrina Gaitán’
182-1 *Kelli Thomas
JAVELIN
161-5 *Karen Bulger
156-8 ***Katelyn Gochenour
155-1 ***Tairyn Montgomery
HEPTATHLON
5158(A) *Alexa Harmon-Thomas
5082 *Ashlee Moore
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby TxHottrack » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:18 pm

Top 5 girls (Seniors)

100
Ariana Washington 11.18
Ky Westbrook 11.38
Hannah Cunlife 11.48
Akeyla Mitchell 11.48
Gabrielle Cantrell 11.50

200
Ariana Washington 23.05
Ky Westbrook 23.37
Hannah Cunlife 23.44
Deanna Hill 23.65
Marcquita Stalbot 23.70

400
Olivia Baker 52.71
Raevyn Rogers 53.34
Oksana Lawrence 53.61
Kendall Ellis 53.80
Ellie Heiden 54.15
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby TxHottrack » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:27 pm

Top 5 girls (Seniors)

800
Mary Cain 1:59.51
Raevyn Rogers 2:03.32
Karina Shepard 2:08.05
Maddy Berkson 2:08.40
Elise Cranny 2:08.50

100h
Alysha Johnson 13.52
Dior Hall 13.53
Stefani Kerrison 13.56
Ariel Jones 13.66
Chantel Ray 13.69

300h
Alaysha Johnso 41.24
Kymber Payne 41.32
Ariel Jones 41.56
Tiana Bonds 41.86
Daeshon Gordon 42.15
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby DoubleRBar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:49 pm

Two that I am very interested in seeing this year are Courtney Corrin in the long jump and Randall Cunningham in the high jump. I saw both compete last season and I believe they both have fantastic futures in our sport. Of course there are lots more with great futures in track and field, but these two seem special.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:58 pm

DoubleRBar wrote:Two that I am very interested in seeing this year are Courtney Corrin in the long jump and Randall Cunningham in the high jump. I saw both compete last season and I believe they both have fantastic futures in our sport. Of course there are lots more with great futures in track and field, but these two seem special.


That's if Cunningham doesn't move to football only
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby DoubleRBar » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:40 am

Then we'll go with his sister, Vashti.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby aaronk » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:12 pm

In the above lists, missing are Alexa Efraimson (4:16.00 1500) and Gabrielle Williams (HJ).
Williams was injured in 2013, but I believe she's now just an 11th grader!!

Also missing is Bailey Roth (2K SC), who I think is capable of taking down Jeff Hess's 1979 3K SC mark of 8:50.1.

As an added thought, it would be shameful if their coaches/powers-that-be don't set up a race (at 3K/2 miles or 5000) between Cain, Efraimson, Cranny, and Baxter on the track next spring!!

That would be a once-in-a-lifetime EPIC race....with the HSR sure to be destroyed!!
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:38 pm

aaronk wrote:coaches/powers-that-be don't set up a race (at 3K/2 miles or 5000) between Cain, Efraimson, Cranny, and Baxter on the track next spring!!

Now that Cain is essentially a pro in every regard except the $$$ part (which apparently is not even an issue), I'm beginning to feel it's not 'fair' (whatever that means) for her to be given credit for HSRs any more.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby bushop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:15 pm

Marlow wrote:
aaronk wrote:coaches/powers-that-be don't set up a race (at 3K/2 miles or 5000) between Cain, Efraimson, Cranny, and Baxter on the track next spring!!
Now that Cain is essentially a pro in every regard except the $$$ part (which apparently is not even an issue), I'm beginning to feel it's not 'fair' (whatever that means) for her to be given credit for HSRs any more.

I'm not seeing that. Can you share your reasoning?
Cain and Gill are on similar paths... except I don't think he's currently a student in any way.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby bushop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:17 pm

aaronk wrote:As an added thought, it would be shameful if their coaches/powers-that-be don't set up a race (at 3K/2 miles or 5000) between Cain, Efraimson, Cranny, and Baxter on the track next spring.

Do you have an idea if any of them are from states that limit travel for HS athletes (Michigan does)? A post-grad meet would work but s spring meet would be grand.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 pm

bushop wrote:
Marlow wrote:
aaronk wrote:coaches/powers-that-be don't set up a race (at 3K/2 miles or 5000) between Cain, Efraimson, Cranny, and Baxter on the track next spring!!
Now that Cain is essentially a pro in every regard except the $$$ part (which apparently is not even an issue), I'm beginning to feel it's not 'fair' (whatever that means) for her to be given credit for HSRs any more.

I'm not seeing that. Can you share your reasoning?

It just strikes me that she is competing as a pro does. Salazar picks her races - there is no 'allegiance' to a team or its goals. She is trained by a pro, races only when pros would, and has no 'distractions' like HS kids do (athletically speaking).
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby aaronk » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:41 pm

bushop wrote:
aaronk wrote:As an added thought, it would be shameful if their coaches/powers-that-be don't set up a race (at 3K/2 miles or 5000) between Cain, Efraimson, Cranny, and Baxter on the track next spring.

Do you have an idea if any of them are from states that limit travel for HS athletes (Michigan does)? A post-grad meet would work but s spring meet would be grand.


In a similar vein is the "problem" with Bailey Roth (mentioned in my first post here).
CO high schools don't run the SC, so his successes at 2K SC came in the post-season.
In order to challenge the HSR at 3K SC, he'd have to do it at an out-of-state meet!!
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby gh » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:04 pm

The no-records-for-Cain thoughts belong in the Wussification thread in Not Track. Somebody gets too good, so we pull their records? puh-leeze.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby bushop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:18 pm

Marlow wrote:
bushop wrote:
Marlow wrote:I'm beginning to feel it's not 'fair' (whatever that means) for Cain to be given credit for HSRs any more.
I'm not seeing that. Can you share your reasoning?
It just strikes me that she is competing as a pro does. Salazar picks her races - there is no 'allegiance' to a team or its goals. She is trained by a pro, races only when pros would, and has no 'distractions' like HS kids do (athletically speaking).

We had a 400m boy drop from 49-high to 47-low his senior year... only ran six 400m (including relays) including states. Is it possible for a wise coach to do as Salazar does?
... and what about ten years from now when public schools have dropped interscholastic sports due to lack of funding and the US had begun a move towards the European club sports model? No one will be racing in their school's vest.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:06 pm

gh wrote:The no-records-for-Cain thoughts belong in the Wussification thread in Not Track. Somebody gets too good, so we pull their records? puh-leeze.

??!!
It has nothing to do with how good she is, everything to do with the circumstances of her running and racing. Is she NOT a pro in most ways except the $$$? I do not expect T&FN (the ONLY 'legit' record authority in the country) to ignore her races; I just said that it seemed 'unfair', because she does not have to deal with the 'hindrances' (for the truly elite) of being on a HS team.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby bushop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:47 pm

Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:The no-records-for-Cain thoughts belong in the Wussification thread in Not Track. Somebody gets too good, so we pull their records? puh-leeze.
It has nothing to do with how good she is...

Isn't your issue with HS record setting performances–which would be part of the how good she is rubric?
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:51 pm

I don't like high school records for someone who is going to have a difficult time getting through the NCAA clearinghouse.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby nztrackfan » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:43 am

I thought Mary Cain was still at school. So being eligible for High School records is a no brainer I would have thought!
Apart from Jacko Gill we have a similar situation here in NZ with a golfer just announcing she is turning pro. She will still be attending high school and sitting exams next year, which still makes her a school student in my books.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby PDJ551 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:18 am

I have always gotten a kick how new kids come along and discover that they have incredible talent and what it takes to race. On that list last year was Joe White from DePaul H.S. in northern NJ. Joe had tried his hand at baseball during his first two years in high school and it hadn't worked out too well. He went out for indoor track last winter and by the end of the season was running 50 point in the 400. I guess (I don't know the situation personally just what I've read in the newspaper) a wise coach moved him up to the 800 in the spring. By championship season (many tiered in NJ) he was in the 1:54 range. Then in late season he ran a couple of 1:50s in big time competition. A great story that has more chapters ahead!
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:22 am

nztrackfan wrote:I thought Mary Cain was still at school. So being eligible for High School records is a no brainer I would have thought!

Not really. She could have signed a pro contract while still in HS. HS pros cannot set HS records.
My distinction (and I fully realize why it will be ignored) is that she is a pro in every way but the contract (which, come to think of it, she may well have with Salazar, for him to coach her) and $$$.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Pego » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:32 am

Marlow wrote:HS pros cannot set HS records.


Why not? Is there such a rule on the record? Are there actual rules for HS records nationwide? Individual states? If there are, is an independent entity such as T&FN in any way obligated to honor such a rule? Finally, is there a precedent?
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby lonewolf » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:40 am

Pego wrote:
Marlow wrote:HS pros cannot set HS records.


Why not? Is there such a rule on the record? Are there actual rules for HS records nationwide? Individual states? If there are, is an independent entity such as T&FN in any way obligated to honor such a rule? Finally, is there a precedent?

Yeah, inquiring minds want to know. :?
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:47 am

Pego wrote:
Marlow wrote:HS pros cannot set HS records.

Why not? Is there such a rule on the record? Are there actual rules for HS records nationwide? Individual states? If there are, is an independent entity such as T&FN in any way obligated to honor such a rule? Finally, is there a precedent?

??!!
As you well know, T&FN is the ONLY entity that keeps real HSRs. Their stance for college is pretty firm: sign a pro contract and you can't break a CR. Do you think it's different for HS?

I wonder if pro golf or tennis teens have ever tried to play that sport for their HSs. Might be an interesting law-suit.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Pego » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:44 am

Marlow wrote:Their stance for college is pretty firm: sign a pro contract and you can't break a CR. Do you think it's different for HS?


I don't know, that is why I am asking questions. You said that MC could not break HS records as a pro, so I assumed, you know :wink: .College athletics is ruled by NCAA. I am not aware of a HS equivalent. Is it there? Nationally? I know the states have their governing bodies. Do they address professionalism? Some of them? All of them.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby DrJay » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:21 am

Cain....so she runs for her HS as a junior and senior, jogs 5:15 and 2:20 to win duel meets, runs a bit faster to win invites, wins state, then runs 4:14 1500 at New Balance and 4:08 at Pre. Might not have gotten the 4:04 as a junior, but nevertheless breaks the NHSR. The 800 is a bit more problematic but she gets it as a senior. Her sequence of marks is not as impressive, but she gets the records, maybe a little slower than if she were just running and racing a pro schedule.

She's a once-in-a-lifetime HS middle distance star, the Edwin Moses or Sergey Bubka of her event (and then some.) Just enjoy it.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:16 am

DrJay wrote:Cain....so she runs for her HS as a junior and senior, jogs 5:15 and 2:20 to win duel meets, runs a bit faster to win invites, wins state, then runs 4:14 1500 at New Balance and 4:08 at Pre. Might not have gotten the 4:04 as a junior, but nevertheless breaks the NHSR. The 800 is a bit more problematic but she gets it as a senior. Her sequence of marks is not as impressive, but she gets the records, maybe a little slower than if she were just running and racing a pro schedule.
She's a once-in-a-lifetime HS middle distance star, the Edwin Moses or Sergey Bubka of her event (and then some.) Just enjoy it.

No one is saying she SHOULD run for her HS. She is waaay beyond that now, which is why the idea of her breaking "high school" records, even though she's the right age, seems weird to me. If she did what some kids do - go to college after her jr year in HS, she would also not be eligible for HS records. It's not about her 'age'; it's about the fact that she is NOT a high school runner.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:19 am

Pego wrote:College athletics is ruled by NCAA. I am not aware of a HS equivalent. Is it there? Nationally? I know the states have their governing bodies. Do they address professionalism? Some of them? All of them.

HS track is 'run' by NFHS, but their 'records' can only be set in championship meets. All the state federations have to follow NFHS rules. Some private schools don't belong, but I can't think of any public schools who don't. Here's the Florida rule:

9.9.2 Forfeiture of Amateur Status. A student-athlete forfeits amateur status in a particular sport for one year by:
(a) Competing for money or other monetary compensations;
(b) Receiving any award or prize of monetary value which has not been approved by the FHSAA;
(c) Capitalizing on athletic fame by receiving money or gifts of a monetary nature;
(d) Signing a professional playing contract in any sport or hiring an agent to manage his/her athletic career;
Last edited by Marlow on Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby DrJay » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:22 am

Marlow wrote:No one is saying she SHOULD run for her HS. She is waaay beyond that now, which is why the idea of her breaking "high school" records, even though she's the right age, seems weird to me. If she did what some kids do - go to college after her jr year in HS, she would also not be eligible for HS records. It's not about her 'age'; it's about the fact that she is NOT a high school runner.


But it sounds like if she was running for her HS and all that entails, you would be more comfortable ascribing high school records to her. And her best times would be somewhat slower, but certainly still a HSR (by far) in the 1500/mile and likely (in a post-HS season meet) in the 800.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:23 am

I like how the NFHS records work, because you need to win a race to set a record. Setting a record by finishing in the middle of the pack in a race that is above the high school level of competition seems artificial to me.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Pego » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:30 am

Marlow wrote:[quote="Pego"College athletics is ruled by NCAA. I am not aware of a HS equivalent. Is it there? Nationally? I know the states have their governing bodies. Do they address professionalism? Some of them? All of them.

HS track is 'run' by NFHS, but their 'records' can only be set in championship meets. All the state federations have to follow NFHS rules. Some private schools don't belong, but I can't think of any public schools who don't. Here's the Florida rule:

9.9.2 Forfeiture of Amateur Status. A student-athlete forfeits amateur status in a particular sport for one year by:
(a) Competing for money or other monetary compensations;
(b) Receiving any award or prize of monetary value which has not been approved by the FHSAA;
(c) Capitalizing on athletic fame by receiving money or gifts of a monetary nature;
(d) Signing a professional playing contract in any sport or hiring an agent to manage his/her athletic career;[/quote]

Thank you. This sounds pretty straight forward.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:17 am

DrJay wrote:But it sounds like if she was running for her HS and all that entails, you would be more comfortable ascribing high school records to her. And her best times would be somewhat slower, but certainly still a HSR (by far) in the 1500/mile and likely (in a post-HS season meet) in the 800.

I agree. If she ran for her HS, she WOULD be slowed in her progress, which means she DOES have a clear advantage over others when it comes to setting HSRs. I'm glad she is NOT running for her HS. But I also don't think HSRs are even a focus for her any more. Winning the Sr USATF is now; getting out on 'the circuit' is.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby aaronk » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:07 pm

Wow, this is so cool!!
In a thread titled "2014 HS Returners", I post about some missing names (Efraimson, Roth, G Williams etc).
Then I mention it would be "EPIC" if a track race could be set up between Efraimson, Baxter, Cranny, and.......Mary Cain.

Then I don't say anything else.

Then the thread takes that throwaway comment about that fantasy race and turns it into a HUGE discussion about.......Mary Cain!!

Obsessive?
Creepy?

And still not anywhere to be seen are comments about Roth, Williams, Efraimson et al.
(Does anyone know what's happening with Gabrielle Williams? If she can return to her soph year shape next spring, she could nab the HSR in the HJ!!)

Okay, back to Mary!! :P
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby kuha » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:41 pm

aaronk wrote:Obsessive?
Creepy?


You said it.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby aaronk » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:18 pm

kuha wrote:
aaronk wrote:Obsessive?
Creepy?


You said it.


I agree.......in a half-joking kind of way!
And for once, it's NOT focused on ME!!!! :D
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby kuha » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:32 pm

aaronk wrote:
kuha wrote:
aaronk wrote:Obsessive?
Creepy?


You said it.


in a half-joking kind of way!
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby aaronk » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:23 pm

kuha wrote:
aaronk wrote:
kuha wrote:
aaronk wrote:Obsessive?
Creepy?


You said it.


in a half-joking kind of way!


Who is obsessed and creepy now?
And you STILL don't get it, do you?/
So I'll guide you through it, step by step.

1. I write a ton of stuff about Cain throughout the indoor and outdoor track season.
2. I get attacked by you and several others, with the above 2 words used against me.
3. This thread appears, titled "2014 HS Returners".
4. I post that the names of Bailey Roth, Alexa Efraimson, and Gabrielle Williams are missing from people's lists.
5. I mention it would be great if a one-off track race could be set up between Efraimson, Baxter, Cranny, and Cain.
6. The next MANY posts (none by me!) ALL talk about Cain, and whether she's eligible to break HSR's, etc.....which BTW has nothing to do with this thread!!!
7 None of these people are attacked or called obsessive or creepy for going on and on about Cain!!
8. I decide to get a bit snarky, and "half-joke" about those others being obsessive and creepy.
9. Then YOU attack ME.....basically saying I am the one who's obsessive and creepy!!
10. NOT ONE WORD is said about the OTHERS who IGNORED what I said about Williams, Efraimson, and Roth.....and zeroed in on my fantasy race suggestion.....only 25% of which would include Cain!!!!!!

So how about BACKING OFF.......and instead of this bullshit you're throwing out......answer my queries about Williams and Roth.

That would be closer to the theme of this thread than all this crap about Cain!!!
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:55 pm

aaronk wrote:9. Then YOU attack ME.....basically saying I am the one who's obsessive and creepy!!
10. NOT ONE WORD is said about the OTHERS who IGNORED what I said about Williams, Efraimson, and Roth.....and zeroed in on my fantasy race suggestion.....only 25% of which would include Cain!!!!!! So how about BACKING OFF.......and instead of this bullshit you're throwing out......answer my queries about Williams and Roth.

Over-reaction alert!

Your obsession with MC is no more creepy or obsessive than mine for Stacy Dragila or trackdaddy's for Sanya Richards . . . uh . . . OK, bad examples . . .

Nah, you're fine. A little touchy, but fine. Kuha is fine too. :D
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby DCSIGMA » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:05 am

Does Long Beach Poly girls bring back all from their 4x1 that ran 44.9 last year?

I know Forest Park boys bring back 3/4 of their team that ran 40.5 at nationals....w/their fastest running M. Williams.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby philly cheesesteak » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:48 am

DCSIGMA wrote:Does Long Beach Poly girls bring back all from their 4x1 that ran 44.9 last year?

I know Forest Park boys bring back 3/4 of their team that ran 40.5 at nationals....w/their fastest running M. Williams.



I don't know about Forest Park.Poly had one senior on that squad,but I saw somewhere that they have a frosh phenom by the name of Lauren Williams at the school.If they stay healthy,they can do big things.
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Re: 2014 HS Returners

Postby philly cheesesteak » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:55 am

I THINK Serra(CA) has three guys returning from a 40.4 squad
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