a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread


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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:15 am

Oh GOODIE!!!!!!!!!
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby aaronk » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:21 am

Dutra5 wrote:Oh GOODIE!!!!!!!!!


Glad you're happy.
But be careful.
Too much excitement in one day is bad for the heart. :)
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby effable » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:05 pm

She'll have that option, true, but this is a motivated high-achieving student from an academic family in a academically driven community. She is going to college. And fwiw, which is not much, it seems to me she has put too much into her studies to choose a college based on being able to train in Oregon with Salazar. Maybe down the road, not next year. She's headed to one of the Ivies, or possibly Stanford. Turning pro is a separate issue.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby aaronk » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:16 am

News is out....from Salazar.....
NO XC for Cain!
Her running form is being changed.....and she's doing "great".
No speed workouts yet, and doing just 5 miles a day, every day, working on changing her running form.
No word on what her indoor season will look like, but a few weeks ago, an article quoted Salazar as saying it would be "busy".

Can't wait!!
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby DrJay » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:45 pm

Does she have Lucky Charms, Fruit Loops, or Captain Crunch for breakfast??
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby aaronk » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:53 pm

DrJay wrote:Does she have Lucky Charms, Fruit Loops, or Captain Crunch for breakfast??


What are you asking me for??
If you really MUST know, call her mom or dad and ask THEM!!

Sheesh!
Celebrity hounds!!
And for a TRACK athlete, no less!! :roll:
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Gerroferrar » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:28 am

...
Mary Cain is very talented indeed! :p

She'll focus on 1500, the 800 is going to be too brutal in 2015, too much so for Cain.
This is how I saw the semi-finals in my vision, unfortunately, I can only recall the top 6 of each semi :wink:

Semi 1 semi 2 semi 3
Savinova. Eunice Sum. Semenya
Niyonsaba. Montano Jelimo
Jepkosgei Poistogova Martinez
Meadows Magiso. Akkaoui
Sinclair Hachlaf. Kotulskaya
Wilson Lupu. Matsko

Results were in that order, fastest losers came from first semi.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby aaronk » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:15 am

Alana Hadley, 16 year old high school runner, has become a professional athlete.
Her father, Mark, announced she accepted the prize money (She finished 4th in the Indy Marathon last week!) and bonuses from her OT qualifying marathon.

Mary Cain, are you listening?
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby 18.99s » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:13 am

aaronk wrote:Alana Hadley, 16 year old high school runner, has become a professional athlete.
Her father, Mark, announced she accepted the prize money (She finished 4th in the Indy Marathon last week!) and bonuses from her OT qualifying marathon.

Mary Cain, are you listening?


No she's not listening. Her father is in the 1% and she's still supported by him; she's not enticed by five-figure prizes or contracts that are appealing to the 99%ers.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:24 am

aaronk wrote:Alana Hadley, 16 year old high school runner, has become a professional athlete.

So, to re-address the above posts that say, "She's in high school, so she should be eligible for HSRs," what say you about this?
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Master Po » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:28 am

18.99s wrote:
aaronk wrote:Alana Hadley, 16 year old high school runner, has become a professional athlete.
Her father, Mark, announced she accepted the prize money (She finished 4th in the Indy Marathon last week!) and bonuses from her OT qualifying marathon.

Mary Cain, are you listening?


No she's not listening. Her father is in the 1% and she's still supported by him; she's not enticed by five-figure prizes or contracts that are appealing to the 99%ers.


^ re Hadley's prize money earned at the Indianapolis marathon this past weekend, I suppose we could call it a "five-figure prize" if we include the two figures to the right of the decimal point. She earned $400 for her 4th place finish.

I wish her well in all her athletics pursuits, and for all I know she'll turn out to be a great one. More important, I hope she turns out to be a happy and healthy one. But -- assuming the information in this thread is accurate -- she has now foregone even the possibility of considering further a collegiate athletics scholarship, or participation in collegiate athletics, for her 2:41:56 & $400 prize. As a HS junior, she seems far enough along in HS to realize what she's foregoing by not participating further in HS athletics. However, in this the Fall of her junior HS year, I question her judgment in knowing enough about collegiate possibilities to make an informed decision about her possible collegiate athletics future.

This is just my $.02, of course, which is $398.98 less than she earned for her run this past weekend. However, this opinion is based on working a lot with young people in this age range (late HS, college), and at this point, even brilliant and mature HS juniors don't have much of an idea about what might be a good thing to do post-HS. So, these options are no longer open for Hadley, and now she's a pro. I wish her success, good health, and happiness. :)
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:38 am

Master Po wrote:even brilliant and mature HS juniors don't have much of an idea about what might be a good thing to do post-HS. So, these options are no longer open for Hadley, and now she's a pro.

Gotta agree. Has she not just turned down $100,000 (or more!) in scholarship money?
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:50 am

Marlow wrote:
Master Po wrote:even brilliant and mature HS juniors don't have much of an idea about what might be a good thing to do post-HS. So, these options are no longer open for Hadley, and now she's a pro.

Gotta agree. Has she not just turned down $100,000 (or more!) in scholarship money?


Me too. What an absurd, insane decision for a crappy $400 (plus whatever...).
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby gh » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:22 am

Nobody gives big scholarship money to marathon runners; no return for the school.

Now if she had any track times of note….
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:32 am

gh wrote:Nobody gives big scholarship money to marathon runners; no return for the school.


But with $400 as our benchmark, "big" doesn't need to be very "big" at all...
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby gh » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:41 am

I should have added that I think it was a truly dumb decision on her (or one suspects, her parents') part.

Cutting off options at such a young age for a mess of pottage is ridiculous.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby lonewolf » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:33 am

I had never heard of Alana Hadley until few days ago. I do not know her family circumstances or academic credentials but am dumbfounded by her/parents decision.
I will personally give her $400 if it is possible for her to return the prize money and regain amateur status.
I can be contacted through this website.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby aaronk » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:35 am

gh wrote:Nobody gives big scholarship money to marathon runners; no return for the school.

Now if she had any track times of note….


The only track time I know of for her is the 34:59.38 she ran in 2012 as a frosh!
That's listed in HS Track as #2 in 2012 (behind Cayla Hatton), and 9th performer on the A-T list.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby gh » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:05 am

now if she had any track times of note...
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:09 am

gh wrote:now if she had any track times of note...

I'm pretty sure there are coaches out there who see her potential for CC and NCAA 10000. She would have gotten a scholarship from SOMEone.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby TN1965 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:05 pm

Marlow wrote:
gh wrote:now if she had any track times of note...

I'm pretty sure there are coaches out there who see her potential for CC and NCAA 10000. She would have gotten a scholarship from SOMEone.


But is she interested in 10000m on track or cross country? Everything I have read about her indicates she is not. Either she believes those races won't help her becoming a better marathoner in the long run, or she is not interested in the long term development. (You can replace "she " with "her father" here if you want.)
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:26 pm

I'd like to know what someone like Steve Spence thinks of this.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby aaronk » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:48 pm

Just now dawned on me......
there are two kinds of T&F professionals.

1. The athlete accepts prizes or other monetary and material benefits from their appearance and/or performance.

2. The athlete has signed a formal contract with a shoe company or other agency or organization, and has an agent (though this might not be necessary).

On #2 point, wouldn't she need her dad to sign the contract FOR her, since she's not old enough to sign contracts??

P.S. I know there's been some criticism of her turning pro this early. And most of the criticism focuses on her father, who coaches her.

Did you know he coaches about 20 people??
That's what the NYT article said, which I mentioned earlier.
It did NOT indicate whether those 20 were all HS athletes, all girls, or whether they're a mixed group of male and female, older and younger.

Not that knowing this would change anyone's opinion of Mr Hadley.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:09 pm

TN1965 wrote:But is she interested in 10000m on track or cross country? Everything I have read about her indicates she is not. Either she believes those races won't help her becoming a better marathoner in the long run, or she is not interested in the long term development. (You can replace "she " with "her father" here if you want.)


This is a good observation, for sure. It does seem as if she/they are focused pretty much entirely on marathons. That seems completely nuts to me, but it is her life and her/their decision as to what to do.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby JumboElliott » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:14 pm

Bullshit. She's 16 years old and this has obviously been in the works for a while. When I was 16 (not too long ago) and I wanted to do something stupid, my parents would have said no.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:22 pm

JumboElliott wrote:Bullshit. She's 16 years old and this has obviously been in the works for a while. When I was 16 (not too long ago) and I wanted to do something stupid, my parents would have said no.


So, you are saying bullshit to: "it is her life and her/their decision as to what to do"? Sorry, but it actually IS her life and her/their decision as to what to do. What you and your parents might have done umpteen years ago doesn't matter here.

And I say that while emphasizing that I think the decision here is completely nuts. But they've made it and will live with it.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:53 pm

kuha wrote: But they've made it and will live with it.

Kids who display great athletic prowess at an early age (through HS) are more narcotic than heroin to MANY parents. Otherwise sensible people become raving lunatics in their delusion of what their child can do in the short term and long. I have seen far too many parents go completely off the deep end when trying to 'enable' their kids to be a star. :(
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby bushop » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Marlow wrote:I have seen far too many parents go completely off the deep end when trying to 'enable' their kids to be a star. :(

30% of our team does this.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Master Po » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:59 am

Agree with pretty much all that's been stated on this thread so far re Alana Hadley. A bit more information on her stats through this stage of her career as a HS student:

She made Footlocker Nationals in 2011 as a frosh; finished 34th. I know we've seen some great performances by frosh in that meet, but in 2011, there were only two in that grade year, Hadley & Makeena Morley (finished 9th). In Spring of 2012, still her HS frosh year, she was apparently done with HS competition (though I don't know if she ran HS track that year), as she ran the 34:59.38 aaronk mentioned. That was at Sea Ray Relays. It was not a big race -- only 8 finishers, but all collegiate, iirc (but not top-level, of course). Second place was 36:39, so even though it was not a big race, Hadley as a 9th grader in a collegiate environment won by 1 minute 40 seconds, which suggests to me that she probably had a faster time in her, had anyone been around to chase a bit or run with through the entire race. She also ran a 16:51 5k (also mentioned by aaronk, I think) that Spring. I think this was a road race. So, all of that at least suggested some potential.

In her soph year of HS (Fall 2012), she seems to really be done with HS competition, because she was racing some open/collegiate XC races, and doing OK in them. Spring of this year, which would have been her soph year of HS track had she participated, she moved up to the marathon -- that was her 2:58 at Cleveland Marathon. And now, in her HS junior year, on to the 2:41:56, as we know.

And even though what she's doing of course is not big news (at least in my view) beyond the news item of her making the US Junior a-t list in the marathon, I will be curious to see what she (and/or her father/coach) chooses to race in Spring 2014. She will turn 17 in early 2014, and will be 2 years away from her big goal, which I understand to be the 2016 OT marathon. Those 2014 Spring racing choices will perhaps tell me more about whether she/he/they have a clue beyond this accomplishment about how she might develop further, now that she has achieved this OT qualifier goal, and now that they apparently are committed to this trajectory.
Last edited by Master Po on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby kuha » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:15 am

Master Po wrote:in 2011, there were only two in that grade year, Hadley & Makeena Morley (finished 9th).


As a footnote here, Morley just demolished the all-class course record for the Montana state X-C meet. It had been 16:50 (Zoe Nelson) and she did 16:35, winning by a rather impressive 2-1/2 minutes. So her HS career is progressing quite nicely.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby bambam » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:17 am

Marlow wrote:Kids who display great athletic prowess at an early age (through HS) are more narcotic than heroin to MANY parents. Otherwise sensible people become raving lunatics in their delusion of what their child can do in the short term and long. I have seen far too many parents go completely off the deep end when trying to 'enable' their kids to be a star. :(


In our orthopaedic office, where we see many young kids with sports injuries, the standard move by our medical assistants, who see the patients first, is to come out after talking to the parents and the kid, and then, usually rolling her eyes, comment, "This kid dislocated his shoulder ... oh, yeah, and he's a pro prospect." They all are - to the parents.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:43 am

Marlow wrote:Kids who display great athletic prowess at an early age (through HS) are more narcotic than heroin to MANY parents. Otherwise sensible people become raving lunatics in their delusion of what their child can do in the short term and long. I have seen far too many parents go completely off the deep end when trying to 'enable' their kids to be a star. :(

This reminds me of a story involving my uncle. 19 years ago, my uncle asked my dad to come to a high school football game with him to see my cousin play. My cousin, who was in 10th grade at the time, had really impressed my uncle, who himself played football at Grambling during their glory days and was a football coach at another high school, but he didn't trust himself to be objective, and wanted another set of eyes to see what he was seeing. My uncle made no comments during the game, but when the game was over he asked my dad to give him a brutally honest opinion. My dad told him that he saw a man amongst boys who would no doubt play on Sundays one day. 19 years later, that 10th grader is still playing on Sundays. The moral of the story is for parents to always get someone else to judge your kid's talent.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby TN1965 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:00 pm

Here is Mark Hadley's response to the critics.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read. ... 211&page=7

Some of the other runners he coaches.

http://www.elitemarathoning.com/trialsproject.html

And here is a Runner's World article on Hadley and De Reuck.

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runne ... hon-trials
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:18 pm

The dad is saying all the right things, and I get that at 16, his daughter thinks she knows what she wants, but accepting prize money now, which guarantees she can't run for a college (and receive a scholarship - which she WOULD have gotten), is not prudent. Just because she doesn't think she wants to run in college now, doesn't mean she won't change her mind. I can also live with her 100 miles a week (Lindgren did more) at age 16, but just because her body is OK with it now, doesn't mean it won't reject it in the near future. Putting all her eggs in the road-running basket NOW . . . I'm still not buying it . . . but as the dad says, they're going into this with their eyes open, so it's their call.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby aaronk » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:01 pm

TN1965 wrote:Here is Mark Hadley's response to the critics.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read. ... 211&page=7

Some of the other runners he coaches.

http://www.elitemarathoning.com/trialsproject.html

And here is a Runner's World article on Hadley and De Reuck.

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runne ... hon-trials


Interesting...especially the "open letter" from Mr Hadley and the list of his athletes.
But being partial to TRACK (over road or XC) races, I still believe she/he are making a mistake in not having her race on the track.
No, not in college or high school. (Too late for that!!)
But to run some elite meets (Stanford, Oxy, Mt SAC, Penn....Raleigh Relays (near her home)).
She's forfeiting her speed by focusing solely on 13.1 and 26.2 distances.
An occasional mile, 5000 or 10000 would help, not hinder her progress toward her goals.

After all, some VERY serious (and excellent) American female marathoners ALSO race on the track.....Kara Goucher, Shalane Flanagan, Amy Hastings, to name three.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:25 pm

I don't think parents should be permitting children to make a decision to remove a future option for them which could involve as much money and chance as eligibility for collegiate athletics provide no matter how much the child was in agreement or part of the decision.

Children often don't verbalize what they mean and also can be easily swayed into what a parent might want them to do. So I would not look at this situation as well thought out. A well thought out answer would have been to allow the girl to compete in whatever events she wishes currently and keep her collegiate eligibility.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby gh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:58 pm

After reading dad's explanation on letsrun I'm far less critical. Still think it's the wrong way to go, but my spidey-sense about pushy parents not doing right by their kids isn't going off the way it was before.

And no, now that she's running for money (and has been since earlier in the year), we won't consider any of her marks for high school lists.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby kuha » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:34 pm

gh wrote:After reading dad's explanation on letsrun I'm far less critical. Still think it's the wrong way to go, but my spidey-sense about pushy parents not doing right by their kids isn't going off the way it was before.


Yes. Still think its nuts, but its their decision and as considered as any such decision probably could be.
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Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

Postby tandfman » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:05 am

A nice blog by Alana Hadley, with lots of photos, is now linked in the front page headline section.
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