What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?


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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby ATK » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:00 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
mump boy wrote:Serious ? Allyson has it harder because she has to run agains VCB ?

I'd rather run against her than against Koch, Dreschler, Gladisch, Flo Jo, Merlene etc If we swapped places Allyson would surely have a lot less medals.

Are you denying that the sport is deeper now than it was then? If those runners had all been born in 1985, their PR's would probably all be slower than they are today, and I'll leave it at that.

If we threw the Allyson we know of today into the races of the late 80s to mid 90s, she wouldn't have close to the success and recognition she has now. That's based purely on frequency of the times that were run. But that assumption falls into the same category as most other comparisons between eras...useless. Different training methods, equipment, supplements/diets, tracks, race conditions...the list goes on.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:45 pm

ATK wrote:But that assumption falls into the same category as most other comparisons between eras...useless. Different training methods, equipment, supplements/diets, tracks, race conditions...the list goes on.

That's what I was getting at.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby maroon » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:50 pm

ATK wrote: If we threw the Allyson we know of today into the races of the late 80s to mid 90s, she wouldn't have close to the success and recognition she has now. That's based purely on frequency of the times that were run. But that assumption falls into the same category as most other comparisons between eras...useless. Different training methods, equipment, supplements/diets, tracks, race conditions...the list goes on.


the opposite argument is what I usually see here because almost everything you have listed has gotten better. is there a factor that is not listed?
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:10 pm

maroon wrote:the opposite argument is what I usually see here because almost everything you have listed has gotten better. is there a factor that is not listed?

One thing he didn't mention on his list is drug testing. That's also gotten better.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby mump boy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:19 am

ATK wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
mump boy wrote:Serious ? Allyson has it harder because she has to run agains VCB ?

I'd rather run against her than against Koch, Dreschler, Gladisch, Flo Jo, Merlene etc If we swapped places Allyson would surely have a lot less medals.

Are you denying that the sport is deeper now than it was then? If those runners had all been born in 1985, their PR's would probably all be slower than they are today, and I'll leave it at that.

If we threw the Allyson we know of today into the races of the late 80s to mid 90s, she wouldn't have close to the success and recognition she has now. That's based purely on frequency of the times that were run. But that assumption falls into the same category as most other comparisons between eras...useless. Different training methods, equipment, supplements/diets, tracks, race conditions...the list goes on.


Exactly

And half as many opportunities to medal, which was my original point.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby fasttrak85 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:45 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
maroon wrote:the opposite argument is what I usually see here because almost everything you have listed has gotten better. is there a factor that is not listed?

One thing he didn't mention on his list is drug testing. That's also gotten better.


Yup and as drug testing has gotten better womens sprint times have slowed. Aint it funny how that works? Allysons 21.69 is all the more impressive when you take the full history into consideration.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Jerham » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:44 pm

The womens 200m is just going through a lull plus the late 80's and 90'S we have had soem great 200m runners. The 100m times of athletes like Privalova, Torrence, Ottey, Jackson, are in a similar range as these current athletes. Plus during that period a lot of the 100m sprinters also trained and competed fiercely in the 200m. So maybe they had a better balance of speed strength and the understanding of how to run great 200m.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Rog » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:29 am

fasttrak85 wrote:If Allyson was running in the 80's she would likely be an more "enhanced" version of herself or you are right she would have a much tougher time getting medals. She would have had to get down with the get down.


She would have had to drop alot more 21's!!! Now, running against FloJo in 1988 would not have been fair for AF... :lol:[/quote]]

If Allyson was running in the 1980s her training partners would have been Flo Jo Valerie Brisco and Gail Devers(towards the end of her career). Allyson would be the world record holder at 200 meters and might even have the 400 meter world record, Her pbs would be 21.25 and 47.50.[/quote]


I'm not sure Allyson's theoretical times in the 80s would be much different to what they are now. After all, she's a Bobby Kersee-trained athlete and she already benefits from all the tips and tricks he's gained over the years. She competes very sparingly and places an emphasis on peaking for the Championships, just like VB-H, JJK etc did. She has the advantage of running on faster tracks these days, and because the 200 isn't so competitive anymore she can get away with running 22.5 in a World Championship and still get a medal. In the 80s that wouldn't have cut it. I'm not sure Allyson could have won any golds in the 80s, with the possible exception of the boycotted OG of 84, where the American women enjoyed definite home advantages.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Gleason » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:12 pm

maroon wrote:don't get the point of your first three sentences. i doubt we will see her doing the 200/400 dbl again since it didn't work out so well for her in daegu. the 100/200 dbl is more likely given the results from london. i wish her a speedy recovery.


I also wish her a speedy recovery, but I disagree about her 100 vs. her 400. She was 5th in the 100 at London but was 2nd in the 400 at Daegu despite some of her actions that I don't understand.

In 2011 she defeated Montsho at Rome in the 400 for the 7th consecutive time according to my calculations, but she ran the 200 45 minutes later. The schedule at Daegu allowed for two days rest between the 400 final and the 200 heats. She was 4th in the 200 at Rome then 3rd in the 400 at Eugene one week later. She won the USAT&F 400 to qualify for Daegu in the 400 and 200 but ran only one open race before Daegu.

In the July 2013 T&FN she said (p.16) "Being fast in the 100 helps me in the 200." I agree, but I wonder if running 400s hurts her 200. Jeter ran two 100s and three 200s between USAT&F and Daegu, so why did she not do the same?

In 2007 she qualified for the 100 and 200 at Osaka then ran eight races (four 200s and two each at 100 and 400). Her 400s were her last races before Osaka. She dropped the 100 there yet ran a 200 PR and legs on the winning 4x100 and 4x400 (48.0). Why did she do so well without running the 100 there?

I have the highest regard for her as an athlete and as a person, but I suspect that she should race more at all three distances. I think that she can win a 400/200 double in Bejing and Rio. Perhaps a poster who knows more about sprinting than I do can answer my questions.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby fasttrak85 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:42 pm

Gleason wrote:
maroon wrote:don't get the point of your first three sentences. i doubt we will see her doing the 200/400 dbl again since it didn't work out so well for her in daegu. the 100/200 dbl is more likely given the results from london. i wish her a speedy recovery.


I also wish her a speedy recovery, but I disagree about her 100 vs. her 400. She was 5th in the 100 at London but was 2nd in the 400 at Daegu despite some of her actions that I don't understand.

In 2011 she defeated Montsho at Rome in the 400 for the 7th consecutive time according to my calculations, but she ran the 200 45 minutes later. The schedule at Daegu allowed for two days rest between the 400 final and the 200 heats. She was 4th in the 200 at Rome then 3rd in the 400 at Eugene one week later. She won the USAT&F 400 to qualify for Daegu in the 400 and 200 but ran only one open race before Daegu.

In the July 2013 T&FN she said (p.16) "Being fast in the 100 helps me in the 200." I agree, but I wonder if running 400s hurts her 200. Jeter ran two 100s and three 200s between USAT&F and Daegu, so why did she not do the same?

In 2007 she qualified for the 100 and 200 at Osaka then ran eight races (four 200s and two each at 100 and 400). Her 400s were her last races before Osaka. She dropped the 100 there yet ran a 200 PR and legs on the winning 4x100 and 4x400 (48.0). Why did she do so well without running the 100 there?

I have the highest regard for her as an athlete and as a person, but I suspect that she should race more at all three distances. I think that she can win a 400/200 double in Bejing and Rio. Perhaps a poster who knows more about sprinting than I do can answer my questions.


Well she has more potential at 400 than 100 there is no doubt about that. Its just that simply put since the schedule always put the 400 first when she does her fav event(200) she will be running on tired legs. The 100 in a sense will get her central nervous system sharper and get her warmed up with a quicker turnover rate. I am not sure why she did not run the 100 in Osaka but she did fine without it. However at the end of the day her pb of 21.69 and her first olympic gold medal at 200 came after running 100 rounds so there is a strong case there for that. I think Allyson has a decent shot at 400 gold in Bejing and Rio but I dont believe she has any shot at all at the double. With Shelly, Duncan, and other major players it just wont happen.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Gleason » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:18 pm

I don't know if fastrack85 is accurate, but I hope that Allyson does the 400 in Bejing at least. She has won the 200 in the OG and three 200s in the WCh.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby ATK » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:19 am

Gleason wrote:I don't know if fastrack85 is accurate, but I hope that Allyson does the 400 in Bejing at least. She has won the 200 in the OG and three 200s in the WCh.

Why omitted her 2 Olympic silvers?
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Gleason » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:22 am

ATK wrote:
Gleason wrote:I don't know if fastrack85 is accurate, but I hope that Allyson does the 400 in Bejing at least. She has won the 200 in the OG and three 200s in the WCh.

Why omitted her 2 Olympic silvers?


Good point. Not only has she won "2 Olympic silvers" at 200 and a World Championship silver at 400 plus a World Championship bronze at 200, but also she has four Olympic and six World Championship golds from relays along with the aforementioned four golds at 200. This is a total of 14 golds and 18 medals - if my math is accurate.

The only honors left for her are individual golds at Bejing and Rio at 400. Of course, 400/200/4x400/4x100 at both meets would be even better. Even Michael Johnson and Valerie Brisco didn't run 4x100.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby cheetah69 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:57 pm

I think if Allyson were running in the 90s, she'd definitely be running with the likes of Ottey, Torrence, Privalova and Perec. You notice how when one athlete does well, several others do too. In the 80s, there wasn't just one runner running under 22. We had Koch, Ashford, Gohr, Marshall, Brisco, and maybe one other. In the 90s, we had all those I mentioned. In the 2000s we had just VCB and Felix. I think when other runners run well, it forces some of the others to rise to the occasion. So I have little doubt that Felix would have done well in any decade.

And yeah yeah, I know, "what ifs" are useless. blah blah blah.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby pesmerga » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:30 am

cheetah69 wrote:I think if Allyson were running in the 90s, she'd definitely be running with the likes of Ottey, Torrence, Privalova and Perec. You notice how when one athlete does well, several others do too. In the 80s, there wasn't just one runner running under 22. We had Koch, Ashford, Gohr, Marshall, Brisco, and maybe one other. In the 90s, we had all those I mentioned. In the 2000s we had just VCB and Felix. I think when other runners run well, it forces some of the others to rise to the occasion. So I have little doubt that Felix would have done well in any decade.

And yeah yeah, I know, "what ifs" are useless. blah blah blah.


True.

When Felix is pushed, the times are going to be that much better. Look at 2010 NY Diamond League. VCB won that race in 21.98 and Felix finished with 22.02. And that race was the only loss in her 2010 season. The w200 needs such quality.

I just wish her a quick recovery now. I hope that it doesnt hinder her in the future.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby fasttrak85 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:18 am

I was watching a documentary on Allyson on youtube where it says Kersee had primed her to run sub11 sub 22 and sub 49 in 2011( this was before the start of the diamond league season). It seems all the effects of the 2011 training showed up in 2012 because they seemed to be way off the mark in 2011 and didnt meet any of the goals timewise for any of the distances. Looking back it is very possible she was overworked in 2011 especially overdistance wise. I think in 2013 she tried to intensify things quickly later in the season where she would probably gradually build. She just needs to take her time and ease in to training at her own pace for 2014. She likely wont do indoors worlds anyway so she should concentrate on winning the diamond league series in at least one event.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Gleason » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:00 pm

fasttrak85 wrote:I was watching a documentary on Allyson on youtube where it says Kersee had primed her to run sub11 sub 22 and sub 49 in 2011( this was before the start of the diamond league season). It seems all the effects of the 2011 training showed up in 2012 because they seemed to be way off the mark in 2011 and didnt meet any of the goals timewise for any of the distances. Looking back it is very possible she was overworked in 2011 especially overdistance wise. I think in 2013 she tried to intensify things quickly later in the season where she would probably gradually build. She just needs to take her time and ease in to training at her own pace for 2014. She likely wont do indoors worlds anyway so she should concentrate on winning the diamond league series in at least one event.

I agree. If my memory is accurate, she wrote in her IAAF blog that she "trained through" the 2010 USAT&F Indoor. Perhaps that is why she qualified for the World Indoor Championships in the 4x400 only. In 2010 she won the diamond league in both the 400 and 200. If she does that in 2014 she will have a "wild card " in both events and could run the 100 only at USAT&F.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby fasttrak85 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Seems like Allyson is recovering nicely. She said rehab is going well and that she should start training in a couple weeks. She wants to run both relays and the 200 in Rio and possibly another individual event. Looks like good things are in Allysons future.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby notlef70 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:54 am

fasttrak85 wrote:Seems like Allyson is recovering nicely. She said rehab is going well and that she should start training in a couple weeks. She wants to run both relays and the 200 in Rio and possibly another individual event. Looks like good things are in Allysons future.


That's great to know!!
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:52 am

I don't think she's peaked in the 400 yet. Do I get a vote for that? :D
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby fasttrak85 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:55 pm

Marlow wrote:I don't think she's peaked in the 400 yet. Do I get a vote for that? :D


She def can drop her times a bit. However it seems like she will likely not be attempting the 400 in Rio based off of recent statements. She said she will be running "the 200 and something else" in Rio meaning that the 200 is still her main focus and with that being the 400 is going to always be a detriment, especially for someone who will be 30 with serious competition(Duncan, SAFP, Brown,etc). It would be great if she could mix it up with the quarter milers tho in 2014 and 2015 because the event is loaded with talent right now both with vets and up and comers.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby jamboy » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:40 pm

It is very apparent that Allyson is on the decline.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby ATK » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:06 pm

jamboy wrote:It is very apparent that Allyson is on the decline.

:?

explain please...
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby bignate88 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:03 am

ATK wrote:
jamboy wrote:It is very apparent that Allyson is on the decline.

:?

explain please...

Simple: Allyson Felix isn't Jamaican. Yet VCB who is 3 years Felix's senior will be back to her winning ways next year. Can you say "bad mind"? lmao!

In any event, a few weeks ago, T&FN posted one of Brooks Johnson's blogs. It mentions Kersee "seriously thinking about having Felix prepare to get the American record in the 400m"
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby jamboy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:41 am

bignate88 wrote:
ATK wrote:
jamboy wrote:It is very apparent that Allyson is on the decline.

:?

explain please...

Simple: Allyson Felix isn't Jamaican. Yet VCB who is 3 years Felix's senior will be back to her winning ways next year. Can you say "bad mind"? lmao!

In any event, a few weeks ago, T&FN posted one of Brooks Johnson's blogs. It mentions Kersee "seriously thinking about having Felix prepare to get the American record in the 400m"


It ain't gonna happen
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby fourjz » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:44 pm

jamboy wrote:
bignate88 wrote:
ATK wrote:
jamboy wrote:It is very apparent that Allyson is on the decline.

:?

explain please...

Simple: Allyson Felix isn't Jamaican. Yet VCB who is 3 years Felix's senior will be back to her winning ways next year. Can you say "bad mind"? lmao!

In any event, a few weeks ago, T&FN posted one of Brooks Johnson's blogs. It mentions Kersee "seriously thinking about having Felix prepare to get the American record in the 400m"


It ain't gonna happen


Why ? 8-)
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby bignate88 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:17 pm

jamboy wrote:
bignate88 wrote:
ATK wrote:
jamboy wrote:It is very apparent that Allyson is on the decline.

:?

explain please...

Simple: Allyson Felix isn't Jamaican. Yet VCB who is 3 years Felix's senior will be back to her winning ways next year. Can you say "bad mind"? lmao!

In any event, a few weeks ago, T&FN posted one of Brooks Johnson's blogs. It mentions Kersee "seriously thinking about having Felix prepare to get the American record in the 400m"


It ain't gonna happen

Oh, the same way you claimed Ahoure wouldn't factor much in the 2013 outdoor season.
Last edited by bignate88 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Goatek » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:13 pm

What is that sophomoric term some trolls use when they don't agree... oh yeah... "haters gotta hate"...
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby ATK » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:51 pm

I actually am more on the side of Felix not getting the 400m american record. I always say it, but I feel that her 400m potential is a little exxaguratted.

And I think the likely hood of getting the American record is just as good as SRR lowering it.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby jamboy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:53 pm

ATK wrote:I actually am more on the side of Felix not getting the 400m american record. I always say it, but I feel that her 400m potential is a little exxaguratted.

And I think the likely hood of getting the American record is just as good as SRR lowering it.



Yea, neither will happen.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby bignate88 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:55 pm

If in fact Allyson is looking to tackle that 400m AR, she definitely has her work cut out for her. I'd be happy if she were clocking 49s all day, giving TBO and Montsho a run for their money. but It would be nice to see someone not named SRR run sub 49. (Heck it would be nice to see SRR herself run sub 49 again!)

But as GH pointed out, she's still only 27, and can still rack up more individual gold
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:24 pm

She has not been able to post great open 400 times, although she won most all of her races and lost a big one by a very small margin. If she really concentrates on the 400, maybe she can capture what was in those 48-low relay legs. I do not think that she will, but to think that it is not really possible is taking a pretty hard line.

And a funny thing is, Alison is one of the (very) few top American 4x400 runners that did not go through the school 4x400s to help develop her racing the event.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby Speedster » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:28 am

What does Allyson want to be famous for? Double 200m Olympic Gold or a Olympic 200m/400m Champ at successive games? She was pretty clear on winning in London as a major goal after missing twice and that she'd continue until Rio at least, but where does she want to focus?

I have been underwhelmed by her 400m performances as her 200m speed and relay legs have shown more promise, though running from blocks is obviously a very different thing.

One thing I believe is that the more 400s she runs the better she will get at them. Compared to SSR, Montsho and TBO, she would have raced a fraction of times over the distance throughout her career.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby TrackFan4Ever » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:39 am

ATK wrote:I actually am more on the side of Felix not getting the 400m american record. I always say it, but I feel that her 400m potential is a little exxaguratted.

And I think the likely hood of getting the American record is just as good as SRR lowering it.


I think Kersee would know more about her 400m potential than you. His major obstacle in getting Felix to go after the AR is selling her on running the open 400, which she has stated she detests. The only time she likes the 400 is when she runs the 4x400 relay. Interpret her relay splits any way that you want, but I am inclined to think that her coach since 2005 might know a little more than you in this area. :wink:
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby fasttrak85 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:42 am

While I believe lowering the American record in the 400 will be a herculean task it is within Allysons ability. How can you disregard consistent 48 flat/48 low relays that are even faster than Sanya's who is the American record holder? I think with Allyson it is more about tactics than ability. She needs to be aggressive in the early parts of the race as if she is chasing someone who has a lead. Funny enough in her Doha race with Monthso this year she went out hard but she wasnt in 400 shape. If everything comes together we will be surprised. There is no way Ohurugup and Montsho are worth more in terms of times than Felix no way.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby notlef70 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:08 pm

TrackFan4Ever wrote:
ATK wrote:I actually am more on the side of Felix not getting the 400m american record. I always say it, but I feel that her 400m potential is a little exxaguratted.

And I think the likely hood of getting the American record is just as good as SRR lowering it.


I think Kersee would know more about her 400m potential than you. His major obstacle in getting Felix to go after the AR is selling her on running the open 400, which she has stated she detests. The only time she likes the 400 is when she runs the 4x400 relay. Interpret her relay splits any way that you want, but I am inclined to think that her coach since 2005 might know a little more than you in this area. :wink:


I concur... Her coach would know more about her potential than any of us would....
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby bushop » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:06 pm

notlef70 wrote:
TrackFan4Ever wrote:I think Kersee would know more about her 400m potential than you.:wink:
I concur... Her coach would know more about her potential than any of us would....

If the only posts allowed on here were from the most knowledgeable on each subject we wouldn't have much of a discussion.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby ATK » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:41 pm

bushop wrote:
notlef70 wrote:
TrackFan4Ever wrote:I think Kersee would know more about her 400m potential than you.:wink:
I concur... Her coach would know more about her potential than any of us would....

If the only posts allowed on here were from the most knowledgeable on each subject we wouldn't have much of a discussion.

I meant it more so towards the argument many make saying her relay spits indicate she "should" be running 48.xx regularly and have smashed the AR.

Her relay legs are relay legs. And regarding 26's comment, I don't think it is impossible for her to get the AR, It is possible, but I personally have not seen any serious indication that she can run 48.6, or any indication that SRR wont run faster if Felix were so break the AR.

Hope that makes sense.
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby ATK » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:46 pm

fasttrak85 wrote:While I believe lowering the American record in the 400 will be a herculean task it is within Allysons ability. How can you disregard consistent 48 flat/48 low relays that are even faster than Sanya's who is the American record holder?

But vice versa, how can you disregard SRR's American record (an multiple sub 48's) that is much faster that Felix's PR who has run consistent 48 flat/48 low relays?
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Re: What does the future hold for Allyson Felix?

Postby bushop » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:22 pm

ATK wrote:I meant it more so towards the argument many make saying her relay spits indicate she "should" be running 48.xx regularly and have smashed the AR.

Makes sense.
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