¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR


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¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby LopenUupunut » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:22 am

Kiprop 3:27.72
Farah 3:28.81
Ndiku 3:29.50 :shock:
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby jeremyp » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:25 am

I thought the pace was crazy but Kiprop kept going! Great race and it wasn't even a MR. Farah unbelievable?
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby kuha » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:25 am

Is this 1999, or did they borrow the Rieti track?

:D
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby tandfman » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:26 am

That was VERY impressive. I can't see anyone touching Kiprop in Moscow.

OTOH, Manzano was disappointing. Any story there?
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby croflash » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:27 am

I thought for a second Kiprop was going for the WR... incredible race.

Steve Cram sounded devastated.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby tm71 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:28 am

tandfman wrote:That was VERY impressive. I can't see anyone touching Kiprop in Moscow.

OTOH, Manzano was disappointing. Any story there?


it will be a different race there because it is definitely not going to be a sub 330 without a rabbit, maybe 333-335 range
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby lonewolf » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:29 am

Is there a link for Monaco?
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby oldtrackguy » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:29 am

Farah needs to do an all out 5000m and take a WR shot.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby LopenUupunut » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:32 am

tandfman wrote:That was VERY impressive. I can't see anyone touching Kiprop in Moscow.
Especially with Makhloufi out. Slower races are a different bucket of crabs, mind...

Full results:

1 KIPROP Asbel KEN 30 JUN 1989 1-13 3:27.72 WL
2 FARAH Mo GBR 23 MAR 1983 1-11 3:28.81 AR
3 NDIKU Caleb Mwangangi KEN 9 OCT 1992 1-1 3:29.50 PB
4 BIRGEN Bethwell KEN 6 AUG 1988 1-3 3:30.77 PB
5 ÖZBILEN Ilham Tanui TUR 5 MAR 1990 1-9 3:31.30 PB
6 CHEBOI Collins KEN 25 SEP 1987 1-2 3:31.53 PB
7 TAHRI Bouabdellah FRA 20 DEC 1978 1-8 3:32.73 PB
8 CENTROWITZ Matthew USA 18 OCT 1989 1-4 3:33.58 SB
9 CARVALHO Florian FRA 9 MAR 1989 1-12 3:33.59
10 SYMMONDS Nick USA 30 DEC 1983 1-7 3:34.55 PB
11 DENISSEL Simon FRA 22 MAY 1990 1-6 3:37.73
12 DRIOUCH Hamza QAT 16 NOV 1994 1-5 3:39.13 SB
13 MANZANO Leonel USA 12 SEP 1984 1-10 3:44.59
    MAGUT James Kiplagat (PM) KEN 20 JUL 1990 1-14 DNF
    ROTICH Andrew Kiptoo (PM) KEN 1987 1-15 DNF
Last edited by LopenUupunut on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby jeremyp » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:33 am

tandfman wrote:That was VERY impressive. I can't see anyone touching Kiprop in Moscow.

OTOH, Manzano was disappointing. Any story there?

This is par for the course with him. Up and down. Good when he absolutely needs to be.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby tgs3 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:33 am

Farah moves up to #5 on the all time 1500m list. He's "only" #30 on the 5000m list.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby jeremyp » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:34 am

lonewolf wrote:Is there a link for Monaco?

http://www.bestsportgo.tv/20130718/vv-6 ... 61618.html
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby proofs in the pudd'in » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:26 am

LopenUupunut wrote:
tandfman wrote:That was VERY impressive. I can't see anyone touching Kiprop in Moscow.
Especially with Makhloufi out. Slower races are a different bucket of crabs, mind...

Full results:

1 KIPROP Asbel KEN 30 JUN 1989 1-13 3:27.72 WL
2 FARAH Mo GBR 23 MAR 1983 1-11 3:28.81 AR
3 NDIKU Caleb Mwangangi KEN 9 OCT 1992 1-1 3:29.50 PB
4 BIRGEN Bethwell KEN 6 AUG 1988 1-3 3:30.77 PB
5 ÖZBILEN Ilham Tanui TUR 5 MAR 1990 1-9 3:31.30 PB
6 CHEBOI Collins KEN 25 SEP 1987 1-2 3:31.53 PB
7 TAHRI Bouabdellah FRA 20 DEC 1978 1-8 3:32.73 PB
8 CENTROWITZ Matthew USA 18 OCT 1989 1-4 3:33.58 SB
9 CARVALHO Florian FRA 9 MAR 1989 1-12 3:33.59
10 SYMMONDS Nick USA 30 DEC 1983 1-7 3:34.55 PB
11 DENISSEL Simon FRA 22 MAY 1990 1-6 3:37.73
12 DRIOUCH Hamza QAT 16 NOV 1994 1-5 3:39.13 SB
13 MANZANO Leonel USA 12 SEP 1984 1-10 3:44.59
    MAGUT James Kiplagat (PM) KEN 20 JUL 1990 1-14 DNF
    ROTICH Andrew Kiptoo (PM) KEN 1987 1-15 DNF


Looky there - good ole Nick runs a PB - and not a bad one at that :)
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby Marlow » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:27 am

kuha wrote:Is this 1999, or did they borrow the Rieti track?
:D

Niiiiice! :wink:
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby Tuariki » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:35 am

tgs3 wrote:Farah moves up to #5 on the all time 1500m list. He's "only" #30 on the 5000m list.

I guess Farah is in pretty reasonable shape for doing well in Moscow
Last edited by Tuariki on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby Samurai_Runner » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:55 am

Tuariki wrote:
tgs3 wrote:Farah moves up to #5 on the all time 1500m list. He's "only" #30 on the 5000m list.

I guess Farah is in pretty reasonable for doing well in Moscow

Yeah, maybe he should go for the trifecta - 15, 5, 10.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby Tuariki » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:04 pm

Samurai_Runner wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
tgs3 wrote:Farah moves up to #5 on the all time 1500m list. He's "only" #30 on the 5000m list.

I guess Farah is in pretty reasonable for doing well in Moscow

Yeah, maybe he should go for the trifecta - 15, 5, 10.

Having stepped down in distance he has shown he is getting better in terms of the all time list. Maybe he should try for the 800m :wink:
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby athleticshushmail » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:08 pm

lonewolf wrote:Is there a link for Monaco?

if you meant just this race...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65L2pQOekRA
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Re: ¶Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81

Postby lionelp1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:18 pm

A great race and a 4/5th best performer by Kiprop. Outstanding by Mo.
The WC is an entirely different bag of tricks and tonight is no pointer whatsoever as we found last year. Three races, lots of pushing, the odd fall, and tactics, tactics and nothing but being there in the right place at the right time.
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Re: ¶Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81

Postby Master Po » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:24 pm

Kiprop's 3:27.72 is the fastest 1500 of the post-El G era. He (and now Farah) is the only athlete to run sub 3:29 since El G was piling up times like that year after year. That string of PBs behind Kiprop looks a lot like a lot of athletes' PBs that were achieved during the El G era -- by chasing El G around the track. Most of those athletes never approached those performances apart from chasing El G. Chasing a superior athlete does help. The 800m provides a parallel set of data on this, with the "Kipketer effect" and the "Rudisha effect."

I am as surprised by Kiprop's aggressive and excellent running as I am by anything in this list of results. No question of his talents; but I didn't think he would be pushing for times this fast. Though he is a long way from 3:26.00, this might persuade some meet promoter(s) to try to set up races that encourage Kiprop to make such attempts at sub-3:27.

As for Farah (and some of the others behind him), it was really hard for me to know what to expect in this event, as he rarely races it, and his 1500s (or miles, occasionally) have even more rarely been in settings where a quality time might be chased. In 2012, he ran 4 at this distance: two indoors, 2 outdoors. One of the outdoor attempts was merely a heat at the UK championships, so the only "fast" one was Oxy, in May in which he ran 3:34. He ran none at this distance in 2011 or 2010. Monaco 2009 was his PB. So, is he a better athlete now than he was in 2009? His 5k & 10k progressions say definitely yes. Am I surprised by this 3:28.81? Yes & no. On the one hand, I kind of assumed he wasn't that fast. But I didn't know, and my only "evidence" was really the "non-evidence" of his sparse 1500m career, which over the last 3+ seasons (2010 til now) had just the 2012 Oxy race as his only quality outdoor 1500. On the other hand, he's developed a lot since 2009, and so I should expect him to be faster. And if you put him in a really fast 1500, in ideal circumstances, with nothing at stake other than chasing someone faster, then it's not too surprising that he might really put a great time up there. At least it is not too surprising to me.

By the same token, further down the list is Nick Symmonds, who I didn't really think had a 3:34 in him. He's about the same age as Farah, and has been racing 800s year in and year out, but we have little evidence of what he can do at 1500. Now, at least in these ideal circumstances we have a better idea.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby lonewolf » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:27 pm

jeremyp wrote:
lonewolf wrote:Is there a link for Monaco?

http://www.bestsportgo.tv/20130718/vv-6 ... 61618.html

Thanks for the link, jeremy.
Although I was never able to overcome the persistent demands to install another download system, subscribe to something, bet on somebody or order a Russian bride, during brief glimpses of the action, I noted http://www.stopsport.com on the screen and was finally able to access the meet...now I just have to learn French, Spanish or whatever the announcers were speaking. :) ,
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:37 pm

Farah had to benefit of running a very brisk but more even pace, moving up in the mid-race when the pace slowed so. It looked like Centrowitz could have gone a good second faster in the finish but it would not matter -- he still got a 3:33SB.

This seems a bit like a shot across the bow to Kiprop's competitors; even if he has to run the last 600 on his own he can hit a very fast time. As for Farah, he had a 1:48 800 a decade ago on the Eton track (not world-class track?) and so this is a bit less surprising. In his Oxy race I think [could remember wrong] he hung back for a long time and then easily won the race, so a 3:34 in May that could have been a 3:32 makes this less surprising.
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby aaronk » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:41 pm

Someone on Twitter mused that Farah can get the WR in the 3000!
After this run, I agree!!
(Or at the very least a European record!!)
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby lapsus » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:47 pm

aaronk wrote:Someone on Twitter mused that Farah can get the WR in the 3000!
After this run, I agree!!
(Or at the very least a European record!!)

Sure - all it would take is running 7.5 laps @ 58.7 seconds a lap.
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby LopenUupunut » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:50 pm

aaronk wrote:Someone on Twitter mused that Farah can get the WR in the 3000!
After this run, I agree!!
(Or at the very least a European record!!)
Nobody touches 7:20.67. It would be interesting to see him try for a WR at 2 miles, though; I'm not convinced he's capable of that either, but at least it would be refreshing :)
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:54 pm

aaronk wrote:Someone on Twitter mused that Farah can get the WR in the 3000!
After this run, I agree!!
(Or at the very least a European record!!)


Neither Geb nor Bekele had very close runs at that 7:20. I suppose that next year would be the time for those experiments (although there are the Commonwealth Games, right?).
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby gh » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:56 pm

Farah joins Paavo Nurmi & Sándor Iharos as only men to hold Euro Records in both 1500 & 10K at same time. Theirs were slightly better, also being WRs.
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby Master Po » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:58 pm

lapsus wrote:
aaronk wrote:Someone on Twitter mused that Farah can get the WR in the 3000!
After this run, I agree!!
(Or at the very least a European record!!)

Sure - all it would take is running 7.5 laps @ 58.7 seconds a lap.


Indeed! I think the only reason Komen's record endures is that it hasn't occurred to anyone to just -- you know -- go out and run those splits. :wink:

But I would like to see a real attempt at the mid- to low-7:20s. Bekele's 7:25 in 2007 (?) seems like ages ago. Also, Alamirew, Soi, & E. Kipchoge ran 7:27ish a couple of years ago. It's a great distance that can bring together a range of competitors. Farah probably could run a fast one. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Kiprop could, too (he was WJXC champion a few years ago). Perhaps Farah could return the favor done him here in Monaco, by going for a super-fast 3k with Kiprop chasing him. :)
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby andyjgt » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:05 pm

If Ozbilen set a PB, surely he sat a NR too?

Amazing that Mo is now faster than Cram, Coe, Ovett and even Elliott.

Pleased to see Centro get the A, enjoyed watching him in Daegu.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:13 pm

tandfman wrote:That was VERY impressive. I can't see anyone touching Kiprop in Moscow.

OTOH, Manzano was disappointing. Any story there?


Can you see anyone touching Farah in the 5000? Of course, he will have 10,000F, 5000h, 5000F. I wonder if there will be a strategy to run the 10,000 very hard to make it harder for him to double back.

On Manzano, I suspect that the pace was so fast that he was so far back charging up would not have made much different, so he just ran (mailed) it in.

I must say that this was a stunner, although only one of several [but the biggest]. As for Kiprop, anyone who saw what seemed to be an 11-flat speed finish when he had languished back about 7th several weeks back has to wonder how they can run him hard and still out-sprint him.
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby aaronk » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:58 pm

LopenUupunut wrote:
aaronk wrote:Someone on Twitter mused that Farah can get the WR in the 3000!
After this run, I agree!!
(Or at the very least a European record!!)
Nobody touches 7:20.67. It would be interesting to see him try for a WR at 2 miles, though; I'm not convinced he's capable of that either, but at least it would be refreshing :)


BTW, it was Tim Hutchings who did the "musing" on Twitter about Farah going for the 3K WR!!
Not exactly a "know nothing" guy!! :)
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby Alan Shank » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:24 pm

I had Kiprop:
39.5
1:36.3 (56.8)
2:32.4 (56.1)
3:27.8 (55.4)

Kiprop is now 4th performer with 14th performance on ATL. Farah is 6th performer, 25th performance. Farah is in amazing shape!

Tahri got a PB; it was his European record Mekhissi-Benabad broke, right?
Top 7 plus Symmonds got PBs.

For some perspective, El Guerrouj had nine times faster than Kiprop's. We may wait a long time for another like him.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby bruce3404 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:10 pm

jeremyp wrote:
tandfman wrote:That was VERY impressive. I can't see anyone touching Kiprop in Moscow.

OTOH, Manzano was disappointing. Any story there?

This is par for the course with him. Up and down. Good when he absolutely needs to be.


Except in Daegu. Actually, he's been a lot more consistent the past two years, but we still occasionally get a glimpse of the bad Leo.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:15 pm

Tuariki wrote:
tgs3 wrote:Farah moves up to #5 on the all time 1500m list. He's "only" #30 on the 5000m list.

I guess Farah is in pretty reasonable shape for doing well in Moscow


His coach has no idea what he's doing.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby nicest person ever » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:16 pm

Tuariki wrote:
Samurai_Runner wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
tgs3 wrote:Farah moves up to #5 on the all time 1500m list. He's "only" #30 on the 5000m list.

I guess Farah is in pretty reasonable for doing well in Moscow

Yeah, maybe he should go for the trifecta - 15, 5, 10.

Having stepped down in distance he has shown he is getting better in terms of the all time list. Maybe he should try for the 800m :wink:


Aww fuck it, let's just cut straight to the chase and put him in the 100 dash where we all know he ultimately belongs. I see a 9.4 in this dude easy. Maybe 9.3 with the right conditions.

:lol:

In all seriousness though, Farah definitely should try to take a real shot at the 5k timeclock this season at some point or another. Get some decent rabbits and everything set up and see what he can do. Really have no idea just how fast he could go if all the conditions are just right, but one thing is for sure, it would be pretty fucking fast...

Getting goosebumps just thinking about it. :shock:
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby pickle47 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:32 pm

Doing our best to make this an R rated board...
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby mump boy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:42 am

nicest person ever wrote:
Aww fuck it, let's just cut straight to the chase and put him in the 100 dash where we all know he ultimately belongs. I see a 9.4 in this dude easy. Maybe 9.3 with the right conditions.

:lol:



Maybe not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMIwlQB-28
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby effable » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:59 am

Still in awe of this race. I wonder: is it really posible to run one of the a-t fatest 1500s in your first attempt in five years, and not feel drawn to find out how good you could be in the event?
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Re: ¶Monaco DL: m1500—Kiprop WL 3:27.72, Farah 3:28.81 NR

Postby nicest person ever » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:27 am

effable wrote:Still in awe of this race. I wonder: is it really posible to run one of the a-t fatest 1500s in your first attempt in five years, and not feel drawn to find out how good you could be in the event?


Given that he randomly ran THAT fast, in this random 1500, his first real 1500 attempt in many years, in an event he doesn't even specifically train for, I agree this indicates that he is probably capable of close to a world record (or maybe even breaking it) if he gave this event some serious attention.

That said, I don't think it would necessarily be optimal for him to just straight up switch to being a 1500 guy. As absurd as this result was for him, I think it probably means that in his next fast-pace 5k race he'll end up even higher on that all-time list than he just did on the 1500 list. And if he managed to get a world record in the 5k, that would probably be considered an even stronger/sicker world record to him than getting the 1500 record, by comparison (given how strong Bekele's 5k and 10k records are, or at least were considered to be at the time they were set). Not to mention, in the 5k, Farah is pretty much considered the dominant, #1 dude right now, whereas in the 1500 he'd still have Kiprop in his way, who he might or might not be able to surpass, regardless of whether he gave the 1500 his full attention or not. So medals-wise there is also probably more motivation for him in the longer distances than the 1500 still.

That said, I do think that when you run THAT damned fast, in your first random 1500 run in multiple years, like that, you have at least some responsibility to yourself, and the sanctity of the universe (lol, okay that's not a real thing, but I'm reaching here, lolz), to increase the amount of training/attention you give to the event to at least SOME (even if minor) extent. Like, don't just go back to flat out ignoring it. At the very least, wait till after Moscow, so you don't have to worry about screwing up your 5k training by getting distracted with the 1500, and then AFTER winning your 5k Gold in Moscow, maybe instead of finishing the season running a mix of 5k's and 10k's like usual, instead, finish out the season by running a mixture of 1500's and 5k's this time (and some 3k's too I guess), just to see whether you're better as a 1500/3k/5k type of guy than as a 5k/10k guy. Finding this out would be pretty useful, given that he's still not TOO old yet, so if he figures out that he's better skewing towards 5k-and-under rather than 5k-and-above, it could result in him setting more WR's and getting more gold's than he would've if he didn't take that initial forray into the shorter runs, during the latter part of this season, when its all said and done, as far as the remainder of his career goes.
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Re: Monaco (Herculis) m1500 (Kiprop 3:27.72; Farah 3:28.81 A

Postby jeremyp » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:36 am

lonewolf wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
lonewolf wrote:Is there a link for Monaco?

http://www.bestsportgo.tv/20130718/vv-6 ... 61618.html

Thanks for the link, jeremy.
Although I was never able to overcome the persistent demands to install another download system, subscribe to something, bet on somebody or order a Russian bride, during brief glimpses of the action, I noted http://www.stopsport.com on the screen and was finally able to access the meet...now I just have to learn French, Spanish or whatever the announcers were speaking. :) ,

Yes it's a difficult site for old guys. I had to reboot countless times and this morning my Malware had 15+ red sites to erase. The good thing about watching Track is the language helps but doesn't make it incomprehensible. We all know most of the athletes pretty well. Can someone (younger) tell us why this site worked so well before but now seems difficult, and is there a way around to guarantee getting the English version
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