Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!


Main message board: for the discussion of topical track & field items only.

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby batonless relay » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:03 am

user4 wrote:
batonless relay wrote:Of course, but it also raises the premium on athletic ability. Speed is a function of the ability to produce force -so is jumping- as you know, the same athletes will just be required to make the adjustments. But, it will eliminate lesser athletes from consideration altogether. Rod Woodson, Ladji Doucure and Ryan Braithwaite were crappy technical hurdlers over 42", but they were either NCAA or WC champions because they were fast - and the mens highs are NOT considered low by anybody (except Stefan Holm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZ3ZcorTF0).


was Ladji Doucure and Ryan Braithwaite really crappy over the hurdles ? .. I didnt think so... were they really fast ? ... I didnt know that.

No one gets to a 110final on speed alone and no one gets there without hurdling proficiency ...

My own sense is that, though the womens hurdles may be too low they certainly still require great hurdling proficiency to succeed.

It seems fundamental to the health of the sport that the hurdle events should test something other than flat speed. I think they do that now quite well. Could the women's event be improved in this regard with higher hurdles? That is a good question.

good point; crappy is relative. But, that might also be said about w100h. Some of the athletes being described as needing more technical proficiency are not that bad or different from their counterparts (be they NACAC or EAA). The Lundquist, Rollins and Pearsons are few and far between.

To answer your question: the women's hurdles can be improved and I think it can be done by raising the hurdles 3".
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby batonless relay » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:14 am

DJG wrote:I do not want to start another pissing contest between us, but giving what you' be just posted, how is what Pearson said "utter and complete horseshit"? Regardless of the motives and carnards
you attribute to European coaches, and I have absolutely no insights into what they think, if they favor raising the height also, even if they are mistaken that it will help their athletes, why should that matter to the question of making the hurldle events place more on hurdling ability?

Pearson's view is the prevailing view of non-NACAC coaches/athletes; this is a raging debate within the Technical and coaching committees of the IAAF and the EAA's view (and others) is that you would see fewer NACAC athletes if the hurdles were raised. Also if you reread what you just wrote you realize that I didn't say the VIEW of raising the hurdles was horseshit (something I've re-affirmed in the previous posts), just that the view that it would eliminate the "sprinters" is horseshit. A narrow view when you consider that she's the FASTEST current hurdler slated for Moscow.

DJG wrote:As for eliminating lesser athletes from consideration altogether, I have no answer for you, I' m just a dummy who has always thought that that is what competiton does.
The fact that poor technical hurdlers sometimes win big events doesn't bother me in the least, particularly on the men's side. They were good enough, and that's good enough for me, no style points in T&F.
As Smoke said above this is nothing new, and I doubt anything new will come about this question.
But it was fun to discuss this with the posters here.

The lesser athletes are being eliminated now (at 33"); and I never implied that technical aesthetics were necessary for elite performances; I said that "sprinters" are still going to reign (addressing Pearson's comments that it would eliminate sprinters. It won't, it will do the opposite).
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Smoke » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:48 am

batonless I am not following you. It is widely recognized that European hurdlers are superior technically. The argument is not a NACAC one, it is a technical one. Now some may thinkwhat you say but raising these hurdles for women would make it more competitive because the hurdles are the great equalizers. Take the men's race, TT was by far the fastest on the track, but due to those 10 barriers, he could not win based merely on his speed. Conversely, Gail, for all her greatness was able to out gun her competition. Lolo at her height was faster than her competition. Sally the last 2 years has been faster than her competition. Having seen Brianna this year, I would guess she is too.
All I am saying is give us those 3 inches, and lets see. Some argue about the elimination of shorter women, well hell, that is what we are in the business of. I do not see any tears for the 5'9" high schooler that could not run the 110s in college.
The frustration is this is not a difficult call. Just do it. We will immediately adjust. Happily. The record books would adjust, the same as they did for yards to meters. It is not a big deal. I knwo one adjustment, we will have to teach women how to tuck and roll! :lol:
Smoke
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby DJG » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:01 am

batonless relay wrote:
DJG wrote:I do not want to start another pissing contest between us, but giving what you' be just posted, how is what Pearson said "utter and complete horseshit"? Regardless of the motives and carnards
you attribute to European coaches, and I have absolutely no insights into what they think, if they favor raising the height also, even if they are mistaken that it will help their athletes, why should that matter to the question of making the hurldle events place more on hurdling ability?

Pearson's view is the prevailing view of non-NACAC coaches/athletes; this is a raging debate within the Technical and coaching committees of the IAAF and the EAA's view (and others) is that you would see fewer NACAC athletes if the hurdles were raised. Also if you reread what you just wrote you realize that I didn't say the VIEW of raising the hurdles was horseshit (something I've re-affirmed in the previous posts), just that the view that it would eliminate the "sprinters" is horseshit. A narrow view when you consider that she's the FASTEST current hurdler slated for Moscow.

DJG wrote:As for eliminating lesser athletes from consideration altogether, I have no answer for you, I' m just a dummy who has always thought that that is what competiton does.
The fact that poor technical hurdlers sometimes win big events doesn't bother me in the least, particularly on the men's side. They were good enough, and that's good enough for me, no style points in T&F.
As Smoke said above this is nothing new, and I doubt anything new will come about this question.
But it was fun to discuss this with the posters here.

The lesser athletes are being eliminated now (at 33"); and I never implied that technical aesthetics were necessary for elite performances; I said that "sprinters" are still going to reign (addressing Pearson's comments that it would eliminate sprinters. It won't, it will do the opposite).


You are correct that the 'sprinters', at least the good ones, will not suddenly decide to give up the hurdles if the height is raised. As for the debate at the IAAF committee, they should be careful about what they wish for, because raising the women's height for the hurdles will not favor any group of athletes, except the one that hurdles well and runs fast. But , I confess, I have a hard time distinguishing the 'sprinters' from the 'hurdlers' in the short sprint/hurdle events. My preference is someone who can do both well. If the Europeans think this is the way to help their athletes get on the podium, they are in for a rude awakening.
I won't be holding my breathe waiting for the IAAF to decide anything on this topic.
DJG
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:33 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby batonless relay » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:21 am

Smoke wrote:batonless I am not following you. It is widely recognized that European hurdlers are superior technically.

That was years ago. NACAC hurdle coaching has closed that gap. Watch the following races and aside from the HD quality there is not much difference between the European technique and the NACAC ones. Note: speed wins the Euro race
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XURfcCy6rQo - EC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTWQhbawm4Y - NCAA

Smoke wrote:The argument is not a NACAC one, it is a technical one. Now some may thinkwhat you say but raising these hurdles for women would make it more competitive because the hurdles are the great equalizers.

I seriously doubt that. Speed is the best equalizer; more so than technique. Raising the hurdles only make it harder to negotiate with lazy trail knees, but the added 3" will be benefit because the better athletes (faster) will still be moving faster.

Smoke wrote:Take the men's race, TT was by far the fastest on the track...It is not a big deal. I knwo one adjustment, we will have to teach women how to tuck and roll! :lol:

Again, re-read my posts from the beginning and you will see that I'm not against raising the hurdles and I also agree that it will require more technical proficiency AND possibly be a better race. But the adjustments in NACAC will be made. The problem I have is the belief that "sprinters" will not be able to compete. I think that's horseshit. It's as if the belief is that the adjustments CAN'T be made.

What Europe needs to do is stop trying to figure out ways to be competitive and get back to the job of talent identification and development; what they should be doing is finding 11.3/4 girls who can run hurdles; maybe they need to begin with the below list.

11.20+ 0.2 Anyika Onuora  GBR
11.20 -0.2 Asha Philip  GBR
11.22 1.3 Tatjana Pinto  GER
11.23 2.0 Viktoriya Yarushkina  RUS
11.26 1.0 Stella Akakpo  FRA
11.27 1.1 Nataliya Pohrebnyak  UKR
11.28 0.9 Katsiaryna Hanchar  BLR
11.29 -0.2 Yekaterina Kuzina  RUS
11.30 1.2 Ezinne Okparaebo  NOR
11.30 1.3 Myriam Soumaré  FRA
11.31 0.5 Lina Grinčikaitė  LTU
11.31 1.8 Hayley Jones  GBR
11.31 0.9 Céline Distel-Bonnet  FRA
11.32+ 0.2 Jodie Williams  GBR
11.33 1.1 Hrystyna Stuy  UKR
11.34 -0.2 Yuliya Kashina  RUS
11.34 1.5 Kateřina Čechová  CZE
11.34 1.3 Ayodelé Ikuesan  FRA
11.35 NJR 1.7 Iréne Ekelund  SWE
11.35 -0.2 Yuliya Katsura  RUS
11.36 1.3 Hanna-Maari Latvala  FIN
11.36 1.8 Annabelle Lewis  GBR
11.37 0.7 Andreea Ogrăzeanu  ROU
11.38 -0.3 Dina Asher-Smith  GBR
11.39 0.7 Inna Weit  GER
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby dustoff » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:02 am

The event would likely have more tall athletes and do away with a lot of the girls under 5'7". I don't know if that is necessarily a good thing.

The worst technicians right now are still fairly highly penalized in part because of the speed of the race. I'm willing to bet someone like Jones would have performed better if she was forced to clear higher hurdles over the course of her career and had a slightly slower race. IIRC in Iowa, they have an even shorter hurdle height for some of the high school and age group girls. I think those flaws come out more i the short hurdles since the overall race is much faster.

3" higher (at all levels) and people will focus more on technique and there might be less variance. When is the last time favorite had a fall or huge hit in a major final? The closest I can think of is some jostling between Robles/Liu. Seems to happen with some regularity in the women's hurdles between nationals and majors champs. I could be speaking out of my ass though.
dustoff
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:58 pm

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby lonewolf » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:22 am

I do not know the technical niceities of hurdling or what effect raising the height of women's hurdles would have on equalizing competiton. Obviously, there is no consensus on that.

From time to time, rules and specs are set for all competitors. Some endure, Some don't.
Javelinj specs were changed for safety reasons. The gurus discovered women can run farther than 880/800 without uterus prolapse.

Records accrue. With time they become"sacrosanct" That is not a problem for me.

My question is: Why tinker with the rules just to theoretically benefit a subset of women hurdlers? Why is there any obligation to make slow, technically proficient hurlers more competitive? The object is to traverse 100m over uniform height hurdles as quickly as you can.
Whether you accomplish that between the hurdles or over the hurdle is irrelevant.

For every action there is a counter-action. The fastest flat runners will still be the fastest. Taller fast runners may benefit..Shorter fast runners may be penalized.

Would anyone seriously propose scoring the HJ by distance cleared above the jumpers personal height? Or scoring LJ by distance moved per foot pound of the jumper?

I suspect Bryce Lamb would be WC. :)
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8814
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby user4 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:06 am

batonless relay wrote:...and I never implied that technical aesthetics were necessary for elite performances; I said that "sprinters" are still going to reign (addressing Pearson's comments that it would eliminate sprinters. It won't, it will do the opposite).


I think batonless is right, I seriously doubt that raising the hurdles is going to make raw speed a liability, or any less of an asset .. if anything it will do the opposite... nevertheless raising them will test a more refined skill set that is not as quickly trained into the competitor...so while the athleticism will still reign it will not come as it does now with one season of training. That may be a good thing.
user4
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby run4urlyfe » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:26 am

If Sally never gets her old form back I wonder if she will still wants the hurdles high?


I feel like the combination of running really fast and jumping is nerve racking enough in itself. There have been no shortage of women butchering hurdles at its current height.... you might as well be sprinting while having them pole vault over each barrier.
run4urlyfe
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:37 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:07 pm

user4 wrote:We could raise the mens hurdles too. Make it just a bit more of a leap / jump.


Put it at 1.90 and then Stephan Holm can be the new guy on the block.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16318
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby batonless relay » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:38 pm

In terms of hurdle priorities, my list would go as follows:

1. Raise Mens Junior hurdles back to 42"; this 39" shit is a travesty! Xiang Liu ran 13.12 as a Junior over 42" in Lasaunne...and Wayne C. Davis ran 13.08 with 2.0 wind in Trinidad over 39" (it doesn't even need a punchline)
2. Raise Boys Youth to 39". If they can't run over 39" by 17 y/o they're never gonna be a hurdler anyway.
3. Raise Women 100h to 36"*


*If there is a 6" reduction from mens highs to intermediates than it would make sense to leave the women 400h where they are at 30"
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Smoke » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:36 pm

I think I have you now batonless. You are slightly contradictory, but I follow you. Speed is not an equalizer, it is the divider. The hurdles are always the equalizer. Well they should be.

As for the height discrimination someone brought up. SO WHAT?! Are you crying for the 5'9" male hurdler? Yes it will eliminate some shorter hurdlers, newsflash, sports are discriminatory. That is the entire point. By the way, you will be surprised at how tall the women will NOT need to be to clear a 36" barrier. If fair is the word bouncing between your ears, respectfully, get over it. One winner, three medalists, that is what we do. That is why you watch. It is not a valid argument. It is in the same family of thought, that led to 80mh, the lack of 4h until 1984! And the lack of the marathon until 1984. These are world class athletes, how about we treat them as such, and not as little kids.
Does it make any sense that professional women are running the same hurdles as high school girls?! Think about that...

batonless I agree with all your hurdle adjustments. I am at a loss on these youth hurdle heights.
Smoke
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby skyin' brian » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:54 pm

Why stop there? The men's high hurdles fall over way too easily. Make them heavier (maybe even replace with steeple barriers!). That will reward technique.


all joking aside, the 100/110 hurdles may be the most contrived event in T&F due to the heights of the barriers and the spacing rewarding certain body types and stride lenghts. It attracts some darn good athletes though.
skyin' brian
 
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby justrunfast » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:17 am

You dont think the top female sprinters in the world don't do any training over 36" now? I can tell you for a fact they do and the men do the same over 45" its not as if changing the hurdle height would drastically change the event, apart from a few the same top females in the world would still challenge for the major honours.

On the mens side I have seen David Oliver and a few others go over full flights at 45" looked like a walk in the park for him :lol:
justrunfast
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:17 pm

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby user4 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:31 am

Another idea would be to bring back a new and improved furlong hurdle event. Higher hurdles, 45" for men 39" for women, 12 hurdles and with the spacing between hurdles differing through the race such that no one cadence between hurdles would work.
user4
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby gh » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:53 am

I say change the men's race to 9 barriers and shorten it to 100m, allowing for direct speed comparison w/ the flat guys.
gh
 
Posts: 46321
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Marlow » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:12 am

Of the four hurdle events, the 100H is the only one that doesn't match up with physical reality.
For men, 42" is a real test and so is 36" for a lap.Women's heights should be 36" and 30". Having the women's hurdles only 3" different doesn't pass the common sense test.
I am open to a height of 35", because that more closely matches the 'challenge' the men face, given hip heights and jumping abilities.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21081
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby user4 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:31 am

gh wrote:I say change the men's race to 9 barriers and shorten it to 100m, allowing for direct speed comparison w/ the flat guys.


dropping events seems like a self inflicted wound, kind of like saying to the public "we wasted a century of your time" ... Adding events gives the impression of growth and accommodation, like saying "we have something new for you". Maybe adding an outdoor 60m hurdle event with 48" barriers !
user4
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby mump boy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:32 am

cheetah69 wrote:I'm not surprised. A change that would benefit her.


because she's bothered to learn how to hurdle and not just rely on her admirable speed
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby mump boy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:35 am

batonless relay wrote:Utter and complete horseshit, Sally!...... "raise the hurdles" cry is a canard propagated mostly today by Europeans


Did you fail geography ?
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby mump boy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:51 am

Smoke wrote:This is not new news. 99% of all hurdlers and coaches have been crying for this change for decades. The women's hurdles heights are laughable.
The 4h women get away with technical murder, solely due to the LACK of proper hurdle technique required by the mini hurdles.


This kind of 'technique' suffices to be an all time great at the moment

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2011 ... aine11.jpg

http://letustalk.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =300&h=219

http://www.photorun.net/images_L/2011/T ... orld11.JPG

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Nata ... bnWaIl.jpg

I don't know what that is but it bears no relation to hurdling :?
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby user4 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:43 am

mump boy wrote:This kind of 'technique' suffices to be an all time great at the moment

http://letustalk.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =300&h=219

http://www.photorun.net/images_L/2011/T ... orld11.JPG

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Nata ... bnWaIl.jpg

I don't know what that is but it bears no relation to hurdling :?



Hilarious, I nearly coughed my kidney out my lungs laughing at those... Nevertheless, I strongly suspect that had the barriers been higher the order of the finish would not have changed !
user4
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby batonless relay » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:15 pm

mump boy wrote:
batonless relay wrote:Utter and complete horseshit, Sally!...... "raise the hurdles" cry is a canard propagated mostly today by Europeans


Did you fail geography ?

No. I'm actually quite good at it (capitals, locations), but if you don't recognize that though Australia isn't in Europe that it's more European than it's neighbors...then I don't know what to tell you. But, rather than weigh in 'negatively' on everything I might write, you should probably be working with your brother on how to get Asafa Powell to enthusiastically take a picture with you.

mump boy wrote:This kind of 'technique' suffices to be an all time great at the moment

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2011 ... aine11.jpg

http://letustalk.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =300&h=219

http://www.photorun.net/images_L/2011/T ... orld11.JPG

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Nata ... bnWaIl.jpg

I don't know what that is but it bears no relation to hurdling :?

It bears no relation to hurdling for someone who may have never done it, but that woman that you've ridiculed on many occasions has run 12.75...faster than anything that I've ever found for any other WC or Olympic 400h champion - but maybe I haven't looked hard enough. And, since you've made it your job to try to show the board where I'm wrong this is the perfect job for you. Anyway, I'm sure there are many "hurdlers" who would trade their "technical prowess" for Walker's hardware anyday.

Anyway, before you begin again on Walker for form that you deem not to be proper, maybe you should set your sights a bit closer to home http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/6 ... 897406.jpg . Personally, I think it's a fools errand to try to equate form with function and think that it will always effect performance, but hey, maybe that will be in the next edition of that insipid spikes magazine.
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Megas15 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:02 pm

Funny...I didn't hear saying so before she won the Olympic Gold. Me thinks she's heard of a girl named Brianna Rollins that gives her the ebe-jebes!
Megas15
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:43 am
Location: The Great North East

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Smoke » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:48 pm

batonless speed will always rule, it is the nature of what we do. That is not a valid retort. Raising the hurdles raises the technical requirement. So we do not SEE pictures from Melaine like that again. It should be noted that that picture is her non dominant leg. But is a great illustration of why the hurdles need to be higher. No technique needed at 30".
Smoke
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby 18.99s » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:01 am

mump boy wrote:This kind of 'technique' suffices to be an all time great at the moment

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2011 ... aine11.jpg

http://letustalk.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =300&h=219

http://www.photorun.net/images_L/2011/T ... orld11.JPG

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Nata ... bnWaIl.jpg

I don't know what that is but it bears no relation to hurdling :?


Haha. This 79-year-old lady almost looks better than that over the hurdles: http://www.wcax.com/story/22879163/vt-a ... ords-at-79
18.99s
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:28 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby batonless relay » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:09 pm

Smoke wrote:batonless speed will always rule, it is the nature of what we do. That is not a valid retort.

Actually, what you've written is not a valid retort. I never said that speed wouldn't rule; I said the opposite. I said that the sprinters are going to dominate. Speed wins.

Smoke wrote:Raising the hurdles raises the technical requirement. So we do not SEE pictures from Melaine like that again. It should be noted that that picture is her non dominant leg. But is a great illustration of why the hurdles need to be higher. No technique needed at 30".

The issue really isn't whether it's her non-dominant leg (though it's correct that you noted it), it's that fans who don't know a thing about the technical side of the sport look at aesthetics as if it's the end all and be all. Like the athlete who "looks" the best should win. This isn't fashion; it's sport. Every picture of Melaine is a picture in the home stretch where 90% of athletes who call themselves 400h fail the technical aestethics test; to pick on Melaine is downright personal.

Even if the hurdles were higher it's wouldn't have changed the outcome, imo. It MAY have forced her to hurdle "better", but look at the last picture of her and Antyuch and you see Antyuch with the lazy heel; Walker's heel is below her knee. The key to hurdling is not as much what you look like going over (though I'm not trying to say that it doesn't matter), but what position you're in when you land.
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Marlow » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:54 pm

batonless relay wrote:The key to hurdling is not as much what you look like going over (though I'm not trying to say that it doesn't matter), but what position you're in when you land.

Well, not even that; it's about expenditure of energy. Going high over the hurdle (as many 400Hers do over the last two) uses up lots of the quickly depleting energy reserves, so all things being equal, the better hurdler wins. But . . . as you are indeed pointing out, sometimes the poorer hurdler has lots more energy reserves than the good hurdler, so s/he wins anyway. In college I looked awesome over the last two hurdles and yet continued to lose due to an intrinsic limited reserve. I often passed poorer hurdlers over the 9th AND 10th hurdles, only to see them repass me as my rigor mortis set in . . .. That taught me everything I needed to know about sport: I trained the best and had the best technique but in the end run (awesome pun!!), that mattered very little. :?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21081
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby pickle47 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:54 pm

Anything that brings the women's and men's event more in line with one another is a good thing, as long as it doesn't denigrate the event. If women start throwing their jav 100m, bring it closer in weight and form to the men's. If women can handle 10 events, which I think they can, give them the decathlon. Hurdle heights are not sacred.
pickle47
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Another perfect day in So Cal

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Tuariki » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:45 pm

18.99s wrote:Haha. This 79-year-old lady almost looks better than that over the hurdles: http://www.wcax.com/story/22879163/vt-a ... ords-at-79

The 2 ladies were great. However, if you watch the hurdles training session at about 1 min 50 into the video you will see them training with the hurdles facing the wrong way which could cause a serious injury in a young athlete if the hurdle is hit. With a 79 year old, even though this lady is awesomely fit, it just needs a bad fall at that age to stuff up your body and health completely.
Tuariki
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: Rohe o Te Whanau a Apanui

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:25 am

Again, why in the world you change the event that is widely believed to be the most competitive in track and field and to be the event with the least ducking (by far?). May be the nature of the event is related to the technical specifications and changing them would alter the competitive make up.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16318
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby 18.99s » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:31 am

Tuariki wrote:The 2 ladies were great. However, if you watch the hurdles training session at about 1 min 50 into the video you will see them training with the hurdles facing the wrong way which could cause a serious injury in a young athlete if the hurdle is hit.

True, but those particular hurdles look so flimsy that they'd tip over easily even though they're facing the wrong way.
18.99s
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:28 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Marlow » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:42 am

26mi235 wrote:Maybe the nature of the event is related to the technical specifications and changing them would alter the competitive make up.

Isn't that the point? Trying to make the event more technical, like the men's? No one sees the 110H as just a speed event, but with the women, if you have even 'decent' form, the fastest sprinters have a huge advantage. Devers proved that. Her technique was OK, but nowhere near most of her opponents.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21081
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:01 am

Marlow wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Maybe the nature of the event is related to the technical specifications and changing them would alter the competitive make up.

Isn't that the point?


I do not understand this. Are you saying it would be a good thing to make the womans short hurdles a less competitive and less interesting race where the top runners started avoiding each other?
26mi235
 
Posts: 16318
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby Pego » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:11 am

Marlow wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Maybe the nature of the event is related to the technical specifications and changing them would alter the competitive make up.

Isn't that the point? Trying to make the event more technical, like the men's? No one sees the 110H as just a speed event, but with the women, if you have even 'decent' form, the fastest sprinters have a huge advantage. Devers proved that. Her technique was OK, but nowhere near most of her opponents.


Donkova's flat 100 was about 0.4-0.5 slower than Devers and 0.12 faster over the hurdles. That is a huge, 0.5-0.6 sec attributable to the technique alone.
Pego
 
Posts: 10197
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby user4 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:52 am

Tuariki wrote:
18.99s wrote:Haha. This 79-year-old lady almost looks better than that over the hurdles: http://www.wcax.com/story/22879163/vt-a ... ords-at-79

The 2 ladies were great. However, if you watch the hurdles training session at about 1 min 50 into the video you will see them training with the hurdles facing the wrong way which could cause a serious injury in a young athlete if the hurdle is hit. With a 79 year old, even though this lady is awesomely fit, it just needs a bad fall at that age to stuff up your body and health completely.


Agree, a 79 year old sprinting over hurdles, right oriented or otherwise, .... is not wise.
user4
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:45 am

Megas15 wrote:Funny...I didn't hear saying so before she won the Olympic Gold.


Was she asked ?
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:51 am

mump boy wrote:
Megas15 wrote:Funny...I didn't hear saying so before she won the Olympic Gold.


Was she asked ?

She wasn't asked this time, she OFFERED!

[IAAF funded athletics comic book, Spikes magazine] asked top hurdlers Sally Pearson and Eilidh Child which athletics rule they’d change if they had the chance, and both said that they should be jumping over bigger hurdles.
batonless relay
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby jjimbojames » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:52 am

How weird that these hurdlers would comment on their own event :shock: :roll:
jjimbojames
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:16 am

Re: Sally Pearson wants sprint hurdles to go higher !!

Postby aaronk » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:03 am

Be interesting to know how many women will leave the event (high hurdling) if/when they change the heights.
When they went from 80 to 100, did any women quit the sport....or change events?

As I said before, I'm most concerned with the marks/records end of things.
Look at past changes.
When they went to the 100 meters (from 100 yards) on a regular basis (not just in OG), all those 9.1's and 9.2's were left behind to collect dust in a nostalgic's closet!

I know the marks will still be there.....but who really cares anymore about those 100 yards people/marks....or the 80H.....or the old Javelin?
Whole careers thrown down the garbage chute!!

Different thread, but I wish they still ran the 500, 600, and 1000 YARD events indoors!!
aaronk
 
Posts: 3348
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:39 am

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], jjimbojames and 8 guests