Luzern


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Re: Luzern

Postby Master Po » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:42 pm

The question was asked earlier:

Who is Rhys Williams?
(GBR) 48.84

Hasn't been in a global final (SF WC '05; H WC '09; SF OG '12), but has :
EC bronze '06, EC silver '10, EC gold '12;
CG 4th '06; CG bronze '10
WAF 5th '09

(sidelined w injuries '07 & almost all of '08)

And now he has a new PB, from his very recent PB of 48.85, 13 July.
:)
Last edited by Master Po on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Luzern

Postby Tuariki » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:45 pm

26mi235 wrote:So far 0 and 19 in SP [Adams rarely fouls?!]
1. 1 Adams Valerie 1984 NZL NEW ZEALAND 20,64 19,71 19,70 20,64 20,36 x
2. 445 Schwanitz Christina 1985 GER LV Erzgebirge 19,65 19,09 18,98 19,40 19,65
3. 153 Terlecki Josephine 1986 GER SC Magdeburg 17,97 17,25 17,73 17,97
4. 74 Kleinert Nadine 1975 GER SC Magdeburg 18,32 17,96 x 17,88 x 18,32


Val won with 20.76 on her last throw
Her series was
19,71 - 19,70 - 20,64 - 20,36 - x - 20,76

Can't work out what you mean by
So far 0 for 19 in SP
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Re: Luzern

Postby Alan Shank » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:46 pm

26mi235 wrote:Jock beats Johnson is a modest pace

01:46.18 1 USA Jock Charles 1989 USA
01:46.41 2 USA Johnson Brandon 1994 USA
01:46.54 3 KEN Kiplagat Abraham 1984 KEN
01:46.59 4 KEN Kirongo Sammy 1994 KEN
01:48.70 5 UGA Mutekanga Julius 1987 UGA
01:49.06 6 GER Riedel Jan 1989 GER
01:52.0 7 SUI Baumgartner Daniel 1987 SUI


Once again, the ubiquitous Matt Scherer as pacemaker; no split given.

In that 100 B race, Bailey, Bracy and Spearmon all DQ 162.7.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Luzern

Postby Alan Shank » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:50 pm

26mi235 wrote:49.14 6 USA Dutch Johnny 1989

49.78 3 RSA Van Zyl Lj 1985


Note Dutch had WL 48.02 going into Des Moines. Van Zyl is sub-48 guy at best.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Luzern

Postby Alan Shank » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:02 pm

Silva cleared 4.81, then X at 4.91, XX at 5 meters.
Spiegelburg 4.71.

Cheers,
Alan Shank
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Re: Luzern

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:34 pm

Tuariki wrote:Can't work out what you mean by
So far 0 for 19 in SP


Sticky keyboard and slightly damaged finger is not a great mix for typing reliability. :) [meant 20m and 19 for second]
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Re: Luzern

Postby betterthanb4 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:03 pm

Race Video Mens 200m- Jason Young

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... HZcY#at=45


Race Video Women's 100H- Rollins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_PJQRqfGi0
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Re: Luzern

Postby Blues » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:03 pm

Alan Shank wrote:In that 100 B race, Bailey, Bracy and Spearmon all DQ 162.7.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


Does anybody know if there were a multitude of separate false starts, or if they utilized the rule that allows multiple athletes to be DQ'd for a single false start if they all jumped before the gun at around the same time?
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Re: Luzern

Postby Jacksf » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:52 pm

Alan Shank wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Jock beats Johnson is a modest pace

01:46.18 1 USA Jock Charles 1989 USA
01:46.41 2 USA Johnson Brandon 1994 USA
01:46.54 3 KEN Kiplagat Abraham 1984 KEN
01:46.59 4 KEN Kirongo Sammy 1994 KEN
01:48.70 5 UGA Mutekanga Julius 1987 UGA
01:49.06 6 GER Riedel Jan 1989 GER
01:52.0 7 SUI Baumgartner Daniel 1987 SUI


Once again, the ubiquitous Matt Scherer as pacemaker; no split given.
A

who cares about Matt Scherer?! The guy hasn't finished a race in years. He's a big cop out! Never had the guts to give either the 400m or 800m a real try.
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Re: Luzern

Postby aaronk » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:03 pm

Jacksf wrote:
Alan Shank wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Jock beats Johnson is a modest pace

01:46.18 1 USA Jock Charles 1989 USA
01:46.41 2 USA Johnson Brandon 1994 USA
01:46.54 3 KEN Kiplagat Abraham 1984 KEN
01:46.59 4 KEN Kirongo Sammy 1994 KEN
01:48.70 5 UGA Mutekanga Julius 1987 UGA
01:49.06 6 GER Riedel Jan 1989 GER
01:52.0 7 SUI Baumgartner Daniel 1987 SUI


Once again, the ubiquitous Matt Scherer as pacemaker; no split given.
A

who cares about Matt Scherer?! He's a big cop out! Never had the guts to give either the 400m or 800m a real try.


Jeez!!
You just DISSED the greatest pacer in history!!
(Say what you just wrote to David Rudisha's face!! :shock: )
As for Matt giving up on the 800.....didn't he just pace a 1500 somewhere??
This past few days??
If so, he surely went 800....maybe even 1000 meters!!
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Re: Luzern

Postby Jacksf » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:40 pm

Being a full-time, professional pacer is nothing! to aspire to or admire.
It used to be that a real athlete would pace some races here and there, but would still compete in their own event. Like I said before, Matt hasn't 'competed' or finished a race in years. It's kind of pathetic. No, it IS pathetic.
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Re: Luzern

Postby tgs3 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:41 pm

Jacksf wrote:Being a full-time, professional pacer is nothing! to aspire to or admire.


He has a job to do that he does very well. I couldn't disagree more with you.
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Re: Luzern

Postby Master Po » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:45 pm

tgs3 wrote:
Jacksf wrote:Being a full-time, professional pacer is nothing! to aspire to or admire.


He has a job to do that he does very well. I couldn't disagree more with you.


I second tgs3's comment. The way races are set up now, there is a demand for Scherer's skill & experience as a pacer. It's part of the sport these days, and he's very good at it.
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Re: Luzern

Postby Jacksf » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:48 pm

Yeah, he's a good pacer, but why not also compete!?
Why not still be an athlete?!
Pacing is not so specific that it prevents you from racing.
Like I said, there were many pacers before Matt, and they all raced.
Matt has turned this into a job for complete quitters! :D
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Re: Luzern

Postby Marlow » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:56 pm

Jacksf wrote:Matt has turned this into a job for complete quitters! :D

By that emoticon, I see you're just pulling our leg, yes? :wink: [hope so!]
Otherwise you make no sense.
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Re: Luzern

Postby gh » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:08 pm

irony alert!
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Re: Luzern

Postby Alan Shank » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:05 pm

gh wrote:irony alert!


You mean "troll alert", don't you?
Cheers,
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Re: Luzern

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:47 pm

Jacksf wrote:Being a full-time, professional pacer is nothing! to aspire to or admire.
It used to be that a real athlete would pace some races here and there, but would still compete in their own event. Like I said before, Matt hasn't 'competed' or finished a race in years. It's kind of pathetic. No, it IS pathetic.


Yes, and your understanding of economics is sorely lacking, much worse than Matt's supposed shortcomings. He is a professional athlete that has stated very clearly why he does not race individually; it would diminish his quality by creating uncertainty in the other athletes. Your suggested tactic has failed on multiple occasions which is why they will pay Matt more than they will pay a 1:43 guy to pace the race.
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Re: Luzern

Postby El Toro » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:57 am

26mi235 wrote:Sticky keyboard and slightly damaged finger is not a great mix for typing reliability. :)

I'm not even gonna ask! :shock:
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Re: Luzern

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:00 am

'Catching' a baseball at age 9 with the finger straight on; the joint got 'restructured with the tendons going above the knuckle so it does not bend readily. It causes a set of typing mistakes, most because it throws off the timing with the next letter getting typed before, especially if it is from the other hand.
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Re: Luzern

Postby DSKlausler » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:16 pm

RE: Spearmon

A DQ & 20.68... this guy IS representing the US in the 200, correct? Is this just practice for him. WTF?
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Re: Luzern

Postby Jacksf » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:00 pm

It's like giving up pitching because you're the best batting practice pitcher!
If you'd rather be the best batting practice pitcher ever, or the best pacer of all time, I think you're taking the easy way.
If Matt went out a few times a season to actually race, I would have a different opinion of him.
But any athlete that doesn't want to challenge himself to see how good he can be....is not really an athlete. At least not one I can respect.
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Re: Luzern

Postby ExCoastRanger » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:26 pm

Perhaps he has already determined how good he can be, within a second or so, and it's around 1:46. What would getting down to 1:45 get him? Fortunately he has the respect of the athletes, meet promoters and race organizers who seek out his talents (pacing other runners is a skill), and your opinion if he's an athlete or not doesn't matter.
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Re: Luzern

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:46 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:Perhaps he has already determined how good he can be, within a second or so, and it's around 1:46. What would getting down to 1:45 get him? Fortunately he has the respect of the athletes, meet promoters and race organizers who seek out his talents (pacing other runners is a skill), and your opinion if he's an athlete or not doesn't matter.


Can't remember where (Flotrack??), but there's an interview with Scherer where he talks about his racing career, and why he won't race again, but will keep being a pacer.

There IS at least one runner I know of who does both.....and does them well.
Phoebe Wright.
At Oxy, she ran 2nd to Jenny Simpson in the 800 (2:00.68), then an hour or so later, ran perfect pace through 850 meters (2:10 or 2:11 at 800) of the 1500.....exactly what was asked for.
She just ran her season's best (Lignano) of 2:00.20, 2nd to Heather Kampf.
Also, I believe she'll be pacing the 1500 at Monaco tomorrow!!
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Re: Luzern

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:11 pm

Jacksf wrote:It's like giving up pitching because you're the best batting practice pitcher!
If you'd rather be the best batting practice pitcher ever, or the best pacer of all time, I think you're taking the easy way.
If Matt went out a few times a season to actually race, I would have a different opinion of him.
But any athlete that doesn't want to challenge himself to see how good he can be....is not really an athlete. At least not one I can respect.


OK, what do you really know about this guy. He tried for several years and he was not even much of a journeyman 400/800 guy. He is also pretty good size. I think if he trains hard enough to get is body around a 400 in mid-40s or 800 in the mid 1:40s his body breaks down from the work. Questioning a runners balls without knowing much does not take much of your own, it seems.
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Re: Luzern

Postby Jacksf » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:24 pm

Hey everyone here makes judgements about athletes all day long on this site.... 'oh, I'm really crushed that so and so was caught doping. He's one of my favorite athletes and seems like a really good guy. I could never believe he would cheat.' blah blah blah
All the time, from Marion Jones all down the line.
What do any of us REALLY know about these athletes?!?! Relatively nothing.
We only judge them on their appearance and performance, and that's what I'm doing. Same as you! Just a very different opinion.

p.s. Matt ran the 800m for only 4 yrs in his entire life! (He should have stayed with the 400m - Pac 10 champ (45.19pb) and 4 x 100 champ), but that's another discussion.) But basically, like somebody working in a big company, he just realized it was too much work to go any further, so let me take a nice secure job where I don't have to push myself, don't have to work late, just do the same thing over and over, and I can pick up a paycheck. Many people do it and have their reasons, and I can respect that; but I don't think athletics is the place for that. Sport at its core is about competing, pushing yourself...not about playing it safe and picking up a paycheck. Yes, this is MY opinion. :)

p.p.s. and still....why can't he actually compete every now and then?! I mean he's still training! Wouldn't you want to know how fast you can actually run, even if you know it won't be world class!
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Re: Luzern

Postby Jacksf » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:27 pm

aaronk wrote:There IS at least one runner I know of who does both.....and does them well.
Phoebe Wright.
At Oxy, she ran 2nd to Jenny Simpson in the 800 (2:00.68), then an hour or so later, ran perfect pace through 850 meters (2:10 or 2:11 at 800) of the 1500.....exactly what was asked for.
She just ran her season's best (Lignano) of 2:00.20, 2nd to Heather Kampf.
Also, I believe she'll be pacing the 1500 at Monaco tomorrow!!


Now I can respect that!!! (matt scherer, not so much)
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Re: Luzern

Postby ExCoastRanger » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:21 pm

[quote="Jacksf"]...he just realized it was too much work to go any further, so let me take a nice secure job where I don't have to push myself, don't have to work late, just do the same thing over and over, and I can pick up a paycheck.... /quote]

You know for a fact these are the motives for his chosen career path?

While it may be your and perhaps even my opinion that the core of sport is about competing and pushing one's self and not picking up a paycheck, professional athletes have to have a broader view. You've already stated you don't respect Sherer as an athlete (would you actually say that to his face, even in a more polite way?), so how do you reconcile that with respecting the athletes that depend on Sherer to do his job so they can do theirs?
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Re: Luzern

Postby Jacksf » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:31 pm

As I said before (over and over), you need not be a pacer exclusively to be a pacer. You can still compete and be a pacer, and those guys will still get their times and their records.
Believe me, if Matt stopped pacing tomorrow, they (promoters and agents) could find competing athletes to fill the void in a day's time.
Bottom line: Matt needs these guys (the athletes he paces) WAY MORE than they need him!
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Re: Luzern

Postby ExCoastRanger » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:46 pm

David Monti interview with Scherer from 2012 via Flotrack:

http://www.flotrack.org/article/13046-P ... ht-Reasons
"In 2010, with two years until the 2012 U.S. Olympic Trials, Matt Scherer had to make a decision that would alter his life for the foreseeable future: hang up the track spikes or give it one more go as a professional athlete. Having not set a personal best at 800m in two years, it would be a tough one for the then 26-year-old to make. He would ultimately chose the latter, except with one significant twist. He would only run as a pacesetter."
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Re: Luzern

Postby ExCoastRanger » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:11 pm

Although Jacksf must undoubtedly have lost respect for the '03 Indoor 800m World Champion once he turned to a career of pacemaking, here's a little insight to how David Krummenacker feels about it:
"There's a camaraderie among runners, a feeling of wanting to help the other guy out, and that really extends to pacemakers...In my vocabulary, rabbit is not a dirty word."

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runne ... age=single
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Re: Luzern

Postby Rothosen » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:47 am

Is this the same site where I've heard incredible bitching about what a lousy job x did as a pacer?
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Re: Luzern

Postby ExCoastRanger » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:20 am

Rothosen wrote:Is this the same site where I've heard incredible bitching about what a lousy job x did as a pacer?


Yes, because it turns out you can't just take any racer and make him/her a pacer.
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Re: Luzern

Postby tm71 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:28 am

ExCoastRanger wrote:Perhaps he has already determined how good he can be, within a second or so, and it's around 1:46. What would getting down to 1:45 get him? Fortunately he has the respect of the athletes, meet promoters and race organizers who seek out his talents (pacing other runners is a skill), and your opinion if he's an athlete or not doesn't matter.


i also heard that professional pacers make good tv announcers/interviewers too ! :)
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