a new twist in high jumping?


Main message board: for the discussion of topical track & field items only.

a new twist in high jumping?

Postby gh » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:52 am

I have not seen any film, but based on the stills here

http://www.photorun.net/index.php?conte ... taskname=B

Bondarenko is doing things a little differently on top of the bar, no?
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby gm » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:17 pm

I thought something looked a bit hinky at the top of his jumps!
gm
 
Posts: 4561
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: "What's the pre-cooked weight on that lab?"

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Marlow » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:53 pm

I've seen that big arm lead before, but that 'head turned to the back of the pit' thing, that's different! I looked at some older videos of his and it looks like a new thing for him.

From the angle of the photo it looks like he's diagonal to the bar, which is a technical 'flaw' as it exposes the hips to the bar for a longer time and 'should' raise the CoG a little (as he's trying to drape himself over the bar), which is a bad thing. But works for him!!!
Last edited by Marlow on Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21135
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Daisy » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm

Just think how high he'll go when he gets the Fosbury Flop right! :twisted:
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby MJR » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:50 pm

I say it'll catch on and everyone will be doing the Bondarenko Bend (tm)
MJR
 
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: on walkabout....

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby rsb2 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:12 pm

Except the "Bend" has already been claimed by Canada's Debbie Brill, who was doing the Brill Bend at about the same time as the Fosbury Flop was happening!
rsb2
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:21 pm

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Marlow » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:17 pm

rsb2 wrote:Except the "Bend" has already been claimed by Canada's Debbie Brill, who was doing the Brill Bend at about the same time as the Fosbury Flop was happening!

Different 'bend'.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21135
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby rsb2 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:45 pm

Yes, you can explain the finer points to Wikipedia :)
rsb2
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:21 pm

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Tuariki » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:37 pm

The Bondy Bonk??
Tuariki
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: Rohe o Te Whanau a Apanui

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby jamal00005 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:39 pm

Tuariki wrote:The Bondy Bonk??

Bondo's Bend
jamal00005
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:46 pm

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby rsb2 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:01 pm

How about the Bondarenko Bender, which can include both the jump, and the party afterwards !
rsb2
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:21 pm

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Per Andersen » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:28 pm

If you watch the numerous videos of him he does not look particularly unusual. His hips are close to square at bar clearance. Holm looked quite similar in that respect. His hips were not totally square either. (Holm's rotation was better though)
I think Bondarenko's bar clearance has improved since last year. He seems to get his hips higher now.
Per Andersen
 
Posts: 3737
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby jamal00005 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:32 pm

rsb2 wrote:How about the Bondarenko Bender, which can include both the jump, and the party afterwards !

mehhhh I like mine a bit better but that was a good try ....though what you called it, doesnt seem to imply anything about jumping :D
jamal00005
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:46 pm

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby jhc68 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:17 pm

Good eye, gh, to catch these interesting pix.
To me this looks like a new application of a very old Russian high jump twist.
The really great Soviet dive straddlers (meaning Brumel and Yashchencko) were coached to twist their upper torso down toward the pit in order to facilitate what I once heard John Dobroth call a "fly-away crotch".
The idea is that if you are airborne and torque your upper body right or left, then your trunk tends naturally to twist the opposite direction.
Stand on a swivel base and try it, it works.
This explains why some photos of both Brumel and Yash depict them looking really awkward with head and shoulders facing downward while hips and legs were contorted completely the opposite way.
American straddlers looked more graceful as they tried to curl around the bar, but that motion often led them to drag the trail leg directly across the plane of the bar thus squandering a chance at clearance.
Looking at the Bonderenko photo sequence (unfortunately organized from right to left) in the first image Bonderenko’s left leg and hip are significantly lower than his right side. Then, as he turns his shoulders and chest to his own left his left hip and leg react in the opposite direction thus leveling to horizontal as his hips and legs for efficient clearance. In the final pic his left hip, knee and foot are more elevated than the right side - complete reversal of position in a fraction of a second.
I’m thinking that lots of other floppers have done similar contortions but not so dramatically.
Per, marknhj, dietmar, et al... does this make sense to you guys?
jhc68
 
Posts: 3291
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Dietmar239 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:55 am

jhc68 wrote:Good eye, gh, to catch these interesting pix.
To me this looks like a new application of a very old Russian high jump twist.
The really great Soviet dive straddlers (meaning Brumel and Yashchencko) were coached to twist their upper torso down toward the pit in order to facilitate what I once heard John Dobroth call a "fly-away crotch".
The idea is that if you are airborne and torque your upper body right or left, then your trunk tends naturally to twist the opposite direction.
Stand on a swivel base and try it, it works.
This explains why some photos of both Brumel and Yash depict them looking really awkward with head and shoulders facing downward while hips and legs were contorted completely the opposite way.
American straddlers looked more graceful as they tried to curl around the bar, but that motion often led them to drag the trail leg directly across the plane of the bar thus squandering a chance at clearance.
Looking at the Bonderenko photo sequence (unfortunately organized from right to left) in the first image Bonderenko’s left leg and hip are significantly lower than his right side. Then, as he turns his shoulders and chest to his own left his left hip and leg react in the opposite direction thus leveling to horizontal as his hips and legs for efficient clearance. In the final pic his left hip, knee and foot are more elevated than the right side - complete reversal of position in a fraction of a second.
I’m thinking that lots of other floppers have done similar contortions but not so dramatically.
Per, marknhj, dietmar, et al... does this make sense to you guys?


Yep, know exactly what you mean. Mogenburg had a similar layout to this but I always felt he was just out of position a bit. Oddly enough, he also had a similar one-legged kick after clearing the bar like Bondarenko. The only jumper I can think of that had that much of a sideways contortion going on was Jimmy Howard. I just don't see the benefit over other styles of jumping where your hips are a bit more square. Though, I've always felt that Igor Paklin had one of the best flop techniques ever. Good speed on the run up, drove his leg better than anyone else I've seen. Unlike others that drive the knee and bring it back to the trail leg he left it up, in fact following his left arm's trajectory. Now at the top, his knee was nearly parallel to the bar, but he reached back so far towards the pit that it placed his hips along the ideal path for maximum clearance. Like Bondarenko he did contort a bit (leaning back towards the take-off leg), but not nearly as pronounced.

I still say that 90% of the jump is handled on the ground and I honestly feel that the speed and the well-handled curve is what has Bohdan leaping 2.41m more than anything else.
Dietmar239
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: I'm a traveller of both time and space to be where I have been.

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Walt Murphy » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:54 am

gh wrote:I have not seen any film, but based on the stills here

http://www.photorun.net/index.php?conte ... taskname=B

Bondarenko is doing things a little differently on top of the bar, no?


When these pictures first made the rounds over the weekend, I asked Dwight Stones for his opinion. His reply:

"The top photo must be a miss at the WR and is likely not reflective of the way he normally jumps. It's a position of desperation and severe body contortion.
What does help him is the left arm extended into the pit because that lengthens the leverage of his torso and allows for a superior and better-controlled layout ("arch" if you will)!"
Walt Murphy
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Marlow » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:00 am

Walt Murphy wrote:It's a position of desperation and severe body contortion.

That's what I was originally thinking to (honest!), but he might be on to something (personally - not necessarily to be taught to others), in that this 'contortion' does seem to torque his body in a way advantageous to CoG lowering (i.e., allowing him to make a higher bar).
Or, it might just be a fluke or an idiosyncrasy.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21135
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby marknhj » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:06 am

jhc68 wrote:I’m thinking that lots of other floppers have done similar contortions but not so dramatically.
Per, marknhj, dietmar, et al... does this make sense to you guys?


Yes, your explanation made sense. However, I'm not at all sure he's doing this deliberately. It's quite common, I think, for athletes in technical events to succeed despite themselves. As a spectator you can often see idiosyncratic elements of technique and wonder if it's "new" or there's a biomechanic theory behind it, when the athlete and their coach are doing their best to correct it behind the scenes! And, as Dietmar says, 90% plus of a jump takes place on the ground.
marknhj
 
Posts: 5070
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: a new twist in high jumping?

Postby Marlow » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:39 am

marknhj wrote:the athlete and their coach are doing their best to correct it behind the scenes!

Dirty little secret! Sometimes the best performances out of my athletes make me cringe as a coach.
[reminds me of the time in a soccer match one of my players ran on to a ball in overtime, about 40 yards out, and just booted it vaguely at goal. As I'm yelling at him, "No, work it in closer!" it sails over the keeper for the winning goal :oops: ]
Marlow
 
Posts: 21135
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Per Andersen and 6 guests