Chase the A and B status


Main message board: for the discussion of topical track & field items only.

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:43 pm

gh wrote:
donley2 wrote:
tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.

Don't know that the official rules have said in the past, but there is almost certainly precedent for entering people who did not meet the officially stated guidelines in the past.

I can't name chapter and verse, but they have "filled" in the past. Pretty sure you'll find a Breaux Greer instance.

I think the rules were different in the past.

The reason not to do this, given the current printed rules, is that it's arguably not fair to others below the 4th place finishers who could have chased the standards but didn't do so because the rules said that post-Nationals marks wouldn't count.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15043
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gh » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:51 pm

the rules, as always I suspect, are whatever the T&FN Committee decides they are when team-naming time comes.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:59 pm

I guess we'll know in a few weeks.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15043
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gm » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:33 pm

gh wrote:the rules, as always I suspect, are whatever the T&FN Committee decides they are when team-naming time comes.


Got an errant "N" there :wink:
gm
 
Posts: 4560
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: "What's the pre-cooked weight on that lab?"

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby lionelp1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:29 pm

gh wrote:the rules, as always I suspect, are whatever the T&FN Committee decides they are when team-naming time comes.


Can the rules of the T&F Committee be anymore complex, stultifying and generally quite meaningless than the UKA Rules for Selection Process. I doubt it. The latter select who they want and there is always a clause dreamed up by their "experts" to justify their choices.
lionelp1
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:48 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:10 am

gm wrote:
gh wrote:the rules, as always I suspect, are whatever the T&FN Committee decides they are when team-naming time comes.

Got an errant "N" there :wink:

Maybe he's trying to tell us something. :)
tandfman
 
Posts: 15043
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Alan Shank » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:13 pm

Higginson in Lausanne 9:49+, nowhere near A standard.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA
Alan Shank
 
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: N38 40, W 121 52

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Walt Murphy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:17 pm

Alan Shank wrote:Higginson in Lausanne 9:49+, nowhere near A standard.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


Are you suggesting she needs an "A"? As a "B" qualifier, I'm pretty sure she's already on the team, since she finished 2nd to Nicole Bush, who has the "A", at the U.S. Nationals.
Walt Murphy
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Pego » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:23 pm

Walt Murphy wrote:
Alan Shank wrote:Higginson in Lausanne 9:49+, nowhere near A standard.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


Are you suggesting she needs an "A"? As a "B" qualifier, I'm pretty sure she's already on the team, since she finished 2nd to Nicole Bush, who has the "A", at the U.S. Nationals.


Walt, do you have any inside info about telecast/webcast from Moscow? I know many posters here would appreciate that info :D .
Pego
 
Posts: 10203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:39 pm

Walt Murphy wrote:
Alan Shank wrote:Higginson in Lausanne 9:49+, nowhere near A standard.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

Are you suggesting she needs an "A"? As a "B" qualifier, I'm pretty sure she's already on the team, since she finished 2nd to Nicole Bush, who has the "A", at the U.S. Nationals.

She does not need an A, but if she got one, then Shalaya Kipp, who finished 3rd and has a B, would be our third steepler. If neither Higginson nor Kipp get the A by July 20, then Jamie Cheever is the 3rd steepler.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15043
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Walt Murphy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:59 pm

Pego wrote:Walt, do you have any inside info about telecast/webcast from Moscow? I know many posters here would appreciate that info :D .


Looking into it
Walt Murphy
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Pego » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:10 pm

Walt Murphy wrote:
Pego wrote:Walt, do you have any inside info about telecast/webcast from Moscow? I know many posters here would appreciate that info :D .


Looking into it


Thanks 8-) .
Pego
 
Posts: 10203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Alan Shank » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:18 pm

tandfman wrote:
Walt Murphy wrote:
Alan Shank wrote:Higginson in Lausanne 9:49+, nowhere near A standard.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

Are you suggesting she needs an "A"? As a "B" qualifier, I'm pretty sure she's already on the team, since she finished 2nd to Nicole Bush, who has the "A", at the U.S. Nationals.

She does not need an A, but if she got one, then Shalaya Kipp, who finished 3rd and has a B, would be our third steepler. If neither Higginson nor Kipp get the A by July 20, then Jamie Cheever is the 3rd steepler.


This is what I was referring to -- Kipp is bummed out! >:-) Of course, it's up to Kipp to get her own A.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA
Alan Shank
 
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: N38 40, W 121 52

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:16 pm

I believe Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their "A"'s for the 1500.
Ashley Higginson failed to get her's for the SC in Lausanne, but she tweeted that she'll keep trying. Should be 2 or 3 more chances for her.

For the person who asked about the date of the Hasay/Erdmann 10K attempt, the Portland Roughrider Twilight meet, as it's being called, is set for the evening of July 15th, with several other events scheduled!!
If the weather is bad, or Hasay or Erdmann are ill, a back-up date of July 19th is set....but only for the 10K!!
aaronk
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:39 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby rsb2 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:34 pm

" Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their A's " ? When did this happen?
rsb2
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:21 pm

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Alan Shank » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:55 pm

rsb2 wrote:" Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their A's " ? When did this happen?


Nothing on Tilastopaja on that. Probably another "tweet".
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA
Alan Shank
 
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: N38 40, W 121 52

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:07 pm

Alan Shank wrote:
rsb2 wrote:" Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their A's " ? When did this happen?


Nothing on Tilastopaja on that. Probably another "tweet".
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


OMG!!!
I'm VERY sorry!! :oops: :oops:
I was reading Let's Run's PREVIEW of the Paris 1500, in which Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz will TRY for their "A"s!!!
So it must have been projected wishful thinking on my part!!

Again, very sorry.....and please IGNORE (what I said earlier)!!

(But I think they WILL get them Saturday!)
aaronk
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:39 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Alan Shank » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:35 pm

aaronk wrote:
Alan Shank wrote:
rsb2 wrote:" Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their A's " ? When did this happen?


Nothing on Tilastopaja on that. Probably another "tweet".
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


OMG!!!
I'm VERY sorry!! :oops: :oops:
I was reading Let's Run's PREVIEW of the Paris 1500, in which Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz will TRY for their "A"s!!!
So it must have been projected wishful thinking on my part!!

Again, very sorry.....and please IGNORE (what I said earlier)!!

(But I think they WILL get them Saturday!)


Most of us are ignoring everything you say. >:-)
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA
Alan Shank
 
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: N38 40, W 121 52

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:52 pm

aaronk wrote:I believe Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their "A"'s for the 1500.
Ashley Higginson failed to get her's for the SC in Lausanne, but she tweeted that she'll keep trying. Should be 2 or 3 more chances for her.

For the person who asked about the date of the Hasay/Erdmann 10K attempt, the Portland Roughrider Twilight meet, as it's being called, is set for the evening of July 15th, with several other events scheduled!!
If the weather is bad, or Hasay or Erdmann are ill, a back-up date of July 19th is set....but only for the 10K!!


Wouldn't that make the race not eligible as a qualifier?
Dutra5
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby bushop » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:35 pm

Alan Shank wrote:Most of us are ignoring everything you say. >:-)

Poor form.
bushop
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: near the toys and tape measures

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:40 am

Dutra5 wrote:
aaronk wrote:I believe Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their "A"'s for the 1500.
Ashley Higginson failed to get her's for the SC in Lausanne, but she tweeted that she'll keep trying. Should be 2 or 3 more chances for her.

For the person who asked about the date of the Hasay/Erdmann 10K attempt, the Portland Roughrider Twilight meet, as it's being called, is set for the evening of July 15th, with several other events scheduled!!
If the weather is bad, or Hasay or Erdmann are ill, a back-up date of July 19th is set....but only for the 10K!!


Wouldn't that make the race not eligible as a qualifier?


No, not eligible for records, but I think is ok for a qualifier. The NCAA has different rules and does not take qualifiers from the PV Summit (single event meet) if I recall correctly.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:59 am

If it's a sanctioned event (and I gather the Portland meet will be), it should be ok for records.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15043
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby James Fields » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:15 am

Alan Shank wrote: Higginson in Lausanne 9:49+, nowhere near A standard.
... Kipp is bummed out! Of course, it's up to Kipp to get her own A.
________

Kipp will run 3000m steeple July 8 in France (Meeting International de Sotteville lès Rouen) seeking a 2013 "A" time -- 9:43 or faster.

World Championship year finds USA Olympians Emma Coburn and Shalaya Kipp injured, Higginson with outdated "A" performance (9:34.49 in July 2012) and Colleen Quigley (9:38.23 runner-up at 2013 NCAA Champs) scratching after her entry in USATF champs at Des Moines.
James Fields
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Knoxville and Seattle

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:59 am

tandfman wrote:If it's a sanctioned event (and I gather the Portland meet will be), it should be ok for records.


Even if one event is moved 4 or 5 days because of an unexpected tummy ache for one of the participants or some unexpected heat, rain or snow?

That is, of course, if that bit of info is true.
Dutra5
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby mcgato » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:12 pm

Updated for the m1500 end of chase. Manzano and Lomong both got the A. They make the team along with Centro who has the B.
mcgato
 
Posts: 1607
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Hoboken

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tm71 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:19 pm

aaronk wrote:
Alan Shank wrote:
rsb2 wrote:" Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz got their A's " ? When did this happen?


Nothing on Tilastopaja on that. Probably another "tweet".
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA


OMG!!!
I'm VERY sorry!! :oops: :oops:
I was reading Let's Run's PREVIEW of the Paris 1500, in which Manzano, Lomong, and Centrowitz will TRY for their "A"s!!!
So it must have been projected wishful thinking on my part!!

Again, very sorry.....and please IGNORE (what I said earlier)!!

(But I think they WILL get them Saturday!)


Manzano and lomong did so they are heading to Moscow with Centro.
tm71
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby wineturtle » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:47 pm

Blues wrote:
gh wrote:
donley2 wrote:
tandfman wrote:If USATF follows its own published rules, Torrence's time will not put him on the Moscow team, no matter what anyone else does between now and the entry deadline.


Don't know that the official rules have said in the past, but there is almost certainly precedent for entering people who did not meet the officially stated guidelines in the past.


I can't name chapter and verse, but they have "filled" in the past. Pretty sure you'll find a Breaux Greer instance.


tandfman is going by the stated official USATF rules and procedures for Moscow World Championships team selection. I think Greer made the 2008 Olympic team because of a special clause that allowed the addition of injured athletes who competed in the trials but didn't make the team, if they had the A standard, and as long as no other athlete was displaced.

The 2013 USATF Governance Handbook includes the paragraph below, but interestingly it doesn't include the World Championships.. Does anyone have an idea why that might be?:

220512 Complete teams-

In obtaining representation for the United States in each competition and event of the Olympic Games, Paralympic Games, and Pan-American Games, the corporation, either directly or by delegation to the appropriate national governing body or paralympic sports organization, may select, but is not obligated to select (even if not selecting will result in an incomplete team for an event), athletes who have not met the eligibility standard of the national governing body and the Corporation, when the number of athletes who have met the eligibility standards of such entities is insufficient to fill the roster for an event.

Perhaps
since the mentioned events are under the US Olympic Committee it has to do with their rules standards or stated goals.
USOC not involved with IAAF Worlds

In the chase still-- Elliott
since Mathew Centrowitz seems to be injured( on some not yet clear level ) a B gets him in position should Mathew have a serious injury.
EDIT 7 july- Salazar says Centrowitz is not injured just jet lagged, embarrassed about the first time he ever DNFed and will be ready to go @ Monoco
Last edited by wineturtle on Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wineturtle
 
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Astoria Queens New York

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:52 pm

A whole slew of Americans just ran 3:34 and several more ran 3:35 in Belgium; see Front Page
26mi235
 
Posts: 16335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby pickle47 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:42 pm

Cory McGee 4:09.xx in Belgium.
pickle47
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Another perfect day in So Cal

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby aaronk » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:37 am

Shalaya Kipp runs soon in France.......less than 3 hours from now!!
She needs the "A" of 9:43.
Wish her well.
aaronk
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:39 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby donley2 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:35 pm

aaronk wrote:Shalaya Kipp runs soon in France.......less than 3 hours from now!!
She needs the "A" of 9:43.
Wish her well.


No "A" for Kipp 9:47.
donley2
 
Posts: 2061
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby aaronk » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:56 pm

donley2 wrote:
aaronk wrote:Shalaya Kipp runs soon in France.......less than 3 hours from now!!
She needs the "A" of 9:43.
Wish her well.


No "A" for Kipp 9:47.


She tweeted that she fell on the next to last water jump!
That she still ran as fast as she did shows she was on pace to get the A.
She'll try again....and get it.
BTW, her tweet says she ran 9:45.

ADD: Saw the results, and it says 9:47.45.......so Kipp probably just tweeted wrong.
Also, the woman who won the race, Ayana, is the same woman who finished 2nd to Dibaba in the 5K....with her 14:25 PR.
She ran 9:38 today.
Not bad, considering her 14:25 was just 2 days ago!
aaronk
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 9:39 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:45 am

our latest take on the overall situation now posted to front page (and as it says, all amendments most welcome!; this remains a confusing setup)
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:19 am

aaronk wrote:Also, the woman who won the race, Ayana, is the same woman who finished 2nd to Dibaba in the 5K....with her 14:25 PR.

She ran 9:38 today. Not bad, considering her 14:25 was just 2 days ago!


Yes, but 14:25 is about on par with a 9:10, so a 9:38 is like coming back and running a 15:20.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby bushop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:44 pm

Some throwing notes:

No 2013 Big Winds meet in Hawaii.

Here are some meets some of the chasers will be at:

Wed, July 17th -- Olympic Training Center California
-- Mike Torie (discus)
Sat, July 20th -- Claremont College California
-- Mike Torie (discus)

Fri, July 12th -- Mahwah New Jersey
-- James Plummer (discus)
Tue, July 16th -- Neptune New Jersey
-- James Plummer (discus)
Fri, July 19th -- Mahwah New Jersey
-- James Plummer (discus)

Sat, July 20 -- Chicagoland Summer Throws Series, Lisle Illinois
-- Kyle Smith (javelin)
-- Kara Patterson (javelin)
Last edited by bushop on Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bushop
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: near the toys and tape measures

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby tandfman » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:08 pm

bushop wrote:Some throwing notes:

No 2013 Big Winds meet in Hawaii.

Here are some meets some of the chasers with be at:

Wed, July 17th -- Olympic Training Center California
-- Mike Torie (discus)
Sat, July 20th -- Claremont College California
-- Mike Torie (discus)

Fri, July 12th -- Mahwah New Jersey
-- James Plummer (discus)
Tue, July 16th -- Neptune New Jersey
-- James Plummer (discus)
Fri, July 19th -- Mahwah New Jersey
-- James Plummer (discus)

Sat, July 20 -- Chicagoland Summer Throws Series, Lisle Illinois
-- Kyle Smith (javelin)
-- Kara Patterson (javelin)

If I read the USATF selection procedures correctly, of those you've mentioned, only Plummer and Patterson would be able to chase a standard. If you finished below the top 4 at the Nationals, you cannot chase--your best qualifying performance is locked in when your event is finished at the Nationals.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15043
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby bushop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:20 pm

tandfman wrote:If I read the USATF selection procedures correctly, of those you've mentioned, only Plummer and Patterson would be able to chase a standard. If you finished below the top 4 at the Nationals, you cannot chase--your best qualifying performance is locked in when your event is finished at the Nationals.

Common opinion seems to be folks believe USATF may wobble. They hope if they hit an "A" and the roster is not filled they may get to go.
bushop
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: near the toys and tape measures

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby gh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:48 pm

I may have contributed to thoughts about "wobbling," but I think the exceptions they have made in the past have been only for those who already had an A/B at the time of the nationals, and those were processed for possible team inclusion then.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby wineturtle » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:00 am

Agree gh
I'd venture the guess that unless you have been processed already you will not get a berth on the team.. Seems that everyone already processed got sent a Team USA Kit (Goucher,& Cain to mention two who published about it)
wineturtle
 
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Astoria Queens New York

Re: Chase the A and B status

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:30 am

Does that mean that an athlete that is qualified in one event (e.g., shot) would be able to advance to the team in another (e.g., the discus) outside the narrow guidelines because they would already have the processing done?
26mi235
 
Posts: 16335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 3 guests