Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)


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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:47 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:And yet, that is still illegal in any elite meet, let alone a World or Olympic championship. Unless it's a marathon (the only exception they make, because the race is so long that the relevance of male pacemakers becomes almost infinitesimal, which is not the case in a 10K or anything shorter than a half-marathon), I think the IAAF will be very tempted to raise a red flag on this. Why is it that Loa Olafsson's 1978 track performances were bounced from consideration as WRs?


The rules for having WRs ratified and qualifying for a meet can be different. They also may have changed over the last 35 years as well.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:48 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
booond wrote:Is it illegal in this situation? Do you think Salazar would run Hasay in a situation that would get overturned by IAAF lawyers?

A good chance the answer will be yes, as far as the IAAF possibly ruling the performance illegal is concerned.

What is the IAAF rule (if there is a rule) concerning women's qualifying standards and performances achieved on the track in races with male pacesetters?


Answer below.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:53 pm

One rule that should be in place is that its a real competition. An event in which only one female is a participant is not a competition so I think that is critical point here. There is no competition here. By thus allowing this in the future others will do the same time and again and the sport will become a joke! I actually believe by the end of the year at the convention for USATF as well as the IAAF congress there will be rules changes put in place to stop this as many at the high end of the sport are aghast and angry this is taking place and feel powerless at the moment to stop it because they are not properly reading the rulebook. If they properly read it then they would read that those not in the event can't pace and men and women are not participating in the same event - they are in separate events being contested at the same time. Like a marathon.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:54 pm

It is addressed:

However, mixed stadium competition in Field Events and in races of 5000m or longer may be permitted in all competitions except those held under Rules 1.1(a) to (h). In the case of competitions held under Rules 1.1(i) and (j) such mixed competition shall be allowed in a particular competition if specifically permitted by the relevant Area governing body.


Rule 1 addresses International competitions and does not apply. So there's the answer. The competition can be a mixed gender event.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:10 pm

bushop wrote:
dustoff wrote:... a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

When did this happen?


I agree, the complaints really are out of touch with reality. Hasay is a collegian. Let us look at how many real opportunities she had to set and qualifying mark. She ran the first two 10,000s of her life in the spring, just missing the B in her first real attempt at the distance (the first race was designed just to get her a feel for the distance). Then, her racing opportunities were entirely comprised of: the Pac-12 champs; the very hot Regional race (where no one was going to get the A short of Dibaba-class runners in humid, 90-degree heat). Then she came back and ran the 5000 and qualified, to everyone's surprise. Then she ran the 5000 at NCAAs (with no chance to run the 10,000). Then, she had the hot race at the Trials where she ran a very credible mark not too much shy of the B. Now, she is running her next race after recovering from her extended peak trying to make the team.

Anyone that really thinks that she has been deficient really ought to crawl under a rock, as far as I am concerned. And, there are some rather knowledgeable posters spotting such things. And none of the runners probably care that people are saying a bunch of foolish things.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:26 pm

bushop wrote:When did this happen?

When did what happen?

They've run more than 1 10k in their lives and this season. They haven't approached the standard and need this comical attempt of having a number of men surround them to block them from the wind and perfectly pace them to achieve it. That is an absolute joke and absurdity.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:29 pm

26mi235 wrote:I agree, the complaints really are out of touch with reality. Hasay is a collegian. Let us look at how many real opportunities she had to set and qualifying mark. She ran the first two 10,000s of her life in the spring, just missing the B in her first real attempt at the distance (the first race was designed just to get her a feel for the distance). Then, her racing opportunities were entirely comprised of: the Pac-12 champs; the very hot Regional race (where no one was going to get the A short of Dibaba-class runners in humid, 90-degree heat). Then she came back and ran the 5000 and qualified, to everyone's surprise. Then she ran the 5000 at NCAAs (with no chance to run the 10,000). Then, she had the hot race at the Trials where she ran a very credible mark not too much shy of the B. Now, she is running her next race after recovering from her extended peak trying to make the team.

Anyone that really thinks that she has been deficient really ought to crawl under a rock, as far as I am concerned. And, there are some rather knowledgeable posters spotting such things. And none of the runners probably care that people are saying a bunch of foolish things.

Then why doesn't she go run a 10k in Europe or under some normal setting? Why run surrounded by a pack of men to give her the perfect pace, perfect lane positioning, block the wind and any potential people from getting in her way, etc.? This is an utter joke and not in the competitive spirit. Why don't we just have male pacemakers in all of the women races? Hell, why stop there, why not have rabbits alternate laps at the appropriate pace to pace entire 5k, 10ks, marathons with loops, etc.?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:33 pm

dustoff wrote:
bushop wrote:When did this happen?

When did what happen?

They've run more than 1 10k in their lives and this season. They haven't approached the standard and need this comical attempt of having a number of men surround them to block them from the wind and perfectly pace them to achieve it. That is an absolute joke and absurdity.


Standard is 32:05 and Hasay has run 32:06... the joke is you don't understand the definition of approaching.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:44 pm

Cool, when she gets lapped in Moscow after this pathetic attempt I'll be happy to eat my crow.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:59 pm

dustoff wrote:
bushop wrote:When did this happen?

When did what happen?

They've run more than 1 10k in their lives and this season. They haven't approached the standard and need this comical attempt of having a number of men surround them to block them from the wind and perfectly pace them to achieve it. That is an absolute joke and absurdity.



Now you are being stupid. You expect a collegiate runner in 90+, humid weather to run the standard? That is about the silliest assumption I have every seen here, it almost is not feasible to do the Q.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 pm

26mi235 wrote:Now you are being stupid. You expect a collegiate runner in 90+, humid weather to run the standard? That is about the silliest assumption I have every seen here, it almost is not feasible to do the Q.


Look, be happy to disagree. That's fine. If the B is so easy for her, I don't see why she needs this abomination of a track race to achieve the standard. It is just my opinion, simple as that.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:44 pm

26mi235 wrote:Now you are being stupid. You expect a collegiate runner in 90+, humid weather to run the standard? That is about the silliest assumption I have every seen here, it almost is not feasible to do the Q.


What is this all about? Are we to have differing standards for Hasay just because she is a US collegian? "silliest assumption" pretty well sums up this reasoning. Being a collegiate runner is completely and totally irrelevant. And I am sure Hasay would agree. She is just another runner trying to maximise her chances of qualifying for the WC.

And good luck to her if she is able to achieve it through her privately organized attempt. If the IAAF rules allow it,then that should be the end of the matter. Like the purists, I would also like to see her achieve the time in a real race against other women. However,the object of the exercise is to meet the qualifying standard. And as a real race against other woman has too many negative risk factors that can't be controlled, it is simply common sense to set up your own "race" to ensure you meet the qualifying standard- if such attempts are allowed by IAAF rules.

And after meeting the standard she can run the 10000 in Moscow, and endorsing what dustoff says she can do her best to make sure she is only lapped once.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby gm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:47 pm

The 10,000 qualifying window opened January 1, 2012.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:56 pm

As I said above, it is very difficult for a collegian to get a qualifying mark. She ran her first real 10,000m race in the early spring and missed the B by less than 2 seconds. Then, she faced the following, none conducive to getting a Q and all making it impossible to run other races: 1) Pac-12 Champs; 2) NCAA Regional in Austin, temp ~90+humid (30C);3) NCAAs had to run the 5000 because she qualified in the 5000 not the 10,000; 4) USATF/Trials in warm weather in Des Moines, where getting the B was a very difficult thing to do. So, after the succession of 5 championship races where it is almost impossible to get the Standard, she then has to recover from that very hard 6 weeks and then try and do the Q.

And, yes, nowhere else in the world is this sequence an issue. [Kenyans and Ethiopeans have their own issues, but rarely is it the case that in the critical 8 weeks it is really not feasible to do the 10,000 qualifying. Some of the posters seem to think of this as a 1500 or a 800 or a sprint, where you get to do many races.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:12 pm

26mi235 wrote:As I said above, it is very difficult for a collegian to get a qualifying mark. She ran her first real 10,000m race in the early spring and missed the B by less than 2 seconds. Then, she faced the following, none conducive to getting a Q and all making it impossible to run other races: 1) Pac-12 Champs; 2) NCAA Regional in Austin, temp ~90+humid (30C);3) NCAAs had to run the 5000 because she qualified in the 5000 not the 10,000; 4) USATF/Trials in warm weather in Des Moines, where getting the B was a very difficult thing to do. So, after the succession of 5 championship races where it is almost impossible to get the Standard, she then has to recover from that very hard 6 weeks and then try and do the Q.

And, yes, nowhere else in the world is this sequence an issue. [Kenyans and Ethiopeans have their own issues, but rarely is it the case that in the critical 8 weeks it is really not feasible to do the 10,000 qualifying. Some of the posters seem to think of this as a 1500 or a 800 or a sprint, where you get to do many races.

Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby pickle47 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:38 pm

To all of the purists: Many of you may have seen Ryan Hill run 13:14 today in perfect conditions, with perfect pacemaking (at least in the second group led most of the race by another American, Ben True), in what were arguably better competitive conditions than Ms. Hasay will encounter. There is an adrenaline jolt in racing in Europe that you don't get in what you are terming a pseudo-race in OR. I would posit that Mr. Hill's set-up was better all around for him to get the A/B.

So what matters? The city? The organizer speaking Belgian in stead of English? Prize money for top finishers? A string of fast people in front of you? Their chromosomal constitution? The number of previous opportunities to run the standard? Diamond League? Permit Meeting? Other events being held in the meet?

Hopefully you get my point. Mr. Salazar is, no doubt, vetting the Twilight meet to the hilt. He's a pro, and he's not going to put his athletes in jeopardy. If the IAAF says go, it's go.

Speaking of which, Ms. Hasay is now a pro. To me, that means she can and should do everything in her power to run fast, qualify for championships, move up in the ranks, get exposure, and leverage everything at her disposal ethically to succeed on every level in her chosen event(s). She owes it to her sponsor, and her current and future livelihood depend on it.

So, while Ms. Hasay is circling the track on Sunday night, trying to run a world-class time in what you, and let's face it, I, would term a glorified WORKOUT, let's give that a little deep thought. While you may think she is taking the "easy" way to the standard, I am of the opinion that this will be harder, physically and mentally, than really any other option open to her at this time.

Here's another American runner trying to make it as a pro, and so far in the dawn of her career, succeeding. I say Kudos. Take your wet blankets and go look for someone else to throw them on.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bushop » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:50 pm

Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.

She (or her coach) chose from what menu of options?
What opportunities did she dismiss/ reject?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:55 pm

Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.


Really? Check out your assumptions. Tell me, realistically what 10,000m race could she have run for a qualifying mark. I doubt you can find a single feasible race. I will impose the constraint that she is a collegian on scholarship on a team vying for the NCAA championship (finished third).
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:12 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.


Really? Check out your assumptions. Tell me, realistically what 10,000m race could she have run for a qualifying mark. I doubt you can find a single feasible race. I will impose the constraint that she is a collegian on scholarship on a team vying for the NCAA championship (finished third).

And so what? If she has chosen to be on a scholarship and taken on the obligations of that scholarship that's her choice; and the limitations of that choice is her problem because she made that choice.

Clearly, she was not willing to sacrifice everything just in order to chase a 10,000m qualifying time. I am sure she had counted on running a couple of seconds faster than the 32:06 she ran. She didn't and because of the various choices she has made she is now scrambling to find a "race"that will maximise her likely only remaining chance to qualify for Moscow in the 10K. And I hope she makes it.

And by the way, I think she made the right choice by putting her long term future first, that is, a future that will be more dictated by the fact she is a Bachelor degree graduate of the University of Oregon,and not because she was once a very good runner.

I compare Hasay to the efforts of the 2 kiwi brothers, Jake and Zane Robertson. They sacrificed everything for running. They went from high school to live in Kenya because they believed if Kenyan authorities allowed them to stay and live in the Rift Valley then this would maximise their chances to be world class runner. They have spent the past few months racing all over the Globe looking for the elusive Moscow qualifying times. Yesterday they both qualified in the 5000 for Moscow. 13:13 and 13:15.

I prefer Hasay's pathway. Running is today's pleasure. For the future she has her education to fall back on. The Robertson's will have memories and probably precious little else. But that is their choice and good luck to them.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:37 pm

Tuariki wrote:I compare Hasay to the efforts of the 2 kiwi brothers, Jake and Zane Robertson. They sacrificed everything for running. They went from high school to live in Kenya because they believed if Kenyan authorities allowed them to stay and live in the Rift Valley then this would maximise their chances to be world class runner....


Probably not a good comparison. Hasay was a high school phenom (excellent student/athlte) who took on at the highest levels the obligations of education, scholarship and team-oriented goals, and she arguably sacrificed a great deal of her own potential performances in doing so.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:46 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:
Tuariki wrote:I compare Hasay to the efforts of the 2 kiwi brothers, Jake and Zane Robertson. They sacrificed everything for running. They went from high school to live in Kenya because they believed if Kenyan authorities allowed them to stay and live in the Rift Valley then this would maximise their chances to be world class runner....


Probably not a good comparison. Hasay was a high school phenom (excellent student/athlte) who took on at the highest levels the obligations of education, scholarship and team-oriented goals, and she arguably sacrificed a great deal of her own potential performances in doing so.

I guess this is one of the problems when you are good at everything
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:48 pm

In all the talk about Hasay, let's not forget Tara Erdmann.......and that what Hasay does (or doesn't do) will affect Erdmann's run.

First, I don't understand why they've split it into 2 races.
I saw both their Flotrack interviews.....the latest ones.......in which both professed TOTAL confidence they could run the "A" standard of 31:45.
There was no talk of Erdmann going for the "B"........unless, halfway through the run, she felt she couldn't do it, so would slow up and go for the "B" of 32:05.

What changed??
What difference will it make to have Erdmann run separately??
Even if they'd decided to go for different goals (A or B), they could do it in the same run.....just have separate pacers for each of them!!

Second, in the USATF, they (along with Amy Hastings) seemed to do just fine in SELF-pacing.....meaning not having others beside those 3.....and helping each other.
Why couldn't they do the same in Portland.....have Hasay take a couple of laps, then Erdmann, then back to Hasay, and on and on??

I'll be watching (on Flotrack), but I'll be rooting for......Amy Hastings and Kara Goucher!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:53 pm

aaronk wrote: Why couldn't they do the same in Portland.....have Hasay take a couple of laps, then Erdmann, then back to Hasay, and on and on??


Seriously?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby pickle47 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:58 pm

aaronk wrote:I'll be watching (on Flotrack), but I'll be rooting for......Amy Hastings and Kara Goucher!!


Hopefully you will be rooting for them for sentimental reasons. It certainly doesn't make sense to root for them because you think they will represent the U.S. better (finish higher) in the WCs. They finished 4th and 5th in Des Moine.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Tuariki wrote:
ExCoastRanger wrote:
Tuariki wrote:I compare Hasay to the efforts of the 2 kiwi brothers, Jake and Zane Robertson. They sacrificed everything for running. They went from high school to live in Kenya because they believed if Kenyan authorities allowed them to stay and live in the Rift Valley then this would maximise their chances to be world class runner....


Probably not a good comparison. Hasay was a high school phenom (excellent student/athlte) who took on at the highest levels the obligations of education, scholarship and team-oriented goals, and she arguably sacrificed a great deal of her own potential performances in doing so.

I guess this is one of the problems when you are good at everything


And/or you work really hard at everything.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby James Fields » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:06 pm

It would have been nice to see Ms. Hasay compete (and win) for USA team in women's 10,000 meter run of the 2013 World University Games this past week at Kazan, Russia.

Ayuko Suzuki of Japan won with 32:54.17, more than a minute shy of the WUG meet record of 31:46.43. by Viorica Ghican of Romania.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:14 pm

Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bushop » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:18 pm

Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.

She (or her coach) chose from what menu of options?
What opportunities did she dismiss/ reject?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:23 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:
aaronk wrote: Why couldn't they do the same in Portland.....have Hasay take a couple of laps, then Erdmann, then back to Hasay, and on and on??


Seriously?


Um....yes!
(Tell me what's wrong with that plan? That's what they did for a few laps at USATF!!)
pickle47 wrote:
aaronk wrote:I'll be watching (on Flotrack), but I'll be rooting for......Amy Hastings and Kara Goucher!!


Hopefully you will be rooting for them for sentimental reasons. It certainly doesn't make sense to root for them because you think they will represent the U.S. better (finish higher) in the WCs. They finished 4th and 5th in Des Moine.


For a couple of reasons.
"Sentimental", yes.
But also because I think this Portland set-up is ridiculous.....and I'd rather see it fail......so future marks chasers won't make the same mistake.
Finally, I'll be rooting for Goucher and Hastings because, while they ran a bit sub-par at USATF, their PR's are, respectively, 30:55.16 and 31:10.69..........about a minute or more faster than Hasay or Erdmann have ever run!!
At their best, they'd be close to lapping Hasay and Erdmann!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:24 pm

pickle47 wrote:
aaronk wrote:I'll be watching (on Flotrack), but I'll be rooting for......Amy Hastings and Kara Goucher!!


Hopefully you will be rooting for them for sentimental reasons. It certainly doesn't make sense to root for them because you think they will represent the U.S. better (finish higher) in the WCs. They finished 4th and 5th in Des Moine.


With the extra 10,000 which would need to be run, it's possible that this would work in favor of a Hastings/Goucher being better prepared for Moscow. I don't really care who makes the team. The race setup aspect of things seems a bit cheesy but whatever.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:29 pm

bushop wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.

She (or her coach) chose from what menu of options?
What opportunities did she dismiss/ reject?

She chose not to drop out of school and chase 10K races around the US and indeed around the globe.
She chose to race non 10K races for Oregon.
She chose not to go to the WUG and run 10K over there.

IMO she made the right choices but if she had decided the sole focus of her life was to get the 10K Q time she may have made other choices.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby pickle47 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:34 pm

[quote="aaronk]Finally, I'll be rooting for Goucher and Hastings because, while they ran a bit sub-par at USATF, their PR's are, respectively, 30:55.16 and 31:10.69..........about a minute or more faster than Hasay or Erdmann have ever run!!
At their best, they'd be close to lapping Hasay and Erdmann!![/quote]
You should put a couple of dates next to those PRs for context. We are witnessing the ascension of some and the descension of others. And you are generous with your "a bit sub-par". BTW, I would be defending AH and KG if the tables were turned.

Welcome to 21st century track and field. This isn't Jim Ryun running through the cornfields of Kansas anymore.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:42 pm

dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.


Now you are getting to LetsRun nastiness. Do you think that you are smarter than all of the students or faculty at Oregon? Do you really have a clue rather than taking repeated nasty shots at people for no particular reason than.. whatever. Have you compared the quality of the students in the Honors College with those, of, say Wisconsin (which is rated in some places as in the top 15-25 schools)?

Do you really know what you are talking about or are you relying on knowing a bunch in track and field so that people will expect that you know what you are talking about in other areas? As a disclaimer, I taught at Oregon State. What about you?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:45 pm

aaronk wrote:But also because I think this Portland set-up is ridiculous.....and I'd rather see it fail......so future marks chasers won't make the same mistake.


If it is within the rules, it is within the rules. A set up like this is no better and no worse, than:
* The team tactics occasionally used by Kenyans
* The set up of endless discus competitions for Sylvester, Van Reenen, Bruch etc
* The use of rabbits

aaronk wrote:Finally, I'll be rooting for Goucher and Hastings because, while they ran a bit sub-par at USATF, their PR's are, respectively, 30:55.16 and 31:10.69..........about a minute or more faster than Hasay or Erdmann have ever run!!
At their best, they'd be close to lapping Hasay and Erdmann!!

Selection is about delivering today and not dreaming about yesterday. When it mattered Goucher and Hastings failed to deliver. And now their only chance is to hope that someone else will fail. Just as well you are not running the selection process for USATF. You'd probably select Shalane Flanagan and Deena Drossin. I think they were both faster than Goucher and Hastings.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:45 pm

"(Tell me what's wrong with that plan? That's what they did for a few laps at USATF!!)"

I think there's a big difference between trading pulls for a few laps with other moving and highly motivated runners on the track during a national championship 10,000m, and two elite neophytes trying to solo time trial their way to a time fewer than 30 women worldwide and only two Americans have run in the past year.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:58 pm

dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.


Where, among a slew of other academic honors and top grade-point averages, she twice won the NCAA's Academic All American Award for T&F and XC and was the Pac-12 Scholar-Athlete of the Year. There are a few schools in the Pac-12 with decent reps, even if you don't think Oregon is one of them.
Last edited by ExCoastRanger on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby TN1965 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:08 pm

Tuariki wrote:Selection is about delivering today and not dreaming about yesterday. When it mattered Goucher and Hastings failed to deliver. And now their only chance is to hope that someone else will fail. Just as well you are not running the selection process for USATF. You'd probably select Shalane Flanagan and Deena Drossin. I think they were both faster than Goucher and Hastings.


Of course, you'd also select Flanagan since she beat everyone in Des Moines by half a lap, going solo for most of the race. :)
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:19 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:
dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.


Where, among a slew of other academic honors and top grade-point averages, she twice won the NCAA's Academic All American Award for T&F and XC and was the Pac-12 Scholar-Athlete of the Year. There are a few schools in the Pac-12 with decent reps, even if you don't think Oregon is one of them.


Getting a high GPA at a crappy school is fairly meaningless. I'll take almost anybody on the Stanford team over that, thanks, and plenty of others. Kori Carter and her teammates are no dummies and own some NCAA outdoor titles. All of those awards are political BS anyway.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:26 pm

Yes, and you know it is a crappy school and you know her academic background before going to Oregon was also crappy. Why don't you take your assumptions and quit foisting them on us when you do not know enough about her absolute level of performance. Why do you persist in devaluing your reputation on this board for no real apparent reason. You have not shown us your credentials, so I will assume in their absence that they are not on par with basic Oregon student levels, much less a stellar student.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:36 pm

dustoff wrote: Getting a high GPA at a crappy school is fairly meaningless. I'll take almost anybody on the Stanford team over that, thanks, and plenty of others. Kori Carter and her teammates are no dummies and own some NCAA outdoor titles. All of those awards are political BS anyway.


Well she won her Academic AAs over everybody on the Stanford team (where she could have thrived academically if she so chose), not to mention Cal, UCLA, SC in the Pac-12 and everybody else that ran track and xc in the NCAA. Please show evidence of "political BS" if you're really going to stand by it.
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