Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)


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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:14 pm

aaronk wrote:Chris Nickinson of RunnerSpace is now tweeting that Hasay will run Sunday, and "Tara later in the week"......no specific day given!!
And no reason given either!!
He says the rest of the meet (supposedly NOT Erdmann's 10K!!!) will still happen Monday night!!

Stay tuned!! :?

ADD: I tweeted Chris Nickinson about what he said, asking if Erdmann was sick.
He tweeted back....."No idea. At this point I don't care. The shenanigans of time trial have left me disinterested."

SOMEone.......SOON......needs to send out a DETAILED account of what's going on!!
This is getting ridiculous.....and I'm dead serious!!

(Before you attack me, this "confusion" is all over Twitterville and RunnerSpace forum....and probably other sites too!! It needs to be cleared up!!)

I'm with Nickinson. Who really cares about a time trial jack-up for 2 athletes attempting to gain a start in a race where they will almost certainly end up being lapped- and maybe struggling not to get lapped twice.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:32 pm

THIS BS of changing everything is the reason from day one at Nationals I cried foul. I knew this would happen with the date, the time. Qualifying should only be allowed in same sex events in pre-set meets with sanctions.

Interestingly the weather forecast is actually now showing a very warm Sunday eve with a high of 94 and a temp of 76 at 10:30 with a low that night of 70 so even if he waits until 4 in the morning its going to be warm. Monday about the same as is most of next week.



To get a sanction USATF's bylaws state the following:
meets must get an international sanction when meet has 5 or more foreign athletes which I understand this meet will likely have. It also mentions for international sanctions doping control has to be provided for. I checked the sanction and its for July 15-19 so anything held on the 14th is not valid unless they got that changed 2 weeks in advance and just didn't make the change on the website. For the competition to be valid it specificies all the certified officials needed or the competition is considered invalid. I am certain they have some certified officials in tow but will they have the requisite judges and will they warn the men running with Hasay that they are in violation of the rule I cite below that is still forbidden by the IAAF. Somehow Alberto got some bad advice and its all going to blow up in his face rather than just have said lets find an existing meet in Europe and lets do this. It certainly just adds to his reputation as doing nefarious crap and Nike really should be ashamed to have links to it with him and their athletes. Certainlny there are at least 10-12 other women world wide seeking such a meet and would have shown in Amsterdam area where Nike has its Euro HQ or in NOP unis and its just bad for the sport.

For those into the actual rules of competition there is all of this which by my reading means that pacing is not allowed at all even if the race is mixed which is in the spirit of what the IAAF has always stated.
Then while IAAF rules may allow men and women in the same race it does CLEARLY say this in the USATF rule book: 3. The following shall be considered assistance:
(a) Pacing in running or walking events by persons not participating in the event,
by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, or by any kind of technical
device other than those permitted under Rule 144.3i. Someone who is in the race is only in it to pace is not thus in the competition especially males in the female race. Clearly USATF has rules already in place to prevent this sort of travesty from taking place but people are either looking the other way or just shrugging and saying I don't want to fight God Almighty Nike.

additionally this: In a track event, any competitor competing to lose or to coach another
competitor shall forfeit the right to be in the competition and shall
be disqualified.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:33 pm

A little down it says: Any athlete giving or receiving assistance during any event other than
permitted in Rule 144.3 must be cautioned by the Referee and warned that
for any repetition, he or she will be disqualified from that event. If such
disqualification occurs, any performance accomplished up to that time in the
same event session shall not be considered valid. Performances accomplished
in any previous event session, such as a qualifying round, shall stand.

Performances achieved in mixed events between male and female participants
(see Rule 147) will only be accepted under the following circumstances:
o For all field events and races of 5000m and over held completely in the
stadium the results will be:
 Automatically accepted if achieved at National Permit competitions
 Accepted only with the Area Association's approval if achieved at
competitions under IAAF Rule 1.1 (i) and (j)
 Never accepted if achieved at competitions conducted under IAAF
Rule 1.1 (a) to (h)
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:00 pm

ValleyRunner......
I'm tending now to agree with you.
I WAS excited about this run.
I love time trials, marks chasing distance races.
BUT.....
as soon as they announced it would be a mixed race, I got turned off.
Like you said, they should have....and could have....found some meet in Europe....maybe in northern Europe where it might be cooler......and run their needed Q's......in an all-female race.

Hate to say this, but right now, I'm hoping this whole thing blows up in their faces...and Hastings and Goucher get to go!!
This is a F--King FARCE!!!!!

BUT......I'll be watching via Flotrack!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby James Fields » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:57 am

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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:34 am

One change seems to be due to the IAAF not being necessarily satisfied for the fix to the track on the Monday meet.

I suggest that those who think it is a fraud to just not bother having someone checking off a box necessary to compete. To get bent out of shape because they want to have a 10,000m race that is not run in hot weather seems to be the height of unnecessary pique. Let us imagine a sprinter with one race allowed to obtain a 100m time and they set up the race to run in to a 1.5mps wind. Would you think it stupid to change the direction?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:44 am

This is a mockery of performance standards, especially when there is already an athlete that has the standard and didn't do so under some crazy scenario.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:04 am

So, is it a mockery of performance standards when they get 15 distance runners in a paceline 5000m run? Are all of those marathon world records a mockery; that is a much bigger issue, because those are records rather then just a metric to determine what set of competitors will be allowed into a meet? The IAAF has set guidelines; anything that meets those guidelines is not a mockery but a response to the incentives.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:15 am

26mi235 wrote:So, is it a mockery of performance standards when they get 15 distance runners in a paceline 5000m run? Are all of those marathon world records a mockery; that is a much bigger issue, because those are records rather then just a metric to determine what set of competitors will be allowed into a meet? The IAAF has set guidelines; anything that meets those guidelines is not a mockery but a response to the incentives.


It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

I am not saying it is against any rules. I think it is against the spirit of things and incredibly silly. Hell, why stop here? Why not do it for every non-lane female race?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby tandfman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:58 am

dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:48 am

tandfman wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,


Let's see......

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!
Ryan Hill ran 13:14.22 for his "A".........in an all-male race!!

Yes, both races had pacers!
McGee's race had a FEMALE pacer.
Hill's race had a MALE pacer!!

As I said a few weeks ago, Salazar could have recruited one or two WOMEN to pace Hasay and Erdmann through the first 5K in 15:50 or so.
If not his own Treniere Moser, then surely he could have asked another woman if she wanted a good sturdy workout....and he'd even pay her transportation/hotel/food, if necessary!!

Just saying!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby effable » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:54 am

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!"


I believe this gives her the "B", which still puts her on the team.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:13 pm

aaronk wrote:
tandfman wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,


Let's see......

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!
Ryan Hill ran 13:14.22 for his "A".........in an all-male race!!

Yes, both races had pacers!
McGee's race had a FEMALE pacer.
Hill's race had a MALE pacer!!

As I said a few weeks ago, Salazar could have recruited one or two WOMEN to pace Hasay and Erdmann through the first 5K in 15:50 or so.
If not his own Treniere Moser, then surely he could have asked another woman if she wanted a good sturdy workout....and he'd even pay her transportation/hotel/food, if necessary!!

Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:25 pm

booond wrote:
aaronk wrote:
tandfman wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is a mockery to have a mixed gender race specifically for the purpose of getting 1(or 2) girls through in a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

Hasay ran a 32:06.64 in April. By doing so, I think she proved herself perfectly capable of running 32:05.00 in July.

I, for one, do not fault her for using such pacesetting as is permitted by the rules in order to increase the likelihood of her actually doing what she has shown she is capable of doing,


Let's see......

Cory McGee ran 4:06.67 for her "A".......in an all-female race!
Ryan Hill ran 13:14.22 for his "A".........in an all-male race!!

Yes, both races had pacers!
McGee's race had a FEMALE pacer.
Hill's race had a MALE pacer!!

As I said a few weeks ago, Salazar could have recruited one or two WOMEN to pace Hasay and Erdmann through the first 5K in 15:50 or so.
If not his own Treniere Moser, then surely he could have asked another woman if she wanted a good sturdy workout....and he'd even pay her transportation/hotel/food, if necessary!!

Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:26 pm

In the rules it clearly says if you are not in the same event then you can not be involved in pacing. Men are a SEPARATE EVENT from the women in the 10,000. This is where Salazar is still going to get called on when the IAAF view the video and rule the performance null and void. Read the rule I posted. Says athletes even in the same competition meaning of the same sex can't slow down and when lapped then run with the faster runner.

Also what happens tomorrow night when the temp is still a little too tough on Jordan and about 5k she is at 16:11 and realizes I can't hold anything close? Is she going to drop out as Alberto has promised her a 2nd chance in a few days before the deadline.

This whole thing is just absurd. Even if it is allowed to stand which I sincerely doubt (where is Bob Hersh when you need him?) The USATF is clearly embarrassed by this but the silence is due to Nike forcing this down their throat. If Hasay were a Brooks athlete there would be no chance in hell this happens.

I know for a fact there will be a protest filed if she gets the standard and based on the rules as I read them there is no way her mark will stand up being contested. Like aaronk said as well, we are doing this to allow hew to get lapped a couple times at the Worlds and finish well back why?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby tm71 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:35 pm

I agree that this is a farce and I would prefer USATF use the USOT rules for all qualifying meets in the future. If u don't have the needed standard by the end of the USATF or USOT meet then u isn't make the team. Period. And these farsical races won't happen ever again !
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby TN1965 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:44 pm

If you think this is a farce, blame the people who set up the rules, not the ones who are taking advantage of the stupid rules.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:48 pm

Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??


I get it, you're against the mixed genders except when you're not. Makes perfect sense except that it doesn't.

The men in the race only assure that the pace will be to Hasay's liking. They don't assure Hasay will run the correct time. Do you understand that Hasay still has to run the race?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby tandfman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:55 pm

tm71 wrote:I agree that this is a farce and I would prefer USATF use the USOT rules for all qualifying meets in the future. If u don't have the needed standard by the end of the USATF or USOT meet then u isn't make the team. Period. And these farsical races won't happen ever again !

They had to do that last year because the entry deadline for the Olympics was something like a day or two after the trials. The entry deadline for this year permitted chasing by anyone who finished in the top 4 in the Nationals. I think that's reasonable.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bushop » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:26 pm

dustoff wrote:... a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

When did this happen?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:27 pm

Newest news.

Tara Erdmann's 10K will be run on July 19th at Jesuit HS at 9:30 p.m. Pacific time.
Although they (Portland Track) say the time (not the date!) is "tentative"!!

Stay tuned! :roll:
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:41 pm

aaronk wrote:
booond wrote:What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??

OMG. You are such a hypocrite.
You love to pontificate that records must be set within "ethical standards" except when "your" young girls set a record outside of those "ethical standards". Eg, Cayla Hatton.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby CookyMonzta » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:44 pm

booond wrote:
Just saying!!


What are you saying?

Both made the team using pacers; Hasay/Erdman will attempt the same. If your issue is a mixed race then I assume you want all Mary Cain's HS records erased as she didn't set the records against HS girls in HS-only races. Cain benefited with having run against professionals. Or are you trying to have it both ways?


Nope, Cain ran her race against GIRLS.....not a guy in sight!!
Whether they were pro's or collegiates or high schoolers had no bearing!!

It's the mixed GENDER thing I'm against.
Although, admittedly, I'm good with Cayla Hatton having run her 33:17 a year ago in a mixed gender race!!
But that wasn't a race set up just for her to run a fast time.
This is!!

And the marathon is a whole other thing.
But even there, it's better if a woman can run fast running against other WOMEN.....than with guys!!

So having a pacer isn't bad per se....it's that the pacer(s) are going to be MEN!!
Besides, if Hasay needs guys to pace her.....what's she going to do in Moscow??
Ask the officials to let Galen jump in as her personal pacemaker??


I get it, you're against the mixed genders except when you're not. Makes perfect sense except that it doesn't.

The men in the race only assure that the pace will be to Hasay's liking. They don't assure Hasay will run the correct time. Do you understand that Hasay still has to run the race?

And yet, that is still illegal in any elite meet, let alone a World or Olympic championship. Unless it's a marathon (the only exception they make, because the race is so long that the relevance of male pacemakers becomes almost infinitesimal, which is not the case in a 10K or anything shorter than a half-marathon), I think the IAAF will be very tempted to raise a red flag on this. Why is it that Loa Olafsson's 1978 track performances were bounced from consideration as WRs?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:00 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
I get it, you're against the mixed genders except when you're not. Makes perfect sense except that it doesn't.

The men in the race only assure that the pace will be to Hasay's liking. They don't assure Hasay will run the correct time. Do you understand that Hasay still has to run the race?

And yet, that is still illegal in any elite meet, let alone a World or Olympic championship. Unless it's a marathon (the only exception they make, because the race is so long that the relevance of male pacemakers becomes almost infinitesimal, which is not the case in a 10K or anything shorter than a half-marathon), I think the IAAF will be very tempted to raise a red flag on this. Why is it that Loa Olafsson's 1978 track performances were bounced from consideration as WRs?


Is it illegal in this situation? Do you think Salazar would run Hasay in a situation that would get overturned by IAAF lawyers? The problem with your thinking about pacemakers is that they will assure Hasay runs faster than she is capable. They don't. She can only run as fast as she can... funny how our bodies are like that. No matter how many times I race Bolt I can only run as fast as my legs will carry me not as fast as his.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby CookyMonzta » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:03 pm

booond wrote:Is it illegal in this situation? Do you think Salazar would run Hasay in a situation that would get overturned by IAAF lawyers?

A good chance the answer will be yes, as far as the IAAF possibly ruling the performance illegal is concerned.

What is the IAAF rule (if there is a rule) concerning women's qualifying standards and performances achieved on the track in races with male pacesetters?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:47 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:And yet, that is still illegal in any elite meet, let alone a World or Olympic championship. Unless it's a marathon (the only exception they make, because the race is so long that the relevance of male pacemakers becomes almost infinitesimal, which is not the case in a 10K or anything shorter than a half-marathon), I think the IAAF will be very tempted to raise a red flag on this. Why is it that Loa Olafsson's 1978 track performances were bounced from consideration as WRs?


The rules for having WRs ratified and qualifying for a meet can be different. They also may have changed over the last 35 years as well.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:48 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
booond wrote:Is it illegal in this situation? Do you think Salazar would run Hasay in a situation that would get overturned by IAAF lawyers?

A good chance the answer will be yes, as far as the IAAF possibly ruling the performance illegal is concerned.

What is the IAAF rule (if there is a rule) concerning women's qualifying standards and performances achieved on the track in races with male pacesetters?


Answer below.
Last edited by Dutra5 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby valleyrunner » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:53 pm

One rule that should be in place is that its a real competition. An event in which only one female is a participant is not a competition so I think that is critical point here. There is no competition here. By thus allowing this in the future others will do the same time and again and the sport will become a joke! I actually believe by the end of the year at the convention for USATF as well as the IAAF congress there will be rules changes put in place to stop this as many at the high end of the sport are aghast and angry this is taking place and feel powerless at the moment to stop it because they are not properly reading the rulebook. If they properly read it then they would read that those not in the event can't pace and men and women are not participating in the same event - they are in separate events being contested at the same time. Like a marathon.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:54 pm

It is addressed:

However, mixed stadium competition in Field Events and in races of 5000m or longer may be permitted in all competitions except those held under Rules 1.1(a) to (h). In the case of competitions held under Rules 1.1(i) and (j) such mixed competition shall be allowed in a particular competition if specifically permitted by the relevant Area governing body.


Rule 1 addresses International competitions and does not apply. So there's the answer. The competition can be a mixed gender event.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:10 pm

bushop wrote:
dustoff wrote:... a specific time that they have proven incapable of achieving in any sort of race without perfect pace-making and wind breaking.

When did this happen?


I agree, the complaints really are out of touch with reality. Hasay is a collegian. Let us look at how many real opportunities she had to set and qualifying mark. She ran the first two 10,000s of her life in the spring, just missing the B in her first real attempt at the distance (the first race was designed just to get her a feel for the distance). Then, her racing opportunities were entirely comprised of: the Pac-12 champs; the very hot Regional race (where no one was going to get the A short of Dibaba-class runners in humid, 90-degree heat). Then she came back and ran the 5000 and qualified, to everyone's surprise. Then she ran the 5000 at NCAAs (with no chance to run the 10,000). Then, she had the hot race at the Trials where she ran a very credible mark not too much shy of the B. Now, she is running her next race after recovering from her extended peak trying to make the team.

Anyone that really thinks that she has been deficient really ought to crawl under a rock, as far as I am concerned. And, there are some rather knowledgeable posters spotting such things. And none of the runners probably care that people are saying a bunch of foolish things.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:26 pm

bushop wrote:When did this happen?

When did what happen?

They've run more than 1 10k in their lives and this season. They haven't approached the standard and need this comical attempt of having a number of men surround them to block them from the wind and perfectly pace them to achieve it. That is an absolute joke and absurdity.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:29 pm

26mi235 wrote:I agree, the complaints really are out of touch with reality. Hasay is a collegian. Let us look at how many real opportunities she had to set and qualifying mark. She ran the first two 10,000s of her life in the spring, just missing the B in her first real attempt at the distance (the first race was designed just to get her a feel for the distance). Then, her racing opportunities were entirely comprised of: the Pac-12 champs; the very hot Regional race (where no one was going to get the A short of Dibaba-class runners in humid, 90-degree heat). Then she came back and ran the 5000 and qualified, to everyone's surprise. Then she ran the 5000 at NCAAs (with no chance to run the 10,000). Then, she had the hot race at the Trials where she ran a very credible mark not too much shy of the B. Now, she is running her next race after recovering from her extended peak trying to make the team.

Anyone that really thinks that she has been deficient really ought to crawl under a rock, as far as I am concerned. And, there are some rather knowledgeable posters spotting such things. And none of the runners probably care that people are saying a bunch of foolish things.

Then why doesn't she go run a 10k in Europe or under some normal setting? Why run surrounded by a pack of men to give her the perfect pace, perfect lane positioning, block the wind and any potential people from getting in her way, etc.? This is an utter joke and not in the competitive spirit. Why don't we just have male pacemakers in all of the women races? Hell, why stop there, why not have rabbits alternate laps at the appropriate pace to pace entire 5k, 10ks, marathons with loops, etc.?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:33 pm

dustoff wrote:
bushop wrote:When did this happen?

When did what happen?

They've run more than 1 10k in their lives and this season. They haven't approached the standard and need this comical attempt of having a number of men surround them to block them from the wind and perfectly pace them to achieve it. That is an absolute joke and absurdity.


Standard is 32:05 and Hasay has run 32:06... the joke is you don't understand the definition of approaching.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:44 pm

Cool, when she gets lapped in Moscow after this pathetic attempt I'll be happy to eat my crow.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:59 pm

dustoff wrote:
bushop wrote:When did this happen?

When did what happen?

They've run more than 1 10k in their lives and this season. They haven't approached the standard and need this comical attempt of having a number of men surround them to block them from the wind and perfectly pace them to achieve it. That is an absolute joke and absurdity.



Now you are being stupid. You expect a collegiate runner in 90+, humid weather to run the standard? That is about the silliest assumption I have every seen here, it almost is not feasible to do the Q.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 pm

26mi235 wrote:Now you are being stupid. You expect a collegiate runner in 90+, humid weather to run the standard? That is about the silliest assumption I have every seen here, it almost is not feasible to do the Q.


Look, be happy to disagree. That's fine. If the B is so easy for her, I don't see why she needs this abomination of a track race to achieve the standard. It is just my opinion, simple as that.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:44 pm

26mi235 wrote:Now you are being stupid. You expect a collegiate runner in 90+, humid weather to run the standard? That is about the silliest assumption I have every seen here, it almost is not feasible to do the Q.


What is this all about? Are we to have differing standards for Hasay just because she is a US collegian? "silliest assumption" pretty well sums up this reasoning. Being a collegiate runner is completely and totally irrelevant. And I am sure Hasay would agree. She is just another runner trying to maximise her chances of qualifying for the WC.

And good luck to her if she is able to achieve it through her privately organized attempt. If the IAAF rules allow it,then that should be the end of the matter. Like the purists, I would also like to see her achieve the time in a real race against other women. However,the object of the exercise is to meet the qualifying standard. And as a real race against other woman has too many negative risk factors that can't be controlled, it is simply common sense to set up your own "race" to ensure you meet the qualifying standard- if such attempts are allowed by IAAF rules.

And after meeting the standard she can run the 10000 in Moscow, and endorsing what dustoff says she can do her best to make sure she is only lapped once.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby gm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:47 pm

The 10,000 qualifying window opened January 1, 2012.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:56 pm

As I said above, it is very difficult for a collegian to get a qualifying mark. She ran her first real 10,000m race in the early spring and missed the B by less than 2 seconds. Then, she faced the following, none conducive to getting a Q and all making it impossible to run other races: 1) Pac-12 Champs; 2) NCAA Regional in Austin, temp ~90+humid (30C);3) NCAAs had to run the 5000 because she qualified in the 5000 not the 10,000; 4) USATF/Trials in warm weather in Des Moines, where getting the B was a very difficult thing to do. So, after the succession of 5 championship races where it is almost impossible to get the Standard, she then has to recover from that very hard 6 weeks and then try and do the Q.

And, yes, nowhere else in the world is this sequence an issue. [Kenyans and Ethiopeans have their own issues, but rarely is it the case that in the critical 8 weeks it is really not feasible to do the 10,000 qualifying. Some of the posters seem to think of this as a 1500 or a 800 or a sprint, where you get to do many races.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:12 pm

26mi235 wrote:As I said above, it is very difficult for a collegian to get a qualifying mark. She ran her first real 10,000m race in the early spring and missed the B by less than 2 seconds. Then, she faced the following, none conducive to getting a Q and all making it impossible to run other races: 1) Pac-12 Champs; 2) NCAA Regional in Austin, temp ~90+humid (30C);3) NCAAs had to run the 5000 because she qualified in the 5000 not the 10,000; 4) USATF/Trials in warm weather in Des Moines, where getting the B was a very difficult thing to do. So, after the succession of 5 championship races where it is almost impossible to get the Standard, she then has to recover from that very hard 6 weeks and then try and do the Q.

And, yes, nowhere else in the world is this sequence an issue. [Kenyans and Ethiopeans have their own issues, but rarely is it the case that in the critical 8 weeks it is really not feasible to do the 10,000 qualifying. Some of the posters seem to think of this as a 1500 or a 800 or a sprint, where you get to do many races.

Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.
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