Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)


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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby James Fields » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:06 pm

It would have been nice to see Ms. Hasay compete (and win) for USA team in women's 10,000 meter run of the 2013 World University Games this past week at Kazan, Russia.

Ayuko Suzuki of Japan won with 32:54.17, more than a minute shy of the WUG meet record of 31:46.43. by Viorica Ghican of Romania.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:14 pm

Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bushop » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:18 pm

Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.

She (or her coach) chose from what menu of options?
What opportunities did she dismiss/ reject?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:23 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:
aaronk wrote: Why couldn't they do the same in Portland.....have Hasay take a couple of laps, then Erdmann, then back to Hasay, and on and on??


Seriously?


Um....yes!
(Tell me what's wrong with that plan? That's what they did for a few laps at USATF!!)
pickle47 wrote:
aaronk wrote:I'll be watching (on Flotrack), but I'll be rooting for......Amy Hastings and Kara Goucher!!


Hopefully you will be rooting for them for sentimental reasons. It certainly doesn't make sense to root for them because you think they will represent the U.S. better (finish higher) in the WCs. They finished 4th and 5th in Des Moine.


For a couple of reasons.
"Sentimental", yes.
But also because I think this Portland set-up is ridiculous.....and I'd rather see it fail......so future marks chasers won't make the same mistake.
Finally, I'll be rooting for Goucher and Hastings because, while they ran a bit sub-par at USATF, their PR's are, respectively, 30:55.16 and 31:10.69..........about a minute or more faster than Hasay or Erdmann have ever run!!
At their best, they'd be close to lapping Hasay and Erdmann!!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:24 pm

pickle47 wrote:
aaronk wrote:I'll be watching (on Flotrack), but I'll be rooting for......Amy Hastings and Kara Goucher!!


Hopefully you will be rooting for them for sentimental reasons. It certainly doesn't make sense to root for them because you think they will represent the U.S. better (finish higher) in the WCs. They finished 4th and 5th in Des Moine.


With the extra 10,000 which would need to be run, it's possible that this would work in favor of a Hastings/Goucher being better prepared for Moscow. I don't really care who makes the team. The race setup aspect of things seems a bit cheesy but whatever.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:29 pm

bushop wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.

She (or her coach) chose from what menu of options?
What opportunities did she dismiss/ reject?

She chose not to drop out of school and chase 10K races around the US and indeed around the globe.
She chose to race non 10K races for Oregon.
She chose not to go to the WUG and run 10K over there.

IMO she made the right choices but if she had decided the sole focus of her life was to get the 10K Q time she may have made other choices.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby pickle47 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:34 pm

[quote="aaronk]Finally, I'll be rooting for Goucher and Hastings because, while they ran a bit sub-par at USATF, their PR's are, respectively, 30:55.16 and 31:10.69..........about a minute or more faster than Hasay or Erdmann have ever run!!
At their best, they'd be close to lapping Hasay and Erdmann!![/quote]
You should put a couple of dates next to those PRs for context. We are witnessing the ascension of some and the descension of others. And you are generous with your "a bit sub-par". BTW, I would be defending AH and KG if the tables were turned.

Welcome to 21st century track and field. This isn't Jim Ryun running through the cornfields of Kansas anymore.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:42 pm

dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.


Now you are getting to LetsRun nastiness. Do you think that you are smarter than all of the students or faculty at Oregon? Do you really have a clue rather than taking repeated nasty shots at people for no particular reason than.. whatever. Have you compared the quality of the students in the Honors College with those, of, say Wisconsin (which is rated in some places as in the top 15-25 schools)?

Do you really know what you are talking about or are you relying on knowing a bunch in track and field so that people will expect that you know what you are talking about in other areas? As a disclaimer, I taught at Oregon State. What about you?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:45 pm

aaronk wrote:But also because I think this Portland set-up is ridiculous.....and I'd rather see it fail......so future marks chasers won't make the same mistake.


If it is within the rules, it is within the rules. A set up like this is no better and no worse, than:
* The team tactics occasionally used by Kenyans
* The set up of endless discus competitions for Sylvester, Van Reenen, Bruch etc
* The use of rabbits

aaronk wrote:Finally, I'll be rooting for Goucher and Hastings because, while they ran a bit sub-par at USATF, their PR's are, respectively, 30:55.16 and 31:10.69..........about a minute or more faster than Hasay or Erdmann have ever run!!
At their best, they'd be close to lapping Hasay and Erdmann!!

Selection is about delivering today and not dreaming about yesterday. When it mattered Goucher and Hastings failed to deliver. And now their only chance is to hope that someone else will fail. Just as well you are not running the selection process for USATF. You'd probably select Shalane Flanagan and Deena Drossin. I think they were both faster than Goucher and Hastings.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:45 pm

"(Tell me what's wrong with that plan? That's what they did for a few laps at USATF!!)"

I think there's a big difference between trading pulls for a few laps with other moving and highly motivated runners on the track during a national championship 10,000m, and two elite neophytes trying to solo time trial their way to a time fewer than 30 women worldwide and only two Americans have run in the past year.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:58 pm

dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.


Where, among a slew of other academic honors and top grade-point averages, she twice won the NCAA's Academic All American Award for T&F and XC and was the Pac-12 Scholar-Athlete of the Year. There are a few schools in the Pac-12 with decent reps, even if you don't think Oregon is one of them.
Last edited by ExCoastRanger on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby TN1965 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:08 pm

Tuariki wrote:Selection is about delivering today and not dreaming about yesterday. When it mattered Goucher and Hastings failed to deliver. And now their only chance is to hope that someone else will fail. Just as well you are not running the selection process for USATF. You'd probably select Shalane Flanagan and Deena Drossin. I think they were both faster than Goucher and Hastings.


Of course, you'd also select Flanagan since she beat everyone in Des Moines by half a lap, going solo for most of the race. :)
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:19 pm

ExCoastRanger wrote:
dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon.


Where, among a slew of other academic honors and top grade-point averages, she twice won the NCAA's Academic All American Award for T&F and XC and was the Pac-12 Scholar-Athlete of the Year. There are a few schools in the Pac-12 with decent reps, even if you don't think Oregon is one of them.


Getting a high GPA at a crappy school is fairly meaningless. I'll take almost anybody on the Stanford team over that, thanks, and plenty of others. Kori Carter and her teammates are no dummies and own some NCAA outdoor titles. All of those awards are political BS anyway.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:26 pm

Yes, and you know it is a crappy school and you know her academic background before going to Oregon was also crappy. Why don't you take your assumptions and quit foisting them on us when you do not know enough about her absolute level of performance. Why do you persist in devaluing your reputation on this board for no real apparent reason. You have not shown us your credentials, so I will assume in their absence that they are not on par with basic Oregon student levels, much less a stellar student.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:36 pm

dustoff wrote: Getting a high GPA at a crappy school is fairly meaningless. I'll take almost anybody on the Stanford team over that, thanks, and plenty of others. Kori Carter and her teammates are no dummies and own some NCAA outdoor titles. All of those awards are political BS anyway.


Well she won her Academic AAs over everybody on the Stanford team (where she could have thrived academically if she so chose), not to mention Cal, UCLA, SC in the Pac-12 and everybody else that ran track and xc in the NCAA. Please show evidence of "political BS" if you're really going to stand by it.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:40 pm

Ex, don't you see that you made a mistake. The thing to do is to go to an easy school and be fairly good so that you look like you are a star; that is why the SEC kids win this award every year... :lol:
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:26 pm

TN1965 wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Selection is about delivering today and not dreaming about yesterday. When it mattered Goucher and Hastings failed to deliver. And now their only chance is to hope that someone else will fail. Just as well you are not running the selection process for USATF. You'd probably select Shalane Flanagan and Deena Drossin. I think they were both faster than Goucher and Hastings.


Of course, you'd also select Flanagan since she beat everyone in Des Moines by half a lap, going solo for most of the race. :)

Ok. I've cleaned up the egg from my face. :oops: :oops: I was so intent on showing up aaronk with better "older" athletes I forgot that Flanagan had won the USATF.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:55 am

ExCoastRanger wrote:Well she won her Academic AAs over everybody on the Stanford team (where she could have thrived academically if she so chose), not to mention Cal, UCLA, SC in the Pac-12 and everybody else that ran track and xc in the NCAA. Please show evidence of "political BS" if you're really going to stand by it.


It's not based on actual academic rigor. She is a fucking business major from Oregon. Are you really going to compare that to pre-meds and engineers from Stanford?

You guys are beyond delusional.

Fact is, she has had a year and a half to get the standard and needs some BS joke of a race to qualify for another race that she will likely get lapped twice in.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby aaronk » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:00 am

dustoff wrote:
ExCoastRanger wrote:Well she won her Academic AAs over everybody on the Stanford team (where she could have thrived academically if she so chose), not to mention Cal, UCLA, SC in the Pac-12 and everybody else that ran track and xc in the NCAA. Please show evidence of "political BS" if you're really going to stand by it.


It's not based on actual academic rigor. She is a fucking business major from Oregon. Are you really going to compare that to pre-meds and engineers from Stanford?

You guys are beyond delusional.

Fact is, she has had a year and a half to get the standard and needs some BS joke of a race to qualify for another race that she will likely get lapped twice in.


Agree......except about getting lapped twice.

If Dibaba runs "only" 30:20 or so, Hasay would get lapped ONCE.......unless she has a REALLY bad day....like in Austin.

But if Dibaba chases the WR.......runs in the mid-29's......THEN she'd get lapped twice (IF she runs 32:00!!). :)
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby pickle47 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:06 am

Is it any wonder that athletes don't read these message boards?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Daisy » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:28 am

dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon

When I look through their biology faculty it's like an all-star list including a Nobel prize winner. What makes this school so bad in your mind?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby dustoff » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:41 am

Daisy wrote:
dustoff wrote:Highest level of education? lol cmon guys. She went to Oregon

When I look through their biology faculty it's like an all-star listed including a Nobel prize winner. What makes this school so bad in your mind?


Did she study biology under that researcher? Plenty of schools have Nobel prize winners--many have multiple.

Oregon is ranked well into the 100s as a school because they have very poor standards. They would be in the bottom half of the SEC academically. From their professors, to the curriculum, to the student body. It is just exceptionally.... average to below average.

She studied business. Nothing wrong with that, but it is absolutely comical to act like she went to school for academics or had the rigors of a STEM student at any school, particularly a Stanford.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Daisy » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:56 am

Did Oregon reject your application? You're dragging an academically sound school through the mud for no particularly good reason that I can determine. And worse, attacking an individuals intelligence with no evidence other than your pet theories.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bushop » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:30 am

Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.
Tuariki wrote:She chose not to drop out of school and chase 10K races around the US and indeed around the globe.
How many 10k races in the US went sub-32:05?
Who's funding her travel and training once she's out of the NCAA system?

Tuariki wrote:She chose to race non 10K races for Oregon.
How many NCAA 10ks went 32:05? Hasay blew her chance at the Payton Jordan Invitational by not staying with Betsy Saina and her 31:37. So it follows that if one does not run the time in her one shot she's done.

Tuariki wrote:She chose not to go to the WUG and run 10K over there.
Seems like a race where Ayuko Suzuki won with a 32:54.17 would not have produced a 32:05?

Tuariki wrote:IMO she made the right choices but if she had decided the sole focus of her life was to get the 10K Q time she may have made other choices.
So it's too much to ask for an athlete to "[make] the right choices" and be able to race at the top levels?

If we want our sport to survive we have to recognize there are few competitive chances in the US and make adjustments accordingly.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:39 am

bushop wrote:
Tuariki wrote:Hasay chose her running environment. She chose to run other events. One then has to live with the consequences of one's choices.
Tuariki wrote:She chose not to drop out of school and chase 10K races around the US and indeed around the globe.
How many 10k races in the US went sub-32:05?
Who's funding her travel and training once she's out of the NCAA system?

Tuariki wrote:She chose to race non 10K races for Oregon.
How many NCAA 10ks went 32:05? Hasay blew her chance at the Payton Jordan Invitational by not staying with Betsy Saina and her 31:37. So it follows that if one does not run the time in her one shot she's done.

Tuariki wrote:She chose not to go to the WUG and run 10K over there.
Seems like a race where Ayuko Suzuki won with a 32:54.17 would not have produced a 32:05?

Tuariki wrote:IMO she made the right choices but if she had decided the sole focus of her life was to get the 10K Q time she may have made other choices.
So it's too much to ask for an athlete to "[make] the right choices" and be able to race at the top levels?

If we want our sport to survive we have to recognize there are few competitive chances in the US and make adjustments accordingly.

I guess at the end of the day Hasay is a good runner but not a world class runner and therefore it probably makes vey little difference where and when she runs her 10K races. However the commitments of running for Oregon would limit her opportunities.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:55 am

dustoff wrote:
ExCoastRanger wrote:Well she won her Academic AAs over everybody on the Stanford team (where she could have thrived academically if she so chose), not to mention Cal, UCLA, SC in the Pac-12 and everybody else that ran track and xc in the NCAA. Please show evidence of "political BS" if you're really going to stand by it.


It's not based on actual academic rigor. [Really? You know this; it is not just GPA] She is a fucking business major from Oregon. Are you really going to compare that to pre-meds and engineers from Stanford? [and yes, I know pre-meds and engineers from Stanford (I am married to one)]

You guys are beyond delusional.

Fact is, she has had a year and a half [yes, there are a lot of quality 10,000s every month of the year] to get the standard and needs some BS joke of a race to qualify for another race that she will likely get lapped twice in.


I think what bothers me most is this notion that if the athlete is not currently a good threat to medal at the WC/OG that they do not matter. I thought that this was a sport; why the hell do you not want to see people compete to the best your their ability.

I think that she will make it moot by qualifying tonight, but of course you will only have derogatory things to say.

She did not run the 10,000 until this spring, and you know it. Making irrelevant statements about the window does not change anything. Point out exactly when she would have had a great opportunity to qualify; you have ignored that question in your invective.

Do you know how they pick the Academic All Americans? Also, I think she was the top student at a very selective private high school; she has more horsepower than you seem to imply (and could have gone to Stanford, sans athletics).
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Brian » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:31 pm

Not making any judgments on the meet situation. Not a big fan of time-trials, but do acknowledge this as unique.

Just want to point out that recovery is everything, especially in a 25-lap race, and even more so for females.

With this in mind, the optimal path to ensuring as complete a recovery as possible before the championship itself is to run a qualifying time as easily as possible, including controlling the factors that may cause greater outside stress beyond the actual running itself. This includes travel--even to a differing time zone, much less halfway across the world. Also, sleeping in your own bed, eating your usual diet, etc.--all things best accomplished by staying as close to home as possible beforehand.

Salazar's duty is to his runners: To first get them there, and then to ensure they are as ready to go as possible once they are at the line.

And this is pretty much all that matters to Salazar (or any other good coach): To provide his runners with the best chance to go to the line at the World Championships as fresh and recovered as possible and ready to excel while representing their country--either to medal or, in the case of a young runner like Hasay, to simply have a good effort, the better to gain experience for the next time, by staying as close to the lead pack for as long as possible instead of being dropped immediately.

That's his job. Nothing else matters.
.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby booond » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:43 pm

Tuariki wrote:I guess at the end of the day Hasay is a good runner but not a world class runner and therefore it probably makes vey little difference where and when she runs her 10K races. However the commitments of running for Oregon would limit her opportunities.


Out of curiosity, where is the line you draw between "good" and "world class?" Also, is there a tier between them or does one take a step up from "good" to "world class?"
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby BCBaroo » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:17 pm

Thank good ness - for this meet. I need something positive to focus on...besides the "positives". Go girls! Run your hearts out!!! A, A!
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Tuariki » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:52 pm

booond wrote:
Tuariki wrote:I guess at the end of the day Hasay is a good runner but not a world class runner and therefore it probably makes vey little difference where and when she runs her 10K races. However the commitments of running for Oregon would limit her opportunities.


Out of curiosity, where is the line you draw between "good" and "world class?" Also, is there a tier between them or does one take a step up from "good" to "world class?"


I guess the line between "good" and "world class" is in the eye of the beholder. 32:06 is clearly a very good 10K time. However, I believe world class is in the vicinity of 31:100. According to the IAAF 68 athletes have run faster than 31:00.

However,as the A standard is 31:45 perhaps that should be the defining line for world class.

I should also say that IMO Hasay is very good - not just good.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby DrJay » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:35 pm

Might some of you who are watching the race post occasional splits for those of us too cheap to sign up for Flotrack? Muchas gracias.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby DrJay » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:10 pm

Nevermind, had the time zone difference backwards. Thought "8:30" MDT, not 10:30. I'll check the results in the a.m.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Bob Duncan » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:42 pm

Well, I see at least two people in the stadium right now, with nothing really happening. However, Flotrack is playing some pretty catchy music on their feed! (Still have 50 minutes to go)
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Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bobguild76 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:46 pm

pickle47 wrote:Is it any wonder that athletes don't read these message boards?

My sentiments exactly! I love the back and forth about whether Hasay and/or Erdmann will make the A or B standard. I, for one, hope they both make it ... but the round and round about their GPA & quality of education vs Stanford or any other University is silly. The relevant issues are;

1. Are they breaking any rules? NO.
2. Will the race be IAAF compliant? YES.
3. End of story.

I don't think they much care what we think about the quality of their education, any more than they care about the quality of our education. This is an opportunity for them to go to the World Championships, fer cryin' out loud. We can speculate and cojutate and spindilate and blovulate till the cows come home about whether we think they should, but it's their choice, not ours, and they ain't breaking any rules.

No one is arguing that they will be medal threats. So what? They have a chance to qualify for the WC, and the opportunity to step on the track with Dibaba & Co, and experience the best our sport has to offer. If one or both make the team, I'll be rooting for them to run well in Moscow. If they don't, I'll root for whoever takes their place(s), and wish them continued improvement.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Samurai_Runner » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:23 pm

It's unfortunate that there are haters who wish to put down the athletes who we should be supporting. I applaud Salazar for doing everything he can (legally) to help his athletes EARN the opportunity to compete on the US team. It's not like it is being handed to them or they are cheating. Also, this selection process allows athletes who earned their placings (top 3) to be selected. Look at last year, when the "A" qualifiers knew they would be selected, no matter where they placed, and the 2nd placer (Natosha Rogers) was left home.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bobguild76 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:25 pm

I have great video on FloTrack, but no audio. Yes ... I checked all my audio levels, but no joy. Anyone else in the same boat?
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby Bob Duncan » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:30 pm

Same here, no sound. Frustrating! :(
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Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bobguild76 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:31 pm

Ugh! :(
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bruce3404 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:36 pm

Please do keep us posted, Bob and Bob. Would be nice to know splits if you can see or hear them.
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Re: Portland Roughriders Twilight--July 15 (19?)

Postby bobguild76 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:37 pm

Yea! Sound just came on. But no Erdmann until later in the week. Go Jordan!

The race is now scheduled to begin at 9:45 local.
bobguild76
 
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