World Youth Championship


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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Brian » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:28 pm

aaronk wrote:Raevyn Rogers ran 2:03.32, which, except for Mary Cain, is the fastest HS 800 of the year, indoors or out.....



Couldn't help but notice it could have been written "Raevyn Rogers ran 2:02.32, the second-fastest HS 800 of the year, indoors or out....."

[Just for the record, this is what some of us were talking about on other threads.]
.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Master Po » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:30 pm

17 USA medals is good. As noted, there are different ways of considering whether a nation did well, or not.

Here's another way -- more particular -- that illustrates how USA did well & not well at all at this edition of WYC. Just focused on distance events, in part because that's the place where I would typically expect USA youth athletes to have the least impact, but also I focus here because (as readers of even a fraction of aaronk's posts will know :) ) USA prep distance running is doing well these days. So, USA's distance athletes at WYC:
boys
800
Robert Ford -- didn't advance past opening round qualifying heat
no second entrant

1500
Blake Haney -- 5th, PB of ~ 6 seconds.
Grant Fisher -- PB in qual heat; 9th in final. Even had he run another PB in the final -- unless it was a huge one -- he still would have finished 9th; did as well as could be expected in this meet.

3k
no entrants

2k St
Bailey Roth -- PB in qual heat; 7th in final. Like Fisher, even had he run another PB in the final -- unless huge -- he would have finished 7th; did as well as could be expected.
no second entrant

girls
800
Raevyn Rogers -- bronze medal, ~2 second PB
Ersula Farrow -- PB in SF; 8th in final. Great to make the final.

1500
Alexa Ephraimson -- bronze medal, .07 from her PB. Even had she run a PB -- unless a big one -- she still would have finished 3rd.
Anna Maxwell -- 9th in final, in a ~2 sec PB. Good to make the final.

3k
no entrants

2k st
no entrants

8 athletes: 7 PBs & 2 medals (most I hoped was 1 -- I thought Ephraimson had a shot at the medal she earned). We could say that only Robert Ford "underperformed" (though I don't feel like criticizing the kid for it) -- thought he could make SF, but didn't.

An excellent outcome for these 8 athletes. That's the good side. Bad side: What disappoints me is all of the "no entrant(s)". We could have had 16 athletes in these 8 events, but we couldn't find a way to make this opportunity to participate in WYC feasible or attractive enough to several other of our up & coming prep distance runners to get 8 more athletes to this meet. This is not a criticism of our rising young distance athletes, among whom I am sure there were 8 more who might have made this trip. (& no, Mary Cain's presence would not have solved this. Let's leave her in peace for a little while. :wink: :roll: ) Obviously, you can't make someone compete if they don't want to, or can't go, but we should be able to make it possible, feasible, attractive, so that we send a full complement of entrants, or at least get closer than half to a full complement of athletes in these events. USATF comes in for a lot of deserved criticism, and I am inclined to criticize USATF here, too, but I don't have enough specifics to do so. I don't really know what the problem here is, but this was a missed developmental opportunity & experience for 8 athletes.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:48 pm

This meet is six weeks after the end of the season in the US. That is not the case elsewhere (although In Jamaica the high school season is rather early, of course).
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Tuariki » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:01 pm

Brian wrote:
aaronk wrote:Raevyn Rogers ran 2:03.32, which, except for Mary Cain, is the fastest HS 800 of the year, indoors or out.....



Couldn't help but notice it could have been written "Raevyn Rogers ran 2:02.32, the second-fastest HS 800 of the year, indoors or out....."

[Just for the record, this is what some of us were talking about on other threads.]
.

When you are fanatically obsessed, almost stalker like, there was no chance that Raevyn Rogers was going to be congratulated by Aaronk for her fantastic run without the deliberate attempt to downgrade her achievement in comparison to Saint Mary.

Mary Cain is a wonderful athlete and I am sure Aaronk would not be too happy if we prefaced Mary's performances with factual statements such as "Mary Cain ran xx.xx, which except for 20 other girls is the fastest junior time in history" or "Mary Cain ran xx.xx, which except for 2 other girls is the fastest youth time in history".

We should enjoy Mary Cain for what she has achieved, as I am sure we all do, without downgrading the achievement by an accompanying "by the way others have done better". And likewise with Raevyn.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:46 am

On another note: I was looking at the videos on the home page. The had the girls TJ and LJ. It looked like all of the girls had shortish Step phases, which is not uncommon, even if it is non-optimal. However, the winner looked to have a Step that was less than 3 meters, may be not even 2.5. In fact, in the first replay in the video, a frame or so is missed, and you miss the entire Step phase.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Rothosen » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:29 am

Perhaps my expectations are too high. Zero individual gold medals by boys, one by girls.
Germany with one quarter the population recieved half as many total medals. Probably expected. Our youths concentrate on Basketball, Football, Baseball and Track. Theirs concentrate on Soccer and Track. Going in I knew we were not getting many Golds. We did not have many top times or distances.

Can't think of any who didn't go thst would have changed this. Cranny at best would have gotten third instead of Ephraimson. Cain of course had the chance for a Gold in the 3000 but that has already been covered ad nauseum.

Yes 17 medals is nice. But with a population nearly a third of a billion, better nutrition then a lot of the planet, better facilities, and supposedly better coaching I would have thought more then one person would have been the best in the world.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Rothosen » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:36 am

P.s. I think all who went did exceedingly well.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby eldanielfire » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:16 am

mump boy wrote:
bushop wrote:
aaronk wrote:I'm sorry she had such a bad 2nd day, but not finishing (unless she was physically injured) was wrong.

... and you make a moral judgement about her action based on what information?


Common sense !!

What ever the morality of it, it does no good to anyone to drop out because things aren't going your way

I have no idea of her reasons so can't comment but if she wasn't injured it was the wrong decision in my opinion. If she's fallen over in the hurdles then fair enough but to not do the last event, not so much.


She started day 2, according to the British Athletics website report, suffering from stomach cramps and nausea!! Which explains why she went from outstanding 1st day, even for her, to nothing. Makes no sense to push through and potentially cause an injury, she's only a girl who has just turned 16.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:27 am

But character development demands that she compete to the end. :mrgreen:, :lol: [And, it was shameful that Carter did not run the 400h Final]. Look, how many football stars compete while having the 'flu'. [I personally think that no more than 10%, if that, actually have influenza, including probably none of that that have the (non0existant) 'stomach flu'.]
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby norunner » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:38 am

Rothosen wrote:Perhaps my expectations are too high. Zero individual gold medals by boys, one by girls.
Germany with one quarter the population recieved half as many total medals. Probably expected. Our youths concentrate on Basketball, Football, Baseball and Track. Theirs concentrate on Soccer and Track. Going in I knew we were not getting many Golds. We did not have many top times or distances.
I think at that age it's more about raw talent than coaching. Good coaching comes in later, that's where the US excels. For example in the 200m girls final, there were two american and two german girls. Fast forward five years into the future, chances that Ariana Washington or Hannah Cuncliffe run a 22.4 are pretty good, the chances of Gina Lückenkemper or Lisa Mayer running that time are practically zero. And generally, U18 results mean very little, look at the U18 world lists from 5 years ago and see how many of the names you even recognise. Of all the U18 world leaders from 2008 Kirani James is probably the only one who won an olympic medal.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Tuariki » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:45 am

norunner wrote:For example in the 200m girls final, there were two american and two german girls. Fast forward five years into the future, chances that Ariana Washington or Hannah Cuncliffe run a 22.4 are pretty good, the chances of Gina Lückenkemper or Lisa Mayer running that time are practically zero.

I would be interested if you could explain your logic on this.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby norunner » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:11 pm

Tuariki wrote:
norunner wrote:For example in the 200m girls final, there were two american and two german girls. Fast forward five years into the future, chances that Ariana Washington or Hannah Cuncliffe run a 22.4 are pretty good, the chances of Gina Lückenkemper or Lisa Mayer running that time are practically zero.

I would be interested if you could explain your logic on this.
The last time a german woman ran 22.4 or faster was in 1999, the last time a german woman ran below 22.9 was in 2001. So obviously there is something wrong with our sprint coaching, because those numbers are just pathetic. The US on the other hand seems to have an abundance of good sprinting coaches and if you compare Washington's and Huncliffe's times to some of the young american sprinters at that age, Duncan, Scott, they are already faster than many of them.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:15 pm

norunner wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
norunner wrote:For example in the 200m girls final, there were two american and two german girls. Fast forward five years into the future, chances that Ariana Washington or Hannah Cuncliffe run a 22.4 are pretty good, the chances of Gina Lückenkemper or Lisa Mayer running that time are practically zero.

I would be interested if you could explain your logic on this.
... So obviously there is something wrong with our sprint coaching, because those numbers are just pathetic...

I NEVER thought you would ever admit that. :shock:
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:38 pm

batonless relay wrote:
norunner wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
norunner wrote:For example in the 200m girls final, there were two american and two german girls. Fast forward five years into the future, chances that Ariana Washington or Hannah Cuncliffe run a 22.4 are pretty good, the chances of Gina Lückenkemper or Lisa Mayer running that time are practically zero.

I would be interested if you could explain your logic on this.
... So obviously there is something wrong with our sprint coaching, because those numbers are just pathetic...

I NEVER thought you would ever admit that. :shock:


Can they ship us one of the (female) Triple Jump coaches? :D [of course, this championship had nice good news in that department; can she transition to 14-low now?]
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:46 pm

26mi235 wrote:Can they ship us one of the (female) Triple Jump coaches? :D [of course, this championship had nice good news in that department; can she transition to 14-low now?]

God no! Their wTJ are as bad as the USA. GER = Throws (maybe PV). The standard is no longer 14-low, it's moved, it's now 14.40 - that's the A-standard minimum. Surely a country with the
"participation" rates of the US should expect the highest standards.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby norunner » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:49 pm

26mi235 wrote:Can they ship us one of the (female) Triple Jump coaches? :D [of course, this championship had nice good news in that department; can she transition to 14-low now?]
Thanks for that, really made me laugh. :lol: German triple jumping is a joke, the kid who won a medal in Donezk with 16.02m is currently the third best triple jumper in germany, our no1 managed to jump 16.35! And the women aren't much better.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:08 pm

batonless relay wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Can they ship us one of the (female) Triple Jump coaches? :D [of course, this championship had nice good news in that department; can she transition to 14-low now?]

God no! Their wTJ are as bad as the USA. GER = Throws (maybe PV). The standard is no longer 14-low, it's moved, it's now 14.40 - that's the A-standard minimum. Surely a country with the
"participation" rates of the US should expect the highest standards.


14-low was the next step, as in while still in high school. 14-mid is the college-age step.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby Tuariki » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:55 pm

norunner wrote:
Tuariki wrote:
norunner wrote:For example in the 200m girls final, there were two american and two german girls. Fast forward five years into the future, chances that Ariana Washington or Hannah Cuncliffe run a 22.4 are pretty good, the chances of Gina Lückenkemper or Lisa Mayer running that time are practically zero.

I would be interested if you could explain your logic on this.
The last time a german woman ran 22.4 or faster was in 1999, the last time a german woman ran below 22.9 was in 2001. So obviously there is something wrong with our sprint coaching, because those numbers are just pathetic. The US on the other hand seems to have an abundance of good sprinting coaches and if you compare Washington's and Huncliffe's times to some of the young american sprinters at that age, Duncan, Scott, they are already faster than many of them.

Doesn't mean Germany can't once again have a world class w200. Depends on the individuals and the talent and determination. prior to 2004 new Zealand was not exactly a hot bed for the shot put. And maybe we still aren't.

But we do have the #1 female plus a couple of good young male shot putters in Jacko and Tom Walsh. I wouldn't write off Gina Lückenkemper or Lisa Mayer just yet.
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Re: World Youth Championship

Postby shivfan » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:11 am

Wow...I just watched the Eurosport highlights, and the Jamaican youngsters have done us proud, especially in the hurdles.

100m hurdles won by Yanique Thompson in 12.94

110m hurdles won by Jaheel Hyde in 13.14

boys 400m hurdles won by Marvin Williams in 50.38

And could our drought in the men's 400m finally come to an end soon?

boys 400m won by Martin Manley in 45.89

And of course, our favourite event...the boys 200m won by Michael O'Hara in 20.65

Add to that victory in the boys medley relay, and that's six gold medal and two bronzes for Jamaica, putting them at the top of the table in terms of gold medals won...well done, boys and girls!
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