¶USATF Dec: Ashton Eaton 8291


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Re: USA Multis

Postby gktrack » Wed May 01, 2013 11:27 pm

olorin, your list got me searching, so here's a few more USA guys born after Eaton with sum of PB's over 8000...

Jack Szmanda (Mar 1990) PB's add to 8064 according to all-athletics, 0 increase so far this year after a poor showing at Mt. SAC, with bests of 7862/5656.

I believe 2011 NCAA Champ, Michael Morrison (Mar 1988), is attempting a comeback, or so this/he says... http://trackmike.wordpress.com/about/
Looks like he's back in the US now after training in Europe. His best scores are 8118/5872. I think he was injured last year, so almost all his PB's came in 2011, adding up to 8218?

Another one might be Michael Ayers (Nov 1988), a graduate of Georgia, but I'm not sure if he's competing anymore?

Source: http://decathlonusa.typepad.com/files/2012-olympic-trials-usa-decathlon.pdf
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 02, 2013 4:22 am

olorin wrote:26mi235 (how should I call you?) - this is sort of "good" news as I thought that Ziemek is out for the season as well.
Zeimek has a sum of PBs of 7793 and this year he improved by 365 points (second behind Scantling). If he will compete this season I think that he has a good chance to increase his sum of PBs above 8,000.


I should know more by the weekend; they have their home meet then (with terrible weather -- high in the 50s and raining. :| :twisted:
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 02, 2013 7:50 am

Piece on Cato:

After setting a PR in the pole vault by clearing 17 feet, 5 3/4 inches -- the best mark in the Big Ten this spring and the second-best outdoor clearance in school history -- Cato missed twice at 17-8 1/2.

"I was getting ready to take my last jump and I was a little tired and fatigued,'' said Cato, adding that his upper body still felt strong and "there was nothing hurting in my lower body.''

Clapping his hands to get the crowd engaged, he admitted, "I was really hyped, pumped up.''But as he began to push off with his right foot to start running, Cato said, "I heard a pop; probably the equivalent of a bigger branch breaking off. Two or three other people heard it, too.''

At first, he thought, "Oh, man, my shoe broke.'' He looked down and saw that his shoe was still intact.

"Then I felt my lower calf roll up,'' he said. "That's what they all talk about when it snaps -- it rolls up. I knew then that it was my Achilles. "I went to the ground but there wasn't much pain. It felt like a 4 on the pain scale. There was a little discomfort but mostly it was just a big, big blow to my heart.''


http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-track/spec-rel/050213aab.html
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Thu May 02, 2013 4:08 pm

gktrack wrote:olorin, your list got me searching, so here's a few more USA guys born after Eaton with sum of PB's over 8000...

Jack Szmanda (Mar 1990) PB's add to 8064 according to all-athletics, 0 increase so far this year after a poor showing at Mt. SAC, with bests of 7862/5656.

I believe 2011 NCAA Champ, Michael Morrison (Mar 1988), is attempting a comeback, or so this/he says... http://trackmike.wordpress.com/about/
Looks like he's back in the US now after training in Europe. His best scores are 8118/5872. I think he was injured last year, so almost all his PB's came in 2011, adding up to 8218?

Another one might be Michael Ayers (Nov 1988), a graduate of Georgia, but I'm not sure if he's competing anymore?

Source: http://decathlonusa.typepad.com/files/2012-olympic-trials-usa-decathlon.pdf

gktrack -
Thanks for the corrections.
Re Szmanda - you are right, I had a mistake in one of his PBs. Since he is in 11th place lets treat my list as top ten.
Re Morris & Ayers - I thought that both are now retire. According to all-athletics they compete only once in 2013. If they will compete more regularly I will add them to the list in the next update.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby gh » Thu May 02, 2013 4:31 pm

I talked to Morrison at the OT last year (or maybe it was Pre); as I recall he took the year off to recuparate from surgery of some sort.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 02, 2013 8:17 pm

Ziemek is listed for the 110h, LJ and PV at the Wisconsin Open, this Saturday, so it must not have been much wrong for him. Cato had surgery today on his Achilles. Unfortunately, the meet is going to have some light rain and highs in the mid-60s (just upgraded from the 50s!) -- not the great weather of last year.

Ziemek did not vault but ran 15.04/0.1 in the 110h; a PR by 0.40, and which gives him a PR total of 8004 points (using indoor and outdoor marks).
Last edited by 26mi235 on Sat May 04, 2013 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby harvtrack » Fri May 03, 2013 3:51 am

Am still wondering what is up with Gunnar Nixon. Apparently he won't compete anymore for Arkansas despite having 3 years of eligibility left. Headed "pro" or to another school? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby user4 » Fri May 03, 2013 6:09 am

harvtrack wrote:Am still wondering what is up with Gunnar Nixon. Apparently he won't compete anymore for Arkansas despite having 3 years of eligibility left. Headed "pro" or to another school? Inquiring minds want to know.


Is this the new normal for athletes winning even mere indoor national titles ?
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Re: USA Multis

Postby bambam » Sat May 04, 2013 10:15 am

harvtrack wrote:Am still wondering what is up with Gunnar Nixon. Apparently he won't compete anymore for Arkansas despite having 3 years of eligibility left. Headed "pro" or to another school? Inquiring minds want to know.


I got some info on this the other day from a good source. Apparently Nixon did not get along with the Arkansas coaches.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby lonewolf » Sat May 04, 2013 6:24 pm

Since we are weighing in with hearsay re Gunnar Nixon, an Arkansas insider told me Nixon's academic problems resulted from never attending and, consequently flunking, a class in which a coach enrolled him without his knowledge....
Dunno how that can happen.. :?
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Sat May 04, 2013 7:07 pm

In Pack 12 conference Taiwo is leading Dakota Keys by almost 200 points. Oddly, is worse performances so far are in his strong suit the jumps (7.18 & 2.09) when he lost probably more than 200 points on his best form.

1 Taiwo, Jeremy.......4200...10.95 7.18m 13.57m 2.09m 48.56
Washington
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Keys, Dakotah........4030....10.94 7.18m 12.70m 2.09m 51.14
Oregon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Fajoyomi, Viktor.....4025....11.33 7.40m 12.63m 2.06m 49.83
Usc

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Giovannoni, Dominic.3992 ..11.07 6.91m 13.82m 2.00m 49.57
Ucla
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Taiwo PB in the decathlon is 7,742 (700 less than his sum of PBs!). Lately, he had problems with his DT and JT (his PBs are 42 & 53 wereas his SBs are 37.5 & 42.5). Will need to improve if he is to challenge in the NCAA
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Sun May 05, 2013 3:23 am

26mi235 wrote:Ziemek is listed for the 110h, LJ and PV at the Wisconsin Open, this Saturday, so it must not have been much wrong for him.

Ziemek did not vault but ran 15.04/0.1 in the 110h; a PR by 0.40, and which gives him a PR total of 8004 points (using indoor and outdoor marks).


I have the following marks as Ziemek's PB:
10.77, 722, 13.11, 206, 50.8, 15.04, 44.45, 540, 55.83, 5:19.93 (sum 7850)
Can you please tell me if I got one (or more) of his PBs wrong (wouldn't be the first time)
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 05, 2013 8:59 am

Based on his 2:48 1000 in a Hept and the fact that he does not do that off of great 400 speed I have him as about 5:00; I was realized in that 8004 I had used a filled in from an estimate (50) of what he might do and had not gotten in his actual 400 PR (51.52). So, even using a 5:00 1500 it only comes to 7035. Given that he killed his 100 PR with that 10.77, I think he will probably improve that 400. He also has the potential to take his LJ and 110h times down based on that 10.77 speed and the ability to take speed down the PV runway (witness the rapid improvement to 5.40), although he already just went from 15.44 to 15.04 in the 110h.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby Fortius19 » Sun May 05, 2013 9:06 am

Johannes Hock , FR, Texas, had a good score this last Fri/Sat of 8293, setting Big 12 record.

He can throw too! 15.40/53.85/63.63

Anyone know anything about him? Is he one of those 25 yo Swedes?

Is he going to get CR?
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 05, 2013 9:09 am

He is a German who looks to have had one year off out of high school, where they graduate a year older than the US. Thus, about a junior or red-shirt sophomore by US standards.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby gktrack » Sun May 05, 2013 12:12 pm

olorin wrote:In Pack 12... 1 Taiwo, Jeremy.......4200...10.95 7.18m 13.57m 2.09m 48.56 ...
Taiwo PB in the decathlon is 7,742 (700 less than his sum of PBs!). Lately, he had problems with his DT and JT (his PBs are 42 & 53 wereas his SBs are 37.5 & 42.5). Will need to improve if he is to challenge in the NCAA

Decent start for Taiwo in Day 2... 14.74 in the 110H and 40.75/133-8 in the discus, but will need to perform relatively well over the last 3 events to break 8000 points
Add: Still near 8000 pace after 8 events... within a few inches of his PR in the PV, going 4.80/15-9. I have no idea what kinda 1500m shape he's in though, or how hard he'll run it with likely a nice lead in the competition at that point?
After 9 events: well, Taiwo's lost his lead... only 48.34/158-7 for Taiwo's JT, while Keys ties PR in PV, then PR's by 2.53 meters in his JT (66.81/219-02), that's 4 PR's this meet for Keys. It's now Keys over Taiwo, 7228 to 7174, into the 1500 where Taiwo is better on paper.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby gktrack » Sun May 05, 2013 3:59 pm

Great finish in Pac12 Multis... Keys with another PR in the 1500 scores 8001. Taiwo in second with a fine 4:18.23, scoring 7998.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby unclezadok » Sun May 05, 2013 4:07 pm

Keys must be the first to make 8000 with a 51 second 400m and a 117 DT. The 400m is hard to figure, since he was a good 300H in high school. Probably just doesn't have the feel of it yet.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby aaronk » Sun May 05, 2013 4:15 pm

gktrack wrote:Great finish in Pac12 Multis... Keys with another PR in the 1500 scores 8001. Taiwo in second with a fine 4:18.23, scoring 7998.


Wow!
How many multi's....on any level....have been decided by just 3 points.....especially in a come-from-behind victory??
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 05, 2013 5:41 pm

aaronk wrote:
gktrack wrote:Great finish in Pac12 Multis... Keys with another PR in the 1500 scores 8001. Taiwo in second with a fine 4:18.23, scoring 7998.


Wow!
How many multi's....on any level....have been decided by just 3 points.....especially in a come-from-behind victory??


At the Big Ten Indoor the last time that the women were in Madison they had a tie in the Pent. As I recall the Competition Handbook called for breaking the tie by a comparison of the head-to-head placing (i.e., who had the best in at least three of the five events).
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Re: USA Multis

Postby unclezadok » Mon May 06, 2013 5:58 am

In the 1976 Olympic pentathlon the top 3 finishers had scores of 4745, 4745, 4740. According to The Complete Book of the Olympics, by Wallechinsky and Loucky, Siegrin Sigl won gold over Christine Laser on the basis of higher head-to-head finishes.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby aaronk » Mon May 06, 2013 9:13 am

The NCAA Dec is promising to be maybe the best....or at least the most competitive....event of the meet.
Never before have there been two guys at 8200+.....followed by 2 more at 8000+, then another at 7998, and 2 or 3 more at 7800+.
And who knows how many more will reach those levels in the next week or two!
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:44 am

With Cato out and some questions about Taiwo, it is not so good at the top as it might be. It is exciting with the emergence of so many young guys and the return of Taiwo. It is also made more interesting with a diversity across athletes in terms of their strong events.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby Fortius19 » Mon May 06, 2013 4:02 pm

26mi235 wrote:He is a German who looks to have had one year off out of high school, where they graduate a year older than the US. Thus, about a junior or red-shirt sophomore by US standards.


Thanks for that! (how do you guys find out this stuff? :) )


Anyone know if AE is going to do a full Deca at Nats? The recent formchart suggests that he won't want to do a LJ the day after the Deca ends. If he's doing Gotzis and Worlds, will he want to do a full third one this year?

sorry if this has already been covered.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby gktrack » Mon May 06, 2013 5:23 pm

Fortius19 wrote:Anyone know if AE is going to do a full Deca at Nats? The recent formchart suggests that he won't want to do a LJ the day after the Deca ends. If he's doing Gotzis and Worlds, will he want to do a full third one this year?

sorry if this has already been covered.

I was under the assumption that Eaton has to compete at the US Champs. What if 3 other guys (other than wild-card Hardee) have/get their A and finish ahead of Eaton, he wouldn't go, right? Maybe someone who fully understands all the A/B stuff could simplify the situation here...
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Mon May 06, 2013 6:05 pm

gktrack wrote:
Fortius19 wrote:Anyone know if AE is going to do a full Deca at Nats? The recent formchart suggests that he won't want to do a LJ the day after the Deca ends. If he's doing Gotzis and Worlds, will he want to do a full third one this year?

sorry if this has already been covered.

I was under the assumption that Eaton has to compete at the US Champs. What if 3 other guys (other than wild-card Hardee) have/get their A and finish ahead of Eaton, he wouldn't go, right? Maybe someone who fully understands all the A/B stuff could simplify the situation here...

There is no doubt that Eaton is planning to compete in the US national. Since this is the WC you can send AAB (unlike the Olympics). So if two Americans beside Hardee (and Eaton himself) will score above 8200 and an additional athlete will score above 8000 than Eaton will stay at home.

With Lazas, Nixon, Beach, Taiwo, Moss, Murphy, Horn, Scantling and now Keys all possibilities for the "A" Eaton will be crazy to gamble that only one of them will reach the standard. To illustrate, even if one estimate that each of them have a probability of 10% to get the "A" there is more than 20% probability that Eaton will stay home. If you increase the probability to 20% for each athlete (more realistic in my opinion) then the probability that Eaton will stay home is more than 50%. To make things worse for Eaton in the WC Athletes can chase the mark after the national.

Long story short - unless injured, Eaton will compete in the national.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Mon May 06, 2013 6:19 pm

26mi235 wrote:With Cato out and some questions about Taiwo, it is not so good at the top as it might be. It is exciting with the emergence of so many young guys and the return of Taiwo. It is also made more interesting with a diversity across athletes in terms of their strong events.

Taiwo is probably the biggest question mark (beside Clay). So far this season he is performing very well in individual events but doesn't seem to be able (so far) to bring it all together in the decathlon. In eight of the ten events Taiwo set a PB or is very close to his PB this year (only the 110h and the JT still lagging) . The results of Pac12 illustrate this as he score a PB in the decathlon by more than 250 points and yet did not break any individual PB (I'm quite sure that this is unique - maybe dacfan can verify).
So the big question - is a score of 8000 when you are below par in many events is a good signal as there is a lot of room for improvement or a bad signal as you perform below par.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 6:32 pm

gktrack wrote:
Fortius19 wrote:Anyone know if AE is going to do a full Deca at Nats? The recent formchart suggests that he won't want to do a LJ the day after the Deca ends. If he's doing Gotzis and Worlds, will he want to do a full third one this year?

sorry if this has already been covered.

I was under the assumption that Eaton has to compete at the US Champs. What if 3 other guys (other than wild-card Hardee) have/get their A and finish ahead of Eaton, he wouldn't go, right? Maybe someone who fully understands all the A/B stuff could simplify the situation here...


Even one "B" and two "A"s would keep Eaton at home if they all want to go (plus Hardee)
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 6:35 pm

Fortius19 wrote:
26mi235 wrote:He is a German who looks to have had one year off out of high school, where they graduate a year older than the US. Thus, about a junior or red-shirt sophomore by US standards.


Thanks for that! (how do you guys find out this stuff? :) )


I know this stuff because there are posters on this board like olorin (and several others) that have made those comments on this board recently. There are some really well-informed posters on this board, and in particular there are more than a couple that really pay a lot of attention to the multi events :!: , for which I am grateful :D .
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Re: USA Multis

Postby gktrack » Mon May 06, 2013 6:37 pm

thanks for A/B clarification(s)... seems like there's a lot more decathletes than past US champs, is there a max # of competitors and/or qualifying standard for the US Champs?
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 8:01 pm

The thing that most confuses the issue is the different treatment in the OGs and WCs -- due to different incentives (the IOC wants to diminish the overly large number of competitors at the Games without doing the hard work cutting cutting the 'made for TV' "non-traditional" sports.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Mon May 06, 2013 8:51 pm

gktrack wrote:thanks for A/B clarification(s)... seems like there's a lot more decathletes than past US champs, is there a max # of competitors and/or qualifying standard for the US Champs?

I have to admit that I don't really know. But from looking in the internet these are the qualifying standard for the nationals:
http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/ ... fying.aspx
I assume that the "A" standard is automatic qualification and the "B" is place dependant. (GH??)
In the decathlon the "A" standard is 7850. To date there are 12 athletes that met this standard. They typically try to limit the number of athletes to 16 but last year there were 19 athletes (and 17 in 2011) so I don't think that this is a huge concern.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:04 pm

There are A and B standards for the WCs. The national body can impose their own standards for entry into the Trials; generally these are lower than the WC values, considerably in some weaker events.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Mon May 06, 2013 9:48 pm

26mi235 wrote:There are A and B standards for the WCs. The national body can impose their own standards for entry into the Trials; generally these are lower than the WC values, considerably in some weaker events.

These are also A and B for the national (which are of course lower than the WC standard). The question is whether indeed A is automatic qualifier and B is place dependant?
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Re: USA Multis

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 10:23 pm

I think Bs fill the field, and acceptance is not guaranteed. I am not at all certain that Bs are 'strongly ordered' in that they may take some with lower qualifying times if they see fit -- go to LetsRun for typical gnashing of teeth on this one.
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Re: USA Multis

Postby Fortius19 » Tue May 07, 2013 9:20 am

Thanks for all the explanations.

I guess I thought AE could just show up and LJ only and be on the Deca team, but I guess that's only the guy with the bye. :oops:
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Re: USA Multis

Postby norunner » Tue May 07, 2013 10:55 am

Just read that Hardee, Nixon and Arnold will be in Götzis, that makes it four americans?
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Re: USA Multis

Postby gktrack » Tue May 07, 2013 11:23 am

norunner wrote:Just read that Hardee, Nixon and Arnold will be in Götzis, that makes it four americans?

Thanks - I saw the same on decathlon 2000. Curious if Mike Morrison might compete as well, as he trained in Germany this past winter, if not, I assume he needs a qualifying mark for US Champs after not competing last year? Nothing up on the Gotzis website yet.
http://www.meeting-goetzis.at/en/meeting-2013.htm
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Re: USA Multis

Postby gktrack » Thu May 09, 2013 12:32 am

SEC's coming up today: Lazas, Scantling, Uibo may be going at it...
you can follow results here...
http://branchsportstech.com/2013_Meets/outdoor/05-09-SEC/Multi.htm
they may be showing live video here (not sure if it's free?)...
http://www.mutigers.com/allaccess/?media=386695
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Re: USA Multis

Postby olorin » Thu May 09, 2013 12:47 am

gktrack wrote:SEC's coming up today: Lazas, Scantling, Uibo may be going at it...
you can follow results here...
http://branchsportstech.com/2013_Meets/outdoor/05-09-SEC/Multi.htm
they may be showing live video here...
http://www.mutigers.com/allaccess/?media=386695

And Ziemek and Szmanda probably (26mi235?) competing in the Top Ten in Ohio.
Is this is the last week of heavy competitions before the NCAA finals?
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