USATF TV and Webcast


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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Marlow » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:46 am

toyracer wrote: Ato seems to spend quite a bit of time either correcting him or filling in missing info.

Ato is growing on me. I used to think he was just another sprinter with bluster and bravado, but the dude's getting good!
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby HopStepJump » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:10 am

I think overall the webcast was a mixed bag. It was nice to see much of Thursday's coverage on line since there was no television. Also, I was able to see the early multis events, so that was good. I suppose the race walking fans were pretty happy, too. I enjoyed listening to Godina on the few occasions that he was on.

The field event coverage was dismal. I can kind of give them a pass for the outside events, but the field event coverage was equally bad inside the stadium. It seemed like the producer had never been to a track meet before. As the women's PV was getting to the critical point of deciding who would make the team, they were showing the 1st flight of javelin thowers. There seemed to be no sense of what was significant at the time.

The biggest fiasco, however, has to be the field event results as pointed out by polevaultpower. The webcast is a bonus, but accurate live results are imperative. I hope people are held accountable.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:46 pm

There are many championship meets where the video is running along with the comments of Mr Multi -- Z. I am beginning to simply attach that voice to the event (and why not!). The multis have the advantage that there is little competition for attention and I am itching to get the champs underway. Then the expert comments of decfan et al, kick in on the board and it creates a bit of a community.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby jkhlkjhlkh » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:53 pm

cladthin wrote:
gh wrote:eyes of the beholder department: a letter to the editor I just got (from a longtime follower of the sport)

PROPS TO USATF?

Never in a lifetime of track and field fandom would I ever have visualized writing an endorsement of our governing body but, dang, they sure "got it right" with the implementation of USATF.tv as a medium for following this year's National Championships. I found it to be exceptionally user friendly (even on flash-less i devices) and was truly the next best thing to actually being there. Thank you USATF and huge props...nicely done!


Maybe this person is accustomed to getting their track and field info. via smoke signals and semaphore? I think most are just expecting track and field to be covered on t.v. or online according to the standards of the day-the way other sports are covered and that's not happening.

I think what's exciting as a fan of the sport is that we are reaching a point where the major championships are being archived online in high quality. Potentially, they could be stored there forever. This is a big change from 10 years ago, where if you miss the meet, you missed it. If you missed the 2013 Superbowl, good luck trying to watch it in its entirety.

But if you missed the Women's London Olympic 5000m 2nd Semifinal, just go to youtube and you can see it in 720p quality. Now that the USATF has emulated that type of approach with the finals in their championships, the IAAF is the only one that needs to jump on board. Channel 4 posted some videos from Daegu in 2011, but it would be really great if for Moscow, IAAF posted videos from every event in 720p resolution or higher.

This is a huge improvement in the quality of event coverage from 10 years ago. Try finding the the 2003 USATF 400m national championships anywhere online. In some ways, we are luckier than fans of other sports in regards to our major championships. Especially moving forward if the online trend in coverage continues. I can guarantee you the NFL will never release the old SuperBowls online.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby cladthin » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:20 pm

[/quote]
I think what's exciting as a fan of the sport is that we are reaching a point where the major championships are being archived online in high quality. Potentially, they could be stored there forever. This is a big change from 10 years ago, where if you miss the meet, you missed it. If you missed the 2013 Superbowl, good luck trying to watch it in its entirety.

But if you missed the Women's London Olympic 5000m 2nd Semifinal, just go to youtube and you can see it in 720p quality. Now that the USATF has emulated that type of approach with the finals in their championships, the IAAF is the only one that needs to jump on board. Channel 4 posted some videos from Daegu in 2011, but it would be really great if for Moscow, IAAF posted videos from every event in 720p resolution or higher.

This is a huge improvement in the quality of event coverage from 10 years ago. Try finding the the 2003 USATF 400m national championships anywhere online. In some ways, we are luckier than fans of other sports in regards to our major championships. Especially moving forward if the online trend in coverage continues. I can guarantee you the NFL will never release the old SuperBowls online.[/quote]

While the availability of archived material is nice to have, this thread is about live t.v. and internet coverage and not the accessibility of past meet footage.

I, like most fans, want to see the action live and presented professionally by analysts who know the sport (i.e. not Tom Hammond) and can present a quality product with a minimum of incorrect comments/mis-statements that most of us know is wrong the moment they are said. We have seen a good product and that's when it's done by the likes of Hutchings (yes I know he also works for NBC-a good move on their part), Storey, Matthews/Ovett in the past, Cram, etc.-the Eurosport or BBC versions of track and field productions. That's how it should be done and not as NBC and their associated networks have done it. NBC is not good. Many events-especially the field events-get virtually no coverage. USATF needs to step it up too and give better resources to Godina and O'Brien who attempted (I feel) to make the best of a bad situation.

With reference to your comment about our luck as fans, In many ways, we are not as lucky as fans of other sports who get a quality presentation by knowledgeable, passionate commentators who keep their screw-ups to a minimum. No one expects perfection but we do expect there to be at least the appearance of making an effort which usually it does not. These network screw-ups seem to keep happening and it's the same mistakes. Why do they not learn from these mistakes? Do they not care? It looks like a lot of indifference to me. Tom H. for example does not improve. It's a bad product. They should hire the entire BBC/Eurosport crews and let them do all of our coverage as NBC and ESPN never seem to learn or care. Do you happen to be an employee of USATF or of one of the networks?
Last edited by cladthin on Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby wineturtle » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:27 pm

The fact they are using web casts, subscription (cable), special payment( Universal) and over the air traditional TV is great. We have options never before available.
The next is to get the quality of content improved.
While remembering winning is an important story, there is drama at the three-four position in selection meets(or getting the last Q position in the rounds). We must get the directors to embrace that battle as being as important to the fan as winning. Do not pan after the winners but stay on the line to see that drama unfold. Keep updating the time q bubble each trial heat. Splits as well as elapsed time on screen. We have visuals--- the announcer should be more about supporting what is happening in the race as it unfolds than following the selected "story line'.
Do more stadium announcer type stuff-- splits, who is in what position and positional changes of note. All too often when the expected "storyline" fails to evolve the announcers dwell on that instead of what is at hand. Remind the announcer that just because the mike is in front of him does not mean he must speak into it every moment of the broadcast-we have a picture.
Leave the huffing puffing gasping for breath 36 seconds after the finish interview out of the equation.
...and it would be nice if the announcer gets the name and the athlete matched up correctly.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Alan Shank » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:55 pm

jkhlkjhlkh wrote:To reiterate, if you missed any of the events, USATF is uploading video of EVERY senior men's and women's track final in extremely high quality. You can watch it whenever you want. They seem to be uploading all the heats as well!! This is like a dream come true, The video menu is divided by event on the left side of the screen.

http://www.usatf.tv/gprofile.php?mgroup ... o_id=94313


I checked out the video of the W 3000 SC. Unfortunately, it is exactly the same as what was shown on NBCSN, i.e. with breaks for field events, so you still do not see the entire race. I assume the same is true of the other >1500m events. You see whatever you saw on NBC, with all of its faults.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Bob Duncan » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:50 pm

After gushing about technology a couple of nights ago, it finally bit me in the ass. I recorded yesterday's NBC telecast and made the mistake of using the HD channel, which sometimes "tiles", instead of the regular channel. Damn, I'm glad that I watched the last hour live on my regular channel because when I went back to my copy, it was in bad shape.

Anyone have any links to Sunday's performances, especially the first hour, including the women's 5000? That must have been a good race according to Alan Shank's summary.

I've looked through youtube and as of Monday night, nada. :(
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Alan Shank » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:58 pm

Bob Duncan wrote:After gushing about technology a couple of nights ago, it finally bit me in the ass. I recorded yesterday's NBC telecast and made the mistake of using the HD channel, which sometimes "tiles", instead of the regular channel. Damn, I'm glad that I watched the last hour live on my regular channel because when I went back to my copy, it was in bad shape.

Anyone have any links to Sunday's performances, especially the first hour, including the women's 5000? That must have been a good race according to Alan Shank's summary.

I've looked through youtube and as of Monday night, nada. :(


See the link in my message, right above yours.
Cheers,
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby tm71 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:03 pm

Bob Duncan wrote:After gushing about technology a couple of nights ago, it finally bit me in the ass. I recorded yesterday's NBC telecast and made the mistake of using the HD channel, which sometimes "tiles", instead of the regular channel. Damn, I'm glad that I watched the last hour live on my regular channel because when I went back to my copy, it was in bad shape.

Anyone have any links to Sunday's performances, especially the first hour, including the women's 5000? That must have been a good race according to Alan Shank's summary.

I've looked through youtube and as of Monday night, nada. :(


I don't know of any links but it is on my DVR on regular (non HD) format
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby rsb2 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:16 pm

Alan's link, a few posts ^^^^, is working just fine (thank you). Of the distance events, only the women's 5000 hasn't been posted yet, so I assume it's just a matter of time...oh, wait, place ;)
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Bob Duncan » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:46 pm

Alan Shank wrote:See the link in my message, right above yours.

Thanks...I should've seen that earlier! :)
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby jkhlkjhlkh » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:03 am

They should hire the entire BBC/Eurosport crews and let them do all of our coverage as NBC and ESPN never seem to learn or care.

While I agree the British coverage, especially Eurosport, is sublime, obviously, US track does not have the money or interest from the public to do something like that. But I definitely agree they are head and shoulders above us. If you get a chance, check out BBC's eight hour coverage of the European Team Championships last week. They had Colin, Denise, Cram, and Edwards all there, it was great, great coverage. I think Eurosport has better camerawork than BBC though, I wish they were still in the running for covering major championships. The field events are perfect, but It really bothers me that we don't get more of the close up side view of the runners, so you can really get a feel for how incredibly fast they are moving. And in response to your question, no, I don't work in any field related to track or tv, I think the first guy was joking.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby gh » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:19 pm

has anybody been watching the coverage of the Youth meet(s)? I've heard that it's a vastly improved product over last week's version.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby cladthin » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:02 pm

jkhlkjhlkh wrote:
They should hire the entire BBC/Eurosport crews and let them do all of our coverage as NBC and ESPN never seem to learn or care.

While I agree the British coverage, especially Eurosport, is sublime, obviously, US track does not have the money or interest from the public to do something like that. But I definitely agree they are head and shoulders above us. If you get a chance, check out BBC's eight hour coverage of the European Team Championships last week. They had Colin, Denise, Cram, and Edwards all there, it was great, great coverage. I think Eurosport has better camerawork than BBC though, I wish they were still in the running for covering major championships. The field events are perfect, but It really bothers me that we don't get more of the close up side view of the runners, so you can really get a feel for how incredibly fast they are moving. And in response to your question, no, I don't work in any field related to track or tv, I think the first guy was joking.


I very much doubt USATF does not have the $ to put out a vastly improved product over what they did nor do I believe there is any more interest in the U.K. than in the U.S. for track and field coverage at least in absolute terms.

I did not see the previous post I think you are referring to until just now from the OP. It just seemed you were a bit of cheerleader regarding "dream come true", etc. and in particular since it was such a poor production but you were, as you stated, referring primarily to the archived material.

No question the BBC and Eurosport puts out a superior product.
Last edited by cladthin on Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby athleticshushmail » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:59 pm

gh wrote:has anybody been watching the coverage of the Youth meet(s)? I've heard that it's a vastly improved product over last week's version.

It is really good. Even the heats are covered well. Better than youth coverage in Europe with the exception of the youth olympics.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby TN1965 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:35 pm

wineturtle wrote: While remembering winning is an important story, there is drama at the three-four position in selection meets(or getting the last Q position in the rounds).


A very good example of this was the battle for 3rd in decathlon. Taiwo needed to beat Horn by 20 sec., and it looked very unlikely for the first 2 3/4 laps of 1500m. But then, he made a big surge, while Horn collapsed at the end. It was one of the most dramatic finishes you could ever imagine, and NBC almost completely missed it. They were focusing on only Eaton and Nixon because that was THE script.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:56 pm

TN1965 wrote:
wineturtle wrote: While remembering winning is an important story, there is drama at the three-four position in selection meets(or getting the last Q position in the rounds).


A very good example of this was the battle for 3rd in decathlon. Taiwo needed to beat Horn by 20 sec., and it looked very unlikely for the first 2 3/4 laps of 1500m. But then, he made a big surge, while Horn collapsed at the end. It was one of the most dramatic finishes you could ever imagine, and NBC almost completely missed it. They were focusing on only Eaton and Nixon because that was THE script.


And, in all probability, because they were totally unaware of the situation re 3rd place, let alone able to interpret what was going on in the 1500 between Taiwo and Horn. For the multis, they need Zarnowski.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby gh » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:45 pm

think of every sporting event you might ever watch on TV. How much camera time and commentary does the third placer in the Kentucky Derby get, no matter how exciting? Or the Daytona 500, or in a baseball pennant race even? Bo Roberson once famously said, "Nobody remembers who finished 2nd." Not quite true, but the farther away you get from 1st the less anybody but those with a personal involvement care.

Calling this a fault in track TV coverage is to deny the reality of life.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Marlow » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:58 pm

gh wrote:How much camera time and commentary does the third placer in the Kentucky Derby get, no matter how exciting?

Yeahbut, in an OT or WCT scenario, third place is a much bigger deal. In the Olympics they DO focus on who gets the Bronze too.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby gh » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:01 pm

only when they get to the podium, generally speaking.

(and it's no different with in-stadium announcing much of the time)
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:35 pm

gh wrote:think of every sporting event you might ever watch on TV. How much camera time and commentary does the third placer in the Kentucky Derby get, no matter how exciting? Or the Daytona 500, or in a baseball pennant race even? Bo Roberson once famously said, "Nobody remembers who finished 2nd." Not quite true, but the farther away you get from 1st the less anybody but those with a personal involvement care.

Calling this a fault in track TV coverage is to deny the reality of life.


I don't think those comparisons are valid. The 3rd placer in the Kentucky Derby does not make the national team for the World Horse-Racing Championships. If the 3rd place team in the NBA is making the playoffs, that gets serious attention.

In the situation under discussion, the 3rd and 4th were battling for a spot on the WC team. Any knowledgeable fan watching would want to be informed about it. It IS a fault of TV coverage that the commentators are ignorant, because they are not giving out important information that track & field fans are interested in.

In Oly, WC, Euros, etc., getting a medal of any color is a major achievement, especially when somebody from the US gets a medal in an event we don't usually do well in (e.g. Jill Camarena-Williams in Daegu).
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby DecFan » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:17 pm

Alan Shank wrote:
And, in all probability, because they were totally unaware of the situation re 3rd place, let alone able to interpret what was going on in the 1500 between Taiwo and Horn. For the multis, they need Zarnowski.

Or they need to have an unpaid intern monitor this board and feed them the information which is freely available before most every major decathlon 1500 worldwide.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby gh » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:04 pm

sorry, you guys just don't get the reality of mass-media coverage. My advice, much as you'll hate it, is quit bitching and accept what you get with good grace.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:41 pm

gh wrote:sorry, you guys just don't get the reality of mass-media coverage. My advice, much as you'll hate it, is quit bitching and accept what you get with good grace.


The perfect formula for "More of the Same"!

Why should we quit bitching? Bitching is responsible for most of the improvements that have taken place in world history! >:-)

This is like telling people trying to get fair wages, "Hey, just be glad you have a job!"

Why settle for crap? I enjoy seeing the meets, but I'm far from satisfied. Other countries get much better coverage than we do; we want better, too.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby gh » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:45 pm

the problem here is that what you consider reasonable bitching is more equivalent to a guy walking around in sack cloth with a sign that says "the end is near." Sometimes you just need to recite the serenity prayer and realize that you're so far away from reality that it's pointless.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:00 pm

gh wrote:sorry, you guys just don't get the reality of mass-media coverage. My advice, much as you'll hate it, is quit bitching and accept what you get with good grace.


A lot of drama on the selection of the NCAA Tourney teams and not too much of it is focused on the top seed, which is often pretty much known. Yes, the situation is different because everyone is looking to see where 'their' team goes, but it is not for first, it is qualifying.
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Re: USATF TV and Webcast

Postby TN1965 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:02 pm

If I am not mistaken, neither Felix nor Tarmoh won the 100 in the last year's trial. So only those who were personally involved should have cared... :wink:

And I know next to nothing about horse racing, but isn't it rather important who finishes 2nd and 3rd? A "place" bet allows you to win money if your horse finishes in top two or three.
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