Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans


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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Wed May 08, 2013 12:28 pm

kamikaze7 wrote:The whole basketball & football are taking the best athletes does not wash especially when you consider that USA is a wealthy nation with a massive land area, with 300 million plus population and all kinds of sponsorships, scholarships, facilities, coaches, doctors, incentives. ..................


300 million? Yes, if you count all of the Swedish, Indian, Pakistani, Mexican, etc. :roll:

I think we have gone down this silly road before.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Grasshopper » Wed May 08, 2013 12:29 pm

user4 wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:The whole basketball & football are taking the best athletes does not wash especially when you consider that USA is a wealthy nation with a massive land area, with 300 million plus population and all kinds of sponsorships, scholarships, facilities, coaches, doctors, incentives. ..................


I have to agree with kamikaze, to blame the NFL and NBA for recent US sprint fortunes seems ludicrous. Im pretty sure that during the peak of US standing in the sprints there was just as much if not more of an allure from the NFL/NBA. And I did not see Greene make that argument either.

The youth sports culture in the USA was a lot different in the 80's/90's then it is today, and I don't believe Greene has much involvement with youth sports to be familiar with the influences, pressures, and enticements today's youth are facing while making decisions about their sports focus. I can't speak for the entire country, but I know that the majority of my youth coaching colleagues here on the west coast have shared experiences and observations of the top athletes being allured into full-time participation in football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, soccer, etc. at the expense of T&F. Many of today's top high school football and basketball players have never even tried T&F outside of PE class, and I doubt that was the case 20 years ago.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby user4 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:33 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:The whole basketball & football are taking the best athletes does not wash especially when you consider that USA is a wealthy nation with a massive land area, with 300 million plus population and all kinds of sponsorships, scholarships, facilities, coaches, doctors, incentives. ..................


300 million? Yes, if you count all of the Swedish, Indian, Pakistani, Mexican, etc. :roll:

I think we have gone down this silly road before.


yes that road has been gone down for 100 years as the US has filled the ranks of the professional ball sports, NFL, MLB and NBA for all of those decades and always was able to win sprint titles at the same time. That road is well traveled as T&F has never amounted to a fly on the tail those 3 sports.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Grasshopper » Wed May 08, 2013 12:36 pm

user4 wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:The whole basketball & football are taking the best athletes does not wash especially when you consider that USA is a wealthy nation with a massive land area, with 300 million plus population and all kinds of sponsorships, scholarships, facilities, coaches, doctors, incentives. ..................

300 million? Yes, if you count all of the Swedish, Indian, Pakistani, Mexican, etc. :roll:
I think we have gone down this silly road before.

yes that road has been gone down for 90 years as the US has filled the ranks of the NFL, MLB and NBA for all of those decades and always was able to win sprint titles at the same time. That road is well traveled.

Try comparing the size and participation (and scholarship opportunities) of NCAA football over the past 90 years instead of the NFL. That's where the real issue lays.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby user4 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:41 pm

Grasshopper wrote:
user4 wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:The whole basketball & football are taking the best athletes does not wash especially when you consider that USA is a wealthy nation with a massive land area, with 300 million plus population and all kinds of sponsorships, scholarships, facilities, coaches, doctors, incentives. ..................

300 million? Yes, if you count all of the Swedish, Indian, Pakistani, Mexican, etc. :roll:
I think we have gone down this silly road before.

yes that road has been gone down for 90 years as the US has filled the ranks of the NFL, MLB and NBA for all of those decades and always was able to win sprint titles at the same time. That road is well traveled.

Try comparing the size and participation (and scholarship opportunities) of NCAA football over the past 90 years instead of the NFL. That's where the real issue lays.


try comparing the ratio of NCAA football scholarships to T&F scholarships over the years. Besides it works both ways as football/basketball/baseball scholarships led to great dashmen finding the track. Consider 1960, Dave Sime and Otis Davis. Those two are good examples because if you look at their lives in total you see a drive and motivation to be the best they could be.

I agree with Greene's theory, there is a lack of inspiration and motivation leading to a diminished work ethic in the US, many potential talents just slipping through the cracks and taking the path of least resistance. I suspect the Jamaicans are much more motivated.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Grasshopper » Wed May 08, 2013 12:54 pm

user4 wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:
user4 wrote:yes that road has been gone down for 90 years as the US has filled the ranks of the NFL, MLB and NBA for all of those decades and always was able to win sprint titles at the same time. That road is well traveled.

Try comparing the size and participation (and scholarship opportunities) of NCAA football over the past 90 years instead of the NFL. That's where the real issue lays.


try comparing the ratio of NCAA football scholarships to T&F scholarships over the years. Besides it works both ways as football/basketball/baseball scholarships led to great dashmen finding the track. Consider 1960, Dave Sime and Otis Davis. Those two are good examples because if you look at their lives in total you see a drive and motivation to be the best they could be.

I agree with Greene's theory, there is a lack of inspiration and motivation leading to a diminished work ethic in the US, many potential talents just slipping through the cracks and taking the path of least resistance. I suspect the Jamaicans are much more motivated.

You're assuming that if Sime or Davis were playing in today's NCAA their coaches would allow them to step foot on the track. Unlikely.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Grasshopper » Wed May 08, 2013 1:08 pm

user4 wrote:try comparing the ratio of NCAA football scholarships to T&F scholarships over the years.

I don't have the data in front of me, but I'm pretty confident that the number of football scholarships has risen much farther and faster than the number of T&F scholarships, which are actually on the decline right now due to the number of schools dropping men's T&F as a sport in order to balance out their Title IX compliance with their football programs. Also, what percentage of those T&F scholarships 20-30 years ago were going to foreign athletes as compared to in today's NCAA?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby user4 » Wed May 08, 2013 1:14 pm

Grasshopper wrote:
user4 wrote:try comparing the ratio of NCAA football scholarships to T&F scholarships over the years.

I don't have the data in front of me, but I'm pretty confident that the number of football scholarships has risen much farther and faster than the number of T&F scholarships, which are actually on the decline right now due to the number of schools dropping men's T&F as a sport in order to balance out their Title IX compliance with their football programs. Also, what percentage of those T&F scholarships 20-30 years ago were going to foreign athletes as compared to in today's NCAA?


While I dont buy your idea that NCAA football is desiccating the track fields I have marveled over the years at how generous US state universities are in granting various benefits to foreign students when very talented in-state runners go without scholarship. Some states are presently going so far as to grant illegal aliens in-state tuition rates that they do not grant to American citizens from other states or even a border state. Stranger than fiction. Such trends can not help the morale of US student-athletes.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby gh » Wed May 08, 2013 1:33 pm

maybe it has always been true, but my take on today (albeit from afar) is that a significant number of kids would rather be football failures than track stars.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby norunner » Wed May 08, 2013 1:49 pm

I don't know much about the whole NCAA system, but isn't the whole sports scholarship system the main reason why the US still has so many great T&F athletes? I don't know any european countries where young sports talents basically pay for their education with their talent. Without scholarships how many young T&F talents would be able to compete at all? So when blaming the NCAA for all the talents it sends to the NFL/NBA, aren't you blaming the system that helps bring out the remaining talents? And without the NCAA wouldn't there be a lot less great american T&F athletes simply because they couldn't afford the sport?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby user4 » Wed May 08, 2013 1:53 pm

I think that is right and so has it been, so it will be. And the Jamaicans have not always ruled the sprints, this is a particular time for them, and they have had to contend with countless other distractions and a few other sports pressing on their athletes .
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Wed May 08, 2013 2:03 pm

user4 wrote:I think that is right and so has it been, so it will be. And the Jamaicans have not always ruled the sprints, this is a particular time for them, and they have had to contend with countless other distractions and a few other sports pressing on their athletes .


Other sports? Really like what, except cricket, that pay anything?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby gh » Wed May 08, 2013 2:05 pm

norunner wrote:I don't know much about the whole NCAA system, but isn't the whole sports scholarship system the main reason why the US still has so many great T&F athletes? I don't know any european countries where young sports talents basically pay for their education with their talent. Without scholarships how many young T&F talents would be able to compete at all? So when blaming the NCAA for all the talents it sends to the NFL/NBA, aren't you blaming the system that helps bring out the remaining talents? And without the NCAA wouldn't there be a lot less great american T&F athletes simply because they couldn't afford the sport?


but I'm not blaming the NCAA for sending talent elsewhere. The people who chose that route made the decision when they were in high school.

And the concern is more for those who make the decision early in high school and never even give track a look anymore. That has definitely changed mightily.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Wed May 08, 2013 2:07 pm

norunner wrote:I don't know much about the whole NCAA system, but isn't the whole sports scholarship system the main reason why the US still has so many great T&F athletes?


On the men's side there are so few scholarships divided among the athletes that no one goes into track for the benefits. And track coaches are at the whims of football coaches letting their best sprinters out of spring football to run track.

It is lot different than it use to be.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby lonewolf » Wed May 08, 2013 2:31 pm

Conor Dary wrote:[ track coaches are at the whims of football coaches letting their best sprinters out of spring football to run track. It is lot different than it use to be.


Boy is it! My Okla A&M track coach, Ralph Higgins, favorite tale was about taking the OAMC backfield, Including All American Bob Fenimore, to West Point, circa 1944-45, and defeating the Army backfield, including Blanchard and Davis, in the 440 relay..
And, Fenimore won the 100 y over the field.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby TDB » Wed May 08, 2013 9:12 pm

NFL has a lot of speed no doubt, but are there really that many guys in the NFL faster than Trindon Holiday or Jeff Dempse. I mean we're not just talking about speed here, we're talking about surpassing Jamaica. Who in the NFL do you think could have legitimately run 9.5/9.4 if they only would have run track instead?
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby gh » Wed May 08, 2013 9:25 pm

NFL goes beyond poaching sprint talent; it's also about (and probably moreso, considering somatotypes) long jumpers and hurdlers. Plus putters and discus throwers.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby shivfan » Wed May 08, 2013 10:20 pm

"It's hard for American sprinting now, and I say it all the time that America has been lucky to always have the success that we have had and to always have a group of young athletes coming up. Now the time has changed where this new era of athletes is not the same," said Greene, a former 100m world record holder, Olympic 100m champion and World Championships 100m and 200m champion. "Especially in America, the athletes expect it to come a lot easier than it is, and that's wrong. They never see all the hard work that we put into it, they just saw us performing and people loving us and I think that's what's wrong with US sprinting today."

Interesting....
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby kamikaze7 » Thu May 09, 2013 4:52 am

Conor Dary wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:.


300 million? Yes, if you count all of the Swedish, Indian, Pakistani, Mexican, etc. :roll:

I think we have gone down this silly road before.


Just try and engage your brain just a little bit more. Higher population creates all kinds of opportunities for scholarships, sponsorships, TV revenue not to mention more coaches, qualified doctors physios etc as I mentioned above. To put it plainly, having a huge population offers USA a significant advantage. The reason there are over 100 division one schools and several division two schools is precisely because the USA has such as huge population that it needs so many universities. This in turn provides scholarship opportunities for athletes. Jamaica with a population of 2m has far fewer opportunities. The possibility of scholarships keeps athletes motivated and thus fewer are lost to lack of motivation compared to Jamaica.

And even with the number of scholarships reduced, elite sprinters still have plenty of opportunities for track.

The point is that the USA has such huge advantages over Jamaica that its bogus to point at basketball and football as the reason the USA is loosing to Jamaica. If you start going down the road of such excuses, I am certain that anyone can mention 10 aspects where the US has huge advantages over Jamaica. We haven't even mentioned the fact that good Jamaican coaches often leave Jamaica for better offers at American colleges. Or the fact that because it has such a high emigration rate. Jamaica looses many of its best athletes at a young age or even before think Sanya, Linford, Inger, Donovan Bailey, Cydonie, Collin Jackson, Kelly Holmes, Derick Atkins, Jessica Ennis..............We havent even mentioned that poverty is far more more prevalent in Jamaica and is a hindrance to athletic development............I could go on forever regarding advantages the US has over virtually every other country talk less of Jamaica.

One can say that the US is loosing elite athletes to football. But using it as the reason Jamaica is better does not wash because the US still has huge advantages. And how many elite athletes have actually been lost to football. Jacoby Ford, Jeffery Demps and who else ? You can make the case that the issue is being overblown. With few exceptions, the fastest football players will struggle to beat Carmelita Jeter talk less of competing in division 1 track.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Marlow » Thu May 09, 2013 5:26 am

gh wrote:NFL goes beyond poaching sprint talent; it's also about (and probably moreso, considering somatotypes) long jumpers and hurdlers. Plus putters and discus throwers.

I'll go on record that they are at least half a dozen 8500+ decathletes in the NFL. Junior Seau was the archetype: big, fast, strong, coordinated, work addict, coachable.

Give me a 6'6, 275 hyper-athletic NFL Combine Phenom. I'll slim him down a little to get a 5:00 1500 and we're off to the races!
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby user4 » Thu May 09, 2013 7:23 am

lonewolf wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:[ track coaches are at the whims of football coaches letting their best sprinters out of spring football to run track. It is lot different than it use to be.


Boy is it! My Okla A&M track coach, Ralph Higgins, favorite tale was about taking the OAMC backfield, Including All American Bob Fenimore, to West Point, circa 1944-45, and defeating the Army backfield, including Blanchard and Davis, in the 440 relay..
And, Fenimore won the 100 y over the field.


Seriously Fenimore beat Glenn Davis at 100yd ? ... Im going to guess that Davis was ahead by 2 full yards at the 60yd mark.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Thu May 09, 2013 7:52 am

kamikaze7 wrote:

The point is that the USA has such huge advantages over Jamaica that its bogus to point at basketball and football as the reason the USA is loosing to Jamaica.


It is all rather comical reading this ongoing nonsense about a rivalry very few, outside of Jamaica, care about. It is not surprising Greene's comments come from a Jamaica paper. For any US news organization it would have brought a big yawn. Bolt is a fine athlete. But I don't, and I also think 99% per cent of Americans who even know who he is, would care if he is German, Swede, American or whatever.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Thu May 09, 2013 8:23 am

gh wrote:NFL goes beyond poaching sprint talent; it's also about (and probably moreso, considering somatotypes) long jumpers and hurdlers. Plus putters and discus throwers.


When Michael Jordan did that dunk taking off from the free throw line years ago, my first thoughts were: what a long jumper he might have been.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby lonewolf » Thu May 09, 2013 8:32 am

user4 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:[ track coaches are at the whims of football coaches letting their best sprinters out of spring football to run track. It is lot different than it use to be.


Boy is it! My Okla A&M track coach, Ralph Higgins, favorite tale was about taking the OAMC backfield, Including All American Bob Fenimore, to West Point, circa 1944-45, and defeating the Army backfield, including Blanchard and Davis, in the 440 relay..
And, Fenimore won the 100 y over the field.


Seriously Fenimore beat Glenn Davis at 100yd ? ... Im going to guess that Davis was ahead by 2 full yards at the 60yd mark.

Thats what the man said... I doubt they were taking splits. I don't know if it was filmed or where to obtain results...it was just a favorite anecdote, only about four years in the past, at the time.. I have no reason to doubt it.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby lionelp1 » Thu May 09, 2013 8:44 am

And
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby lionelp1 » Thu May 09, 2013 8:45 am

kamikaze wrote:And even with the number of scholarships reduced, elite sprinters still have plenty of opportunities for track.

The point is that the USA has such huge advantages over Jamaica that its bogus to point at basketball and football as the reason the USA is loosing to Jamaica. If you start going down the road of such excuses, I am certain that anyone can mention 10 aspects where the US has huge advantages over Jamaica. We haven't even mentioned the fact that good Jamaican coaches often leave Jamaica for better offers at American colleges. Or the fact that because it has such a high emigration rate. Jamaica looses many of its best athletes at a young age or even before think Sanya, Linford, Inger, Donovan Bailey, Cydonie, Collin Jackson, Kelly Holmes, Derick Atkins, Jessica Ennis..............We havent even mentioned that poverty is far more more prevalent in Jamaica and is a hindrance to athletic development............I could go on forever regarding advantages the US has over virtually every other country talk less of Jamaica.

One can say that the US is loosing elite athletes to football. But using it as the reason Jamaica is better does not wash because the US still has huge advantages. And how many elite athletes have actually been lost to football. Jacoby Ford, Jeffery Demps and who else ? You can make the case that the issue is being overblown. With few exceptions, the fastest football players will struggle to beat Carmelita Jeter talk less of competing in division 1 track.



Thank goodness for some sense, Kamikaze.

Its so obvious that its blinkered to pretend that having a 320 million population is not a significant advantage over tiny countries, irrespective of NFL participation . Also it is so irrelevant to our sport which consists of a darn sight more than the constant exagerated attention paid to two sprints. Currently the Jamaicans are doing very well in the 100/200m sprints but soon the pendulum will swing back, imo, inevitably to the USA. Last summer the USA won 29 medals, I recall , rather a lot more than little Jamaica, despite all those losses to American football. :)
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby eldanielfire » Thu May 09, 2013 8:52 am

kamikaze7 wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:.


300 million? Yes, if you count all of the Swedish, Indian, Pakistani, Mexican, etc. :roll:

I think we have gone down this silly road before.


Just try and engage your brain just a little bit more. Higher population creates all kinds of opportunities for scholarships, sponsorships, TV revenue not to mention more coaches, qualified doctors physios etc as I mentioned above. To put it plainly, having a huge population offers USA a significant advantage. The reason there are over 100 division one schools and several division two schools is precisely because the USA has such as huge population that it needs so many universities. This in turn provides scholarship opportunities for athletes. Jamaica with a population of 2m has far fewer opportunities. The possibility of scholarships keeps athletes motivated and thus fewer are lost to lack of motivation compared to Jamaica.

And even with the number of scholarships reduced, elite sprinters still have plenty of opportunities for track.

The point is that the USA has such huge advantages over Jamaica that its bogus to point at basketball and football as the reason the USA is loosing to Jamaica. If you start going down the road of such excuses, I am certain that anyone can mention 10 aspects where the US has huge advantages over Jamaica. We haven't even mentioned the fact that good Jamaican coaches often leave Jamaica for better offers at American colleges. Or the fact that because it has such a high emigration rate. Jamaica looses many of its best athletes at a young age or even before think Sanya, Linford, Inger, Donovan Bailey, Cydonie, Collin Jackson, Kelly Holmes, Derick Atkins, Jessica Ennis..............We havent even mentioned that poverty is far more more prevalent in Jamaica and is a hindrance to athletic development............I could go on forever regarding advantages the US has over virtually every other country talk less of Jamaica.


Errrr, neither Jessica Ennis nor Kelly Holmes, who are both born in England to English mothers, ever set foot in Jamaica until they became adults. Kelly Holmes never even knew who her father was growing up.

Also with the success of Jamaican athletes it appears the countries best talent is actually staying and believing more success will come in Jamaica. Sanya Richards-Ross is the last one I can think of.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby batonless relay » Thu May 09, 2013 9:55 am

Marlow wrote:I'll go on record that they are at least half a dozen 8500+ decathletes in the NFL. Junior Seau was the archetype: big, fast, strong, coordinated, work addict, coachable.

Give me a 6'6, 275 hyper-athletic NFL Combine Phenom. I'll slim him down a little to get a 5:00 1500 and we're off to the races!

There are probably a half a dozen 8500+ decathletes within ... the IAAF, but they're sprinters and hurdlers and jumpers who can't be bothered with learning all those events. Also, if you're plan is to "slim down" 6'6", 275 guys then you have it all wrong. Had you said the same of the 235 guy guy then you would understand.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 09, 2013 10:08 am

Conor, that 99% figure is way too high; more easily phrased, more than 1% of the US public knows who Usain Bolt is. I would not be surprised if half the kids in my son's elementary school know who he is.

As another example, my wife has absolutely no interest in sports -- if they keep score in some manner it is not art (e.g., dance) and she has no interest. She knows who Bolt is and has for a long time. Obviously, because of me she is much more likely to know who he is, but I am trying to think of another track athlete she might name, or any athlete at all (aside from gymnasts). She would probably recognize the name Aaron Rogers, but I am not certain she would name him herself. She does know some gymnasts, but my daughter competes so that is a bit different.

There are two sports numbers she will likely know: 4:00 and 26 or 26+ and the latter is biased, as you might guess (10 is also a gymnastics association, but 10 seconds, no).
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Thu May 09, 2013 10:31 am

26mi235 wrote:Conor, that 99% figure is way too high; more easily phrased, more than 1% of the US public knows who Usain Bolt is. I would not be surprised if half the kids in my son's elementary school know who he is.

As another example, my wife has absolutely no interest in sports -- if they keep score in some manner it is not art (e.g., dance) and she has no interest. She knows who Bolt is and has for a long time. Obviously, because of me she is much more likely to know who he is, but I am trying to think of another track athlete she might name, or any athlete at all (aside from gymnasts). She would probably recognize the name Aaron Rogers, but I am not certain she would name him herself. She does know some gymnasts, but my daughter competes so that is a bit different.

There are two sports numbers she will likely know: 4:00 and 26 or 26+ and the latter is biased, as you might guess (10 is also a gymnastics association, but 10 seconds, no).


Oops, I can see I phrased it wrong. Yes, I agree most Americans know who he is. My point was the 99% of those who know who he is don't care about his nationality.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby ExCoastRanger » Thu May 09, 2013 10:43 am

26mi235 wrote:Conor, that 99% figure is way too high; more easily phrased, more than 1% of the US public knows who Usain Bolt is. I would not be surprised if half the kids in my son's elementary school know who he is....


I suspect plenty of Americans recognize his name, a few less his face, and hardly any who are not T&F fans will know in which events he competes or any of his marks.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby kamikaze7 » Sat May 11, 2013 4:24 pm

eldanielfire wrote:


Errrr, neither Jessica Ennis nor Kelly Holmes, who are both born in England to English mothers, ever set foot in Jamaica until they became adults. Kelly Holmes never even knew who her father was growing up.

Also with the success of Jamaican athletes it appears the countries best talent is actually staying and believing more success will come in Jamaica. Sanya Richards-Ross is the last one I can think of.


Go back and re-read my post. I said Jamaica looses so many people to migration at a young age and even before that.

Emigration is indeed a huge impediment to success even when it is not the actual athletes who are leaving. When Jamaicans move overseas and have children who become athletes, Jamaica has in effect lost an athlete.
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby kamikaze7 » Sat May 11, 2013 4:26 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:

The point is that the USA has such huge advantages over Jamaica that its bogus to point at basketball and football as the reason the USA is loosing to Jamaica.


It is all rather comical reading this ongoing nonsense about a rivalry very few, outside of Jamaica, care about. It is not surprising Greene's comments come from a Jamaica paper. For any US news organization it would have brought a big yawn. Bolt is a fine athlete. But I don't, and I also think 99% per cent of Americans who even know who he is, would care if he is German, Swede, American or whatever.


Nothing you've written here has anything to do with the debate at hand. Way to change the subject !
kamikaze7
 
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby Conor Dary » Sat May 11, 2013 4:30 pm

kamikaze7 wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
kamikaze7 wrote:

The point is that the USA has such huge advantages over Jamaica that its bogus to point at basketball and football as the reason the USA is loosing to Jamaica.


It is all rather comical reading this ongoing nonsense about a rivalry very few, outside of Jamaica, care about. It is not surprising Greene's comments come from a Jamaica paper. For any US news organization it would have brought a big yawn. Bolt is a fine athlete. But I don't, and I also think 99% per cent of Americans who even know who he is, would care if he is German, Swede, American or whatever.


Nothing you've written here has anything to do with the debate at hand. Way to change the subject !


Actually it is what this silly thread is all about.
Conor Dary
 
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Re: Greene - American male sprinters way behind Jamaicans

Postby eldanielfire » Sun May 12, 2013 3:03 am

kamikaze7 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:


Errrr, neither Jessica Ennis nor Kelly Holmes, who are both born in England to English mothers, ever set foot in Jamaica until they became adults. Kelly Holmes never even knew who her father was growing up.

Also with the success of Jamaican athletes it appears the countries best talent is actually staying and believing more success will come in Jamaica. Sanya Richards-Ross is the last one I can think of.


Go back and re-read my post. I said Jamaica looses so many people to migration at a young age and even before that.

Emigration is indeed a huge impediment to success even when it is not the actual athletes who are leaving. When Jamaicans move overseas and have children who become athletes, Jamaica has in effect lost an athlete.


The very existence of those two athletes not representing Jamaica can't be attributed to Jamaican migration, they are half English so they are Irrelevant example to use. Nothing can be presumed to be lost to Jamaica and neither has an athletic parent and neither has a sport skill set can be traced to Jamaicans success or counted as a loss of talent. Unless I'm missing how Jamaica is credited and praised for middle distance runners and multi-eventers which are funny enough two events in which Britain has a proud history of.

Otherwise most countries lose people to migration which in economic terms benefits Jamaica as the wealth sometimes sent back directly and indirectly allows for a higher quality of life, infrastructure etc.
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