Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)


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Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby EPelle » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:21 am

Line-ups:

  • United States Blue Ebonie Floyd—Mary Wineberg—Joanna Atkins—Keshia Baker
  • Canada Alicia Brown—Jenna Martin—Carline Muir—Amonn Nelson
  • Russia Molgacheva—Kotlyarova—Veshkurova—Litvinova
  • Nigeria Adebukola Abogunloko—Ajoke Odumosu—Regina George—Idara Otu
  • UK Emily Child—Shana Cox—Christine Ohuruogu—Perri Shakes-Drayton
  • United States Red Dee Dee Trotter—Jessica Beard—Natasha Hastings—Francena McCorory
  • Jamaica Sherika Williams—Kaliese Spencer—Christine Day—Novlene Williams Mills
  • Bahamas Christine Amertil—Amara Jones—Cottrell Martin—Lanece Clarke
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby iain » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:40 am

So no SRR or Felix ...
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby jamboy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:42 am

Is SRR injured. ?

Disappointed wth Shericka Williams in the 4 x 400m.she let Jessica Beard handle her on the first leg.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby gh » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:28 am

I'm sure she'll be crushed to learn that.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby gh » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:28 am

1 USA Red 3:22.66 Jessica Beard (51.5), Natasha Hastings (49.9), Dee Dee Trotter (51.0), Francena McCorory (50.3) USAr 1
2 Great Britain 3:22.68 Emily Child (51.6), Shana Cox (50.4), Christine Ohuruogu (50.4), Perri Shakes-Drayton (50.3) GBR 1
3 Jamaica 3:24.11 Sherika Williams (51.9), Novlene Williams Mills (50.0), Christine Day (51.0), Kaliese Spencer (51.2) JAM 1
4 USA Blue 3:26.26 Ebonie Floyd (52.9), Mary Wineberg (51.5), Joanna Atkins (50.3), Keshia Baker (51.6) USAb 1
5 Nigeria 3:28.65 Adebukola Abogunloko (52.4), Ajoke Odumosu (52.8), Regina George (49.5), Idara Otu (54.0) NGR 1
6 Bahamas 3:32.90 Christine Amertil (52.7), Amara Jones (52.9), Cottrell Martin (53.4), Lanece Clarke (53.9) BAH 1
7 Russia 3:34.92 Lily Molgacheva (56.8), Nadezha Kotlyarova (52.4), Tatyana Veshkurova (54.3), Lyudmila Litvinova (51.4) RUS 1
8 Canada 3:36.53 Alicia Brown (54.6), Noelle Montcalm (53.4), Carline Muir (54.9), Amonn Nelson (53.6)
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby samthemainman » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:30 am

Didn't watch the race but seen the splits and results - Team GB ran the US mighty close - 3:22.68 this early in the season is completely unheard of. Fastest ever split by TBO (50.4 - nothing special by her competitors' standard but great for her), superb split by Cox (50.4), a good one by PSD (50.3) and a solid lead off by Eilidh Child (51.6). Gutted we didn't pip USA Red - but it could be our best year ever over 4x4. With the likes of Margaret Adeoye, Nicola Sanders (no idea what her form's like), Lee McConnell plus others - it should be a good year. Well done girls.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:43 pm

samthemainman wrote:Didn't watch the race but seen the splits and results - Team GB ran the US mighty close - 3:22.68 this early in the season is completely unheard of. Fastest ever split by TBO (50.4 - nothing special by her competitors' standard but great for her), superb split by Cox (50.4), a good one by PSD (50.3) and a solid lead off by Eilidh Child (51.6). Gutted we didn't pip USA Red - but it could be our best year ever over 4x4. With the likes of Margaret Adeoye, Nicola Sanders (no idea what her form's like), Lee McConnell plus others - it should be a good year. Well done girls.


This was almost exactly what i was going ti write

=3rd best ever in April !!

We know we can get at last .5 from Perri we HOPE for at least the same from TBO (i want 1sec but let's not be greedy) Shana is very solid but we need to find a sub 51 first leg to get us in contention.

Very encouraging indeed :D
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby norunner » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:50 pm

mump boy wrote:We know we can get at last .5 from Perri we HOPE for at least the same from TBO (i want 1sec but let's not be greedy) Shana is very solid but we need to find a sub 51 first leg to get us in contention.

Very encouraging indeed :D
Shouldn't they all be able to find at least a second come Moscow? After all, it's still over 3 months away. It looks to me like they could go well below 3:20 at the WCs.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby iain » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:55 pm

norunner wrote:
mump boy wrote:We know we can get at last .5 from Perri we HOPE for at least the same from TBO (i want 1sec but let's not be greedy) Shana is very solid but we need to find a sub 51 first leg to get us in contention.

Very encouraging indeed :D
Shouldn't they all be able to find at least a second come Moscow? After all, it's still over 3 months away. It looks to me like they could go well below 3:20 at the WCs.


This is what I was thinking. Though I will be impressed if Shana goes much quicker TBH. The thing with TBO is that I think her split will depend so much on who she is against, and how close she is to them.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:05 pm

norunner wrote:
mump boy wrote:We know we can get at last .5 from Perri we HOPE for at least the same from TBO (i want 1sec but let's not be greedy) Shana is very solid but we need to find a sub 51 first leg to get us in contention.

Very encouraging indeed :D
Shouldn't they all be able to find at least a second come Moscow? After all, it's still over 3 months away. It looks to me like they could go well below 3:20 at the WCs.


No

Perri maybe from indoor form but i don't see Shana running faster than 50.4 (her best relay split ever) TBO has never run faster in a relay despite her individual accomplishments, in fact she is notoriously awful relay runner but we live in eternal hope and then we have the first leg problem, Eilidh was great indoors but i'm not 100% convinced first leg is right for her.

We've never had a good first leg runner, someone who can get us right top there. Perri ran 50.5 on Deagu but we need her on anchor

I honestly don't know if we have anyone who can do it right now.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:08 pm

iain wrote:
norunner wrote:
mump boy wrote:We know we can get at last .5 from Perri we HOPE for at least the same from TBO (i want 1sec but let's not be greedy) Shana is very solid but we need to find a sub 51 first leg to get us in contention.

Very encouraging indeed :D
Shouldn't they all be able to find at least a second come Moscow? After all, it's still over 3 months away. It looks to me like they could go well below 3:20 at the WCs.


This is what I was thinking. Though I will be impressed if Shana goes much quicker TBH. The thing with TBO is that I think her split will depend so much on who she is against, and how close she is to them.


Or if she can be bothered !!

I don't know another athlete in the history of track who has such a big negative differential between individual and relay.

Until today her relay best was 50.5 dating back to Athens when that was also her individual best. SHe has never approached it again until today !! and often runs 51+ :?
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby iain » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:15 pm

I think Eilidh can give a good account of herself on first, and today was certainly not her limit IMO. Anyway let's not get into the TBO relay debate again :P
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:21 pm

iain wrote:I think Eilidh can give a good account of herself on first, and today was certainly not her limit IMO. Anyway let's not get into the TBO relay debate again :P


:lol: Agreed

I think Eilidh will do great on 1st but i'd rather have 400m specialist rather than a hurdler, 1st is a funny leg and even the best can't get the hang of it.

Perri is the only 1 i'd trust but she's staying where she is :D
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby norunner » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:27 pm

mump boy wrote:This is what I was thinking. Though I will be impressed if Shana goes much quicker TBH. The thing with TBO is that I think her split will depend so much on who she is against, and how close she is to them.

Or if she can be bothered !!

I don't know another athlete in the history of track who has such a big negative differential between individual and relay.

Until today her relay best was 50.5 dating back to Athens when that was also her individual best. SHe has never approached it again until today !! and often runs 51+ :?
I'm gonna have to get some tissues to wipe away my tears of pity. I am German, last year in London our 4x4 ran a 3:31. Be glad you have four women that can run around or below 51 seconds because things could be soooooo much worse.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby samthemainman » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:51 pm

I'll stick my neck out and say that Eilidh is quite a good bet for 1st. For her first serious run of the season, 51.6 is pretty good. Hopefully with some speed in her she should run over a second quicker come summer.

Best 1st leg runner I've seen was Melanie Neef - in her brief 2 years between 1994-1996. She always ran the leg faster that she did in the individual - because she was always so hungry (shame so injury prone). Nicola Sanders and PSD have also run good sub 51 legs in heats - I think they both did a 50.4 in their time. Phylis Smith was also good in Barcelona 92 and at the World Cup in 1994 handing over first.

Anyway fingers crossed the girls can stay healthy and build on this fantastic performance - they're going to need to to medal in Moscow.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:30 pm

Russia 3:34.92 Lily Molgacheva (56.8)


Surprising that any international team has someone running 56.8, even on the first leg. That is was Russia is even more surprising unless there was a difficulty getting the right gals to run.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby Weights&Shoes » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:57 pm

We'll here's the race in glistening HD.

http://youtu.be/WOtUaL8IIXI

Wish the person recorded the other relays.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby mump boy » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:53 am

This makes very interesting watching and demonstrates US sublime tactical awareness in 4x4 and UK's naiveté. Dee Trotters move to the outside on the home stretch was textbook and TBO got it all wrong. Same with McRory, Perri had the taking of her but ran wide round both bends for no reason.

UK ladies were magnificent for April (unheard of to be in such good form this early) but we could have won that if we had US experience and nous.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby nevetsllim » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:04 am

26mi235 wrote:
Russia 3:34.92 Lily Molgacheva (56.8)


Surprising that any international team has someone running 56.8, even on the first leg. That is was Russia is even more surprising unless there was a difficulty getting the right gals to run.


And she isn't a bad runner either. She ran 52.90 indoors.

A really encouraging performance from the Brits - their joint third fastest time ever (about 6sec faster than at the Penn Relays last year with an almost identical squad) and Ohuruogu's 50.4 was her fastest ever relay split. Our sprinters are never in their top form in April so hopefully they can build on this form and shave a few seconds off by the time we get to the World Champs.

Will be interesting to see if Adeoye, who hasn't raced since the winter, translates her indoor form outdoors because she could be a very handy addition to the team, probably on the second leg.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby samthemainman » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:28 am

I've watched the race too and agree on the poor tactics by TBO and PSD --- TBO lost at least a couple of tenths in the home straight and Perri must have run an extra ten metres. If Michael Johnson had been commentating he'd have been slating her for going wide on the curve. Kriss Akabusi in 1991 was the perfect example of how to just overtake I. The straight.

I reckon Eilidh has an extra second in there (she seemed to run the first 200 too gingerly) and I'd love to see what Margaret can do on second too. Shana ran really well though and for me looked like a well drilled relay runner for whom this was routine. I hope she maintains form this year.

Excited for this year and I hope it gives the girls the confidence they need to know they can challenge the best rather than just be in the mix for the minors. Reminds me of 90, 91, 96, 97 and 98 where our men were in the same place.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby user4 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:12 am

samthemainman wrote:I've watched the race too and agree on the poor tactics by TBO and PSD --- TBO lost at least a couple of tenths in the home straight and Perri must have run an extra ten metres. If Michael Johnson had been commentating he'd have been slating her for going wide on the curve. Kriss Akabusi in 1991 was the perfect example of how to just overtake I. The straight.
.


wow, that really did stick out like a sore thumb. What a train wreck tactic by the UK final leg. She had an easy win and she chose rather to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory . That was a classic HS sophomore mistake.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby Flumpy » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:35 am

Which is exactly why it's so great we're actually running relays this early rather than leaving everything to the last minute.

Practice Makes Perfect!!!
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby gh » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:48 am

one reason why we frequently make the U.S. women the favorite over the "faster" Russians at the big championships. The Americans are so used to the game that they run the legs as you should, whereas the Russians frequently have that deer-in-the-headlights look.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:16 am

TBO ran like it was an 'open' race (e.g., indoor 400) by going to the inside. Since she was behind at 200 she has to take the exchange in the second lane. If she had gone inside and run somewhat ahead but not clear, she really would have been stuck because they cannot switch positions at the post.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby Flumpy » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:08 pm

Very good point.

Have to say that I'm loving the fact we have other things to moan about rather than the usual WTF was that leg type complaints :mrgreen:
Last edited by Flumpy on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:27 pm

Based on this early season time without the two best runners for the US, is it possible that we could see a run at the World Record this year?
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:31 pm

2 seconds per 400 is a BIG change; any 3:15 mark will be very difficult, 3:16 will not be easy.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:38 pm

I'm only saying that because last season with Felix, Richards-Ross, Hastings, and McCorory they ran 3:21.18 at the Penn Relays and then came within 1.7 seconds of the world record at the Olympics.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4

Postby t_monk » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:49 pm

JumboElliott wrote:Based on this early season time without the two best runners for the US, is it possible that we could see a run at the World Record this year?


Will SRR even be ready for trials? Apparently she had done surgery and from what I've seen she hasn't run one race all season. She doesn't have any bye this season, both going to Montsho as the Diamond League and the reigning World Champion. Without both AF and SRR on the team, the US 4x400 team becomes very susceptible.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby norunner » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:33 pm

What does TBO mean? I know it stands for Christine Ohuruogu, but that doesn't explain the TB part.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:58 pm

The Big O//TBO
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:07 pm

Based on her comments on the Penn Relays show yesterday, I don't think we see SRR in any great form this season or possibly at all this season.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:12 pm

I would rather not see her than see her in poor form. I hate when people compete on injuries that haven't been given the time to properly heal.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby ATK » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:18 pm

JumboElliott wrote:I would rather not see her than see her in poor form. I hate when people compete on injuries that haven't been given the time to properly heal.

But how can we judge that? I'm pretty An athlete like SRR has people who know when she is ready and not. 2010 she got injured and did not compete after USA's. 2011 she was recovering and still in poor form, but competed. And it subsequently paid off with a transition into an amazing season.
I think occasional planned competition if you are capable is better than none at all.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby beebee » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:56 pm

Dutra5 wrote:Based on her comments on the Penn Relays show yesterday, I don't think we see SRR in any great form this season or possibly at all this season.


You must have serious inside information...I would never count this lady out...the best(clean) female 400m runner ever.

If somehow you are correct, the USA's women's 4x400 will win anyway.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby t_monk » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:17 pm

beebee wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:Based on her comments on the Penn Relays show yesterday, I don't think we see SRR in any great form this season or possibly at all this season.


You must have serious inside information...I would never count this lady out...the best(clean) female 400m runner ever.

If somehow you are correct, the USA's women's 4x400 will win anyway.


She did surgery earlier this year and it's taking very long to hear (her words exactly). She literally has not run at all this season. She now therefore needs to fit in base training and speed training all in one month (May) in preparation for trials in June. She does not have the luxury of just appearing for the WC seeing that she has no bye to lean back on.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby fasttrack85 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:15 pm

Sanya did say she is healing from surgery on her big toe. She didn't say she wasnt training just not competing.

Anyone know why Allyson didn't run in the 4 by 4 relay? Is she trying to stay fresh for Jamaica or not ready for that distance?
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby tm71 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:00 pm

if SRR has not run competed in any races yet and has had trouble healing from her injury i would be very surprised if she makes the team in the 400 in less than 8 weeks. she will most likely be on the relay squad.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby eldanielfire » Sun May 05, 2013 12:19 am

Finally saw this, Great race, race a 400m relay is so exciting.

It's A shame TBO tried for too long to take the inside (why are British athletes obsessed with hoping the inside opens up?) before going around and PSD weirdly tried to overtake on the curve twice. If either mistake was removed the Brits could have won. I noticed th splits were consistently good. Ohuruoghu's increased focus on speed work seems to be paying off, despite taking forever to change her mind not to go on the inside, she still kept pace and looked like she had her usual speedy finish at the end. I honestly think this GB team could medal in place of Jamaica this year with a bit of luck. All 4 girls seemed to have had good winters and are in the forms of their lives.

t_monk wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:Based on this early season time without the two best runners for the US, is it possible that we could see a run at the World Record this year?




The 400m along with the 1500m world records are probably the most untouchable records in the sport.

Without both AF and SRR on the team, the US 4x400 team becomes very susceptible.


I'm not so sure, last year anybody half decent could have been on the last leg and won the race, the USA was so far ahead. The USA will only be under threat is and when the Russian women's learn to manage a race and stop completely blowing it at championships every time.

beebee wrote:
You must have serious inside information...I would never count this lady out...the best(clean) female 400m runner ever.
If somehow you are correct, the USA's women's 4x400 will win anyway.


That is hugely debatable. Sanya is very talented and fast but that isn't the same as the best. For years her race management was suspect and it appears she is a slow learner, hence she only has one world championship and one Olympic gold. She blew it in 2008, she made a big mistake of judgement in the 2012 indoor relay. Others who are considered clean and better than Richards-Ross would be Marie-José Pérec (much faster, Olympic record and much stronger international record in big championships), Cathy Freeman (faster and more successful once Perec was out of the way) and maybe Olga Bryzgina all have stronger records and times to genuinely challenge for the "clean women's 400m GOAT" title and it would be hard to not give it to Perec.
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Re: Penn USA vs World w4x4: USA 3:22.66 (WL)

Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 05, 2013 1:06 am

eldanielfire wrote:Finally saw this, Great race, race a 400m relay is so exciting.

It's A shame TBO tried for too long to take the inside (why are British athletes obsessed with hoping the inside opens up?) before going around


The attempt to go inside was fatally flawed no matter the results. She has to take the outside pass and if she does not GB are DQed. It is stunning that someone at this level is so ignorant of the rules of the sport that they would even put themselves in this position. Give credit to the Americans for beating like a drum here. I am surprised that people here have tended to think that she took a risk that was silly and that did not pay off. She took no risk, there was absolutely NO payoff from going inside. Well, she could have gotten so far clear that she would have add enough time and space to pass by enough to be clear and then shifted over to lane two to make the pass, but that would have almost taken a fall by the American.
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