Prep Underclass Overachievers


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Prep Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:36 am

As previously noted, CA grade-9 kid Austin Tamagno ran a 4.11,10 over 1.600m at last week-end's Orange County Championships (60-point last lap). Tamagno's mark broke the CA grade-9 record set by Blake Haney, the current 4.09/8.48 grade-11 runner from Bakersfield Stockdale. Tamagno's 1.600m now only trails Sintayehu Taye's 4.09,69 USA grade-9 mark (2005 Maine State Meet Class A).

Tamagno's one of three CA grade-9 kids under 4.20 this season (Jacob Ogden/4.17,01; Phillip Rocha/4.17,99). Ogden ran a 15.00 3-mile in cross country and has recorded 1.59,3/9.24,1 bests in sandwiching his 4.17. Rocha ran a 14.56 3-mile in cross country and has run 2.00,2/9.17,4 bests between his 1.600m PB.

With Tamagno and Ogden both Orange County competitors, there should be plenty of great track and cross country clashes set for these two later this season as well as deep into the future.

Grade-9 1.600m performers:

    1.59,9 ..... 4.11,10 ..... 9.18,01 (Tamagno)
    1.59,3 ..... 4.17,01 ..... 9.24,12 (Ogden)
    2.00,2 ..... 4.17,99 ..... 9.17,42 (Rocha)
Meanwhile, grade-10 vaulter Kaitlyn Merritt, the Arcadia and Orange County champion -- and who holds the grade-9 and grade-10 records (13-3/4.03m |13-8/4.16m, respectively), is apparently very close to breaching the 14-0 (4.26m) barrier.

Which other of the underclass are over-achieving out there?
Last edited by EPelle on Thu May 09, 2013 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby aaronk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:15 am

Oh God, there's so many....and most are on the female side of the ledger.

This year, there's Courtney Corrin (CA), who just set a frosh class LJ record with her 20-11.

Also, there's a few who start early setting class records......and then continue doing so with EVERY class record!

I believe, in her day, Amy Acuff held ALL FOUR class records in the HJ!!
(Actually she still does, though some have TIED a few of her class marks!)

Dior Hall ran 13.18 as a frosh, but slowed to 13.45 last year as a soph.....though both are class records.
(So far, haven't heard much from her in her junior year!)

Kendell Williams now holds the frosh, soph, and junior class marks in the Hept! (I assume she'll get the senior class mark soon too!)

And of course, there's Mary Cain, who now holds the (outdoor) frosh and soph class records for the 1500.....and should soon add the (outdoor) junior class mark!!

But there's at least two girls who set "HSR's" ........even though they were still in MIDDLE school!!!!

Hannah Carson threw the Jav 173-7 as an EIGHTH grader (which was considered a "HSR".....even though she wasn't yet in HS!!).......but for the next four years, could not (for various reasons) better that mark!!
I believe she's a soph in college now....and is coming "back".

A girl from NY, Brianna Jackucewicz, ran 16:43.02 for 5000 indoors back in 2004.....which was then considered the "HSR"....even though she was just a SEVENTH grader.
For various reasons, she never improved either!!

But ALL of these athletes have given me lots of thrilling fantasies about how GREAT they're GOING to be......!

Alas, in several cases, that bubble was burst.....again for various reasons!!
(Which explains, at least in part, why I'm so excited about Mary Cain!! She SEEMS like she'll be one to break the "curse" or "jinx" or whatever.....of early EARLY success!!)
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:22 am

This Cain obsession is sad and unreal. Cain, in grade-11, doesn't qualify for this discussion.
Acuff graduated from high school 20 years ago. This isn't necessarily about who's claiming class records, rather who's performing well for their grade (9-10).
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby aaronk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:36 am

EPelle wrote:This Cain obsession is sad and unreal. Cain, in grade-11, doesn't qualify for this discussion.
Acuff graduated from high school 20 years ago. This isn't necessarily about who's claiming class records, rather who's performing well for their grade (9-10).


This "obsession" is all YOURS, Sir!!
I 'm just someone excited to be alive in the time when the greatest female high school middle/long distance runner is performing like no other!!
So cut out this "obsession" crap!!!

As for the OTHER examples I gave, class records indicate someone who is "performing well for their grade"....wouldn't you agree??
Since your examples....and the Courtney Corrin example that I added.....are the ONLY ones I know of right NOW......made me include examples from the past.....most of whom STILL hold those class marks!!

Unless you follow Middle School T&F.......or 9th grade T&F....OBSESSIVELY......which I do NOT (It's just ONE SMALL AREA of the sport of T&F that I follow!!)....it's pretty difficult to come up with examples of precociousness.....unless or until they make headlines in a newspaper or online somewhere!!

BTW, if my INTEREST in Ms Cain can be called an "obsession", then I had the SAME EXACT "obsession".....if not even MORE so!!......for Gerry Lindgren when HE first burst on the scene back in 1964!!
And look at the OBSESSION people STILL have with Steve Prefontaine......albeit all deservedly so!!
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:52 am

Obsession. Fixation. Attraction. Pre-occupation. Whatever it is, mention of Cain's current achievements needn't be included on this thread (again, as with the previous high school thread which you hijacked following Tamagno's mention). I'd prefer you to stop mentioning her in this thread; she's not an underclass-man.

A kid can still perform well for their grade sans the distinction of class-record holder, which signifies that they were the best in their grade. Some folks are sprouting up and holding their own against kids across the country who are one to three grades higher in status. Whether or not these advanced kids eventually break their class records isn't this thread's focus. To see these kids happy and fit and continuously improving is what's exciting on the underclass level. Where (and if) that leads them (somewhere) remains to be seen. Exciting and fun times for them, indeed.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby aaronk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:09 am

Okay, sorry for "hijacking" this (or other) thread(s).
But as I said, until or unless their achievements hit the newspapers, or appear online, or unless you're their parent or a "soccer mom", it's almost impossible to come across boys like Tamagno.

(BTW, by emphasizing underclass-MAN, are you wanting marks by boys ONLY?? Because Ms Corrin is definitely fitting as a great underclass achiever!)

The best way I know to discover underclassmen (or women!) is to look in HS Track, the book by Jack Shepard.
Look for athletes with more than three ***'s next to their name.
Three ***'s indicate that athlete is a 9th grader, or was, in that year.
So FOUR (or more!) ****'s indicate 8th and 7th and maybe, in one or two cases, SIXTH graders!!

Now THAT is something to get excited about!! (If only they continued in the sport....and/or continued at that high level!!)
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:13 am

Impossible? Not really. Drop into Dyestat or Calprep Track or any of the Milesplit sites. They have a magnitude of distinguishable (and distinguished) local, state and USA list leaders, and they're brilliant at drawing attention to those who deserve it, class distinction notwithstanding.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby gh » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:59 am

aaronk wrote:...
BTW, if my INTEREST in Ms Cain can be called an "obsession", then I had the SAME EXACT "obsession".....if not even MORE so!!......for Gerry Lindgren when HE first burst on the scene back in 1964!!
And look at the OBSESSION people STILL have with Steve Prefontaine......albeit all deservedly so!!


And your obsession with Lindgren would have been viewed as just as creepy. Love your enthusiasm, but it's time you turned it down a notch. Not just on Cain, but on everything. This board is meant for group participation, not as your personal blogspot. Thanks for understanding.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:10 am

The 8th grader Raven (spelling) Roberts (?) ran 2:11; still two seconds above her 2:09 as a 7th grader but is very good and the season is not done yet (although being from Florida I think she is not at the beginning of her season). Her older sister was spectacularly good early and is still good.

If you looked at the top X list for XC this season, you would have seen a significant number of them are in grade 9. I will go look at a couple later. One of the top couple in Wisconsin was on that list, and the dominant girls XC squad from Neenah loses almost no one and so are at least juniors - they are running Penn's 4x800 as mentioned elsewhere, so there willl be info soon on the track side (includes twins who might be grade 10).

[Yes, it was (her sister) Daesha that I meant.]
Last edited by 26mi235 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby doug5321 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:10 pm

26mi235 wrote:The 8th grader Raven (spelling) Roberts (?) ran 2:11; still two seconds above her 2:09 as a 7th grader but is very good and the season is not done yet (although being from Florida I think she is not at the beginning of her season). Her older sister was spectacularly good early and is still good.

If you looked at the top X list for XC this season, you would have seen a significant number of them are in grade 9. I will go look at a couple later. One of the top couple in Wisconsin was on that list, and the dominant girls XC squad from Neenah loses almost no one and so are at least juniors - they are running Penn's 4x800 as mentioned elsewhere, so there willl be info soon on the track side (includes twins who might be grade 10).


just a couple of things raevyn rogers is in 11th grade and ran 2:05 in 10th grade, daesha ran 2:07 in 7th grade.

are you sure they are sisters?
raevyn lives in texas, daesha lives in florida, could just be 2 girls in the same event with the samelast name, i dont know.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby G.Ahearn » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:30 pm

gh wrote:
aaronk wrote:...
BTW, if my INTEREST in Ms Cain can be called an "obsession", then I had the SAME EXACT "obsession".....if not even MORE so!!......for Gerry Lindgren when HE first burst on the scene back in 1964!!
And look at the OBSESSION people STILL have with Steve Prefontaine......albeit all deservedly so!!


And your obsession with Lindgren would have been viewed as just as creepy. Love your enthusiasm, but it's time you turned it down a notch. Not just on Cain, but on everything. This board is meant for group participation, not as your personal blogspot. Thanks for understanding.


Thanks for saying this gh. If I was Mary Cain's father, I might be a tad concern about some of the posts I've seen on this board in the past year.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby aaronk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:16 pm

G.Ahearn wrote:
gh wrote:
aaronk wrote:...
BTW, if my INTEREST in Ms Cain can be called an "obsession", then I had the SAME EXACT "obsession".....if not even MORE so!!......for Gerry Lindgren when HE first burst on the scene back in 1964!!
And look at the OBSESSION people STILL have with Steve Prefontaine......albeit all deservedly so!!


And your obsession with Lindgren would have been viewed as just as creepy. Love your enthusiasm, but it's time you turned it down a notch. Not just on Cain, but on everything. This board is meant for group participation, not as your personal blogspot. Thanks for understanding.


Thanks for saying this gh. If I was Mary Cain's father, I might be a tad concern about some of the posts I've seen on this board in the past year.


:lol: :lol: :roll:
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby gh » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:10 pm

glad to see you think this is funny. Check back with us in a week and let us know how funny it is then.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby gktrack » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:11 pm

A fine double by 9th grader Kaylin Whitney: 11.57 / 23.30 at FL 3A Region 2. Unfortunately, no wind indicators on the results sheet... current US#1 in 200m is 23.34 by Poly's A. Washington.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:10 am

At Drake these are the results from the Girls 3000; top two are freshmen.

1 Stephanie Jenks FR Linn-Mar 9:46.02
2 McKenzie Yanek FR Pleasant Val 9:50.87

And a Relays record in the DT
Event 870 Girls Discus Throw High School
==========================================================================
Relays: D 151-01 4/26/2007 Taylor Freeman, Iowa City West
Name Year School Finals
==========================================================================
1 Kiana Phelps FR Kingsly-P/Wo 153-04D 46.73m
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:41 pm

Grade-10 New York miler Luke Gavigan, ran 4.17,45y (4.15,99m) at Penn. Gavigan ran 1.57,60|4.20,89 last season in grade-9. Grade-10 miler Philip Hall from North Carolina ran 4.19,65y, (4.18,19m) which is shy of his 4.17,68 PB (and 4.17,60i). Hall ran 1.57,26|4.21,40 last season in grade-9.

The heretofore mentioned CA grade-9 milers have inferior 800m bests in comparison with what their grade-10 counterparts back east achieved a season ago, but have exceptionally better longer distance credentials.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:41 am

Front-page article reveals that Alexa Efraimson (10) beat national 1.600m leader (4.43,57) Amy-Eloise Neale up in Washington, at 1.500m, 4.24,70—4.26,52. Efraimson doubled back two hours later to take the 800m in 2.10,56, winning by over 5 seconds. Efraimson, who ran 2.08,92/4.23,41 in grade-9 last season, has 2.09/4.19 credentials under her belt this season.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby valleyrunner » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:39 pm

As we watch the Mary Cain developments I am thinking I am thinking its time to also consider that she is no longer eligible for HS records even by TFN. I say this for the same reason TFN disallows collegiate records after the college season when athletes are running in virtually pro meets. She has chosen to take this path and as such has forfeited her right to be eligible for prep marks. I doubt she runs one single prep only meet this season despite options to do so.

as for Alexa Efraimson its only a matter of time I am afraid that nearby (10 miles from her home in Camas, Wa) Alberto Salazar entices her to join his ranks. She is a super talent with a more than solid coach in Tim Hickey at her school who experienced some success at Portland State where he had little scholarship money and a combative head coach who shunned distance.

I hope she will avoid the temptation of Nike as its not about getting to the top the fastest but doing it so the athlete develops in all areas and experiences and enjoys the sport fully. Many of the sports "underclass overachievers" of the past flamed out and while some may have well reached their peak in hs physically/developmentally and at least obtained some time in the sun, for far too many they couldn't handle the success mentally to keep performing when improvements are not automatic race to race. A different mindset develops that can stunt or kill development that is rushed too soon.

As much as Galen was successful at an early age its more of a "where are they now" about those that were studs in HS more often than not. Jen Barringer had some success but nothing like Cain. Uceny? Not so much. Symmonds has had a long career of success but wasn't rushed to success in either HS or college. Same for Duane Soloman.

I mean with people gushing on here (and in other websites) like aaronk about these underclassmen how do you think these kids can handle all the comments of someone telling them, "You are going to win a gold medal at the next 5 Olympics and they will rename the Pre meet after you" type comments can we expect them to have normal development. Been in and around this sport a long time and this issue is the biggest cause of failure of any I have witnessed. Leads to other issues as they try to deal with the pressures like depression and excessive partying as they try and escape even for bits of time. Food for thought.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby unclezadok » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:29 pm

After reading that I'm pretty depressed myself. I think I'll start following roller derby instead.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:48 am

Update:

Grade-9 1.600m performers:

    1.59,71 .... 4.11,10 ..... 9.18,01 (Tamagno)
    1.57,2 ..... 4.17,01 ..... 9.24,12 (Ogden)
    1.56,84 .... 4.17,99 ..... 9.17,42 (Rocha)
No change at 1.600m, but Rocha drops 4 seconds from his 800m best and moves up to the #5 CA under-classman over 800m since last update; Ogden drops 2 seconds from his PB; Tamagno slices 0,2 off his 800m. How much will either Odgen or Rocha drop from their 1.600m over the coming weeks?

Grade-10 Paul Zeiss out of Granite Bay drops nearly 9 seconds from his PB, running 4.16,95 at the Sacramento Meet of Champions at the week-end. Zeiss joins Kasey Knevelbaard (4.15,85) (Immanuel) at the top of the grade-10 class in CA (sub-4.17). Saratoga's Steven Sum is at 4.17,04m (converted Stanford mile). Nationally, that places Knevelbaard ahead of Luke Gavigan out of New York, who ran 4.17,45y (4.15,99m) at Penn.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby mrbowie » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:32 pm

I am sorry, but I Cain hep myself...
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby gh » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:22 pm

valleyrunner wrote:As we watch the Mary Cain developments I am thinking I am thinking its time to also consider that she is no longer eligible for HS records even by TFN.....


will not happen... the NCAA/HS analogy doesn''t work.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby valleyrunner » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:53 pm

gh can you elaborate as to why in THIS case. I understand why in typical fashion the differences.

With Cain it came out this weekend she will no longer participate in ANY OTHER PREP ONLY races ever again in track and field.

Sure she is still enrolled in HS course work but there are hundreds of professionals who are still enrolled in college coursework and I don't think any would cite that as qualification for consideration of collegiate records.

She has made decision to move to the pro-level races and as such gains a huge advantage. We don't consider collegians when they have eligibility left as setting collegiate records once they make move to pro ranks or even if they have signed no deal but are just entered in open competition not formally part of the collegiate season.

How can you set records for a level of competition you have decided to forgoe and not partake of? If she were going to run ANY HS only level races I could see her still being eligible but in this case I just don't.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:03 pm

College and high school are fundamentally different environments. One key difference is the way eligibility is defined and enforced. Another is that much of high school is mandated while college is decidedly not. The whole manner in which sport is operated (recruiting, scholarships, NCAA [for good and ill] and the rules are very different. In addition there are generations that have had the same rules applied and it makes for better comparability to continue them in generally the same vein. The NFHS or whatever it is keeps a set of records that conforms to what you seem to prefer; I would bet a lot of money that a majority of those posting here strongly prefer the listings generated by T&FNews.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby CookyMonzta » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:13 pm

Consider Elise Cranny as an overachiever. She ran 4:15.07 at Stanford this past weekend at the Payton Jordan Invitational, for #3 HS all-time in the 1,500. Last year, she could only muster a 5:02 mile.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:54 pm

Hats off to Cranny. Excellent mark. However, as with Cain, she's not an under-class (grades 9-10) performer.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby JayIsMe » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:01 pm

I think Vashti Cunningham's 6' 1/4" HJ meets the criteria. From the one picture I saw of her with her brother at Arcadia, she looks every bit the HS freshman. A couple of quick questions, if anybody knows the answers-

1) Have the high school lists ever had a brother and sister with nation-leading marks in the same event?

2) We know about the dad- was the mom an athlete of any repute?
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby gh » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:46 pm

one reference i found said the mother is a South African-born former ballet dancer.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby EPelle » Thu May 02, 2013 11:45 am

Yes, Mrs. Cunningham was born in Johannesburg and retired from ballet to raise her kids.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby doug5321 » Thu May 02, 2013 8:45 pm

with the cunningham brother and sister combination 13feet 3 and 1/4 is the cumulative height a record for a brother sister? what is the best brother-sister high jump combo ever?

thank you
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby aaronk » Fri May 03, 2013 12:34 am

Vashti Cunningham's HJ mark is a frosh class record.....by a quarter of an inch!!......surpassing Amy Acuff's frosh mark from 1990. (And tied by 1 or 2 others since!)
Thus we have TWO girl's field event frosh class records broken so far this year, the other being Courtney Corrin's 20-11 LJ.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby highjumpfan » Fri May 03, 2013 8:19 am

gh wrote:
valleyrunner wrote:As we watch the Mary Cain developments I am thinking I am thinking its time to also consider that she is no longer eligible for HS records even by TFN.....


will not happen... the NCAA/HS analogy doesn''t work.


Interesting discussion. I remember back in I think it was 1990 or 1991, Maria Mutola moved to Oregon and enrolled in High School there. At the same time she was competing and initially her times were put on the HS leaders list and then removed as it was determined she was not representing her High School, merely attending.

I strongly support the inclusion of any high school age student who is attending school to be included in the record list regardless of where they are competing and who they are representing, and to that end I always found it odd that Mutola was left off the lists. Maybe now that Cain is shattering records, it's time to reinstate the results of Mutola!
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby aaronk » Fri May 03, 2013 8:34 am

highjumpfan wrote:
gh wrote:
valleyrunner wrote:As we watch the Mary Cain developments I am thinking I am thinking its time to also consider that she is no longer eligible for HS records even by TFN.....


will not happen... the NCAA/HS analogy doesn''t work.


Interesting discussion. I remember back in I think it was 1990 or 1991, Maria Mutola moved to Oregon and enrolled in High School there. At the same time she was competing and initially her times were put on the HS leaders list and then removed as it was determined she was not representing her High School, merely attending.

I strongly support the inclusion of any high school age student who is attending school to be included in the record list regardless of where they are competing and who they are representing, and to that end I always found it odd that Mutola was left off the lists. Maybe now that Cain is shattering records, it's time to reinstate the results of Mutola!


Didn't know/had forgotten that bit about Mutola.
Interesting!
As for Cain and other HS'ers who compete "unattached", sometimes they HAVE to!!
Home schooled HS'ers.
Those whose school doesn't have a track team....or a track!!
And those who are too good for high school-level competition.

Cayla Hatton ran that 33:17 10K in a college meet....and a mixed race....and her mark is listed in HS Track.....with her HS name attached to it......even though she ran that race unattached!
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby huntinwr » Fri May 03, 2013 9:14 am

EPelle wrote:Front-page article reveals that Alexa Efraimson (10) beat national 1.600m leader (4.43,57) Amy-Eloise Neale up in Washington, at 1.500m, 4.24,70—4.26,52. Efraimson doubled back two hours later to take the 800m in 2.10,56, winning by over 5 seconds. Efraimson, who ran 2.08,92/4.23,41 in grade-9 last season, has 2.09/4.19 credentials under her belt this season.


Do you know where she ran that 4:19? Athletic.net doesn't list that performance.

Thanks :)
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby Blues » Fri May 03, 2013 9:30 am

huntinwr wrote:
EPelle wrote:Front-page article reveals that Alexa Efraimson (10) beat national 1.600m leader (4.43,57) Amy-Eloise Neale up in Washington, at 1.500m, 4.24,70—4.26,52. Efraimson doubled back two hours later to take the 800m in 2.10,56, winning by over 5 seconds. Efraimson, who ran 2.08,92/4.23,41 in grade-9 last season, has 2.09/4.19 credentials under her belt this season.


Do you know where she ran that 4:19? Athletic.net doesn't list that performance.

Thanks :)


Here are those results:

Oregon Preview - Mar 16, 2013
Hayward Field, University of Oregon, Eugene, OR, US

Womens 1500m
Name Yr School Finals H# Pts
1 Efraimson, Alexa Unattached 4:19.54 1
2 Carlyle, Laura Bowerman Athleti 4:21.83 1
3 Roesler, Laura Oregon 4:22.33 1
4 Penney, Sarah Oregon 4:23.74 1
5 Mattox, Kimber Bowerman Athleti 4:25.67 1
6 Patrignelli, Megan Oregon 4:29.10 1
7 Mittelstaedt, Hannah Seattle Universi 4:38.91 1
8 Hottenrott, Laura Portland 4:39.08 1
9 Maton, Ashley Oregon 4:40.11 1
10 Wallace, Taylor Oregon 4:45.89 1
11 Spurling, Heather Lewis & Clark 4:48.94 1
-- Leblanc, Annie Oregon DNF 1
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby doug5321 » Sat May 04, 2013 11:33 am

aaronk wrote:
highjumpfan wrote:
gh wrote:
valleyrunner wrote:As we watch the Mary Cain developments I am thinking I am thinking its time to also consider that she is no longer eligible for HS records even by TFN.....


will not happen... the NCAA/HS analogy doesn''t work.


Interesting discussion. I remember back in I think it was 1990 or 1991, Maria Mutola moved to Oregon and enrolled in High School there. At the same time she was competing and initially her times were put on the HS leaders list and then removed as it was determined she was not representing her High School, merely attending.

I strongly support the inclusion of any high school age student who is attending school to be included in the record list regardless of where they are competing and who they are representing, and to that end I always found it odd that Mutola was left off the lists. Maybe now that Cain is shattering records, it's time to reinstate the results of Mutola!


Didn't know/had forgotten that bit about Mutola.
Interesting!
As for Cain and other HS'ers who compete "unattached", sometimes they HAVE to!!
Home schooled HS'ers.
Those whose school doesn't have a track team....or a track!!
And those who are too good for high school-level competition.

Cayla Hatton ran that 33:17 10K in a college meet....and a mixed race....and her mark is listed in HS Track.....with her HS name attached to it......even though she ran that race unattached!


also i believe the real high school boys 800 meter record is held by billy konchellah who was a student at mission viejo when he ran a time that is better than michael granvilles high school time. i heard konchellah tried to be on the team and did most of the runs with the high school, but konchellah wanted to run with edwin moses and henry rono a couple of times a week, but the coach said, he has to do all his workouts with the team to be on the team.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby dj » Sat May 04, 2013 1:05 pm

JayIsMe wrote:I think Vashti Cunningham's 6' 1/4" HJ meets the criteria. From the one picture I saw of her with her brother at Arcadia, she looks every bit the HS freshman. A couple of quick questions, if anybody knows the answers-

1) Have the high school lists ever had a brother and sister with nation-leading marks in the same event?


1979 LJ, Carl Lewis 26-8 HSR, Carol Lewis 20-10 3/4 (3, x a-t HS)
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby Dutra5 » Sat May 04, 2013 1:22 pm

doug5321 wrote:
also i believe the real high school boys 800 meter record is held by billy konchellah who was a student at mission viejo when he ran a time that is better than michael granvilles high school time. i heard konchellah tried to be on the team and did most of the runs with the high school, but konchellah wanted to run with edwin moses and henry rono a couple of times a week, but the coach said, he has to do all his workouts with the team to be on the team.


Not sure Konchellah ran under the current record while in HS. Konchellah actually being in HS is also tough to narrow down. He started out in Iowa and ended up at Mission Viejo in CA. It was his club coach who prevented him from running with the MV team.

As to the rest of the discussion about eligibility....isn't this dependent upon who's actually compiling and approving the records? Who is the official HS record compiler? They can make the rules whatever they wish.
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby berkeley » Sat May 04, 2013 1:25 pm

doug5321 wrote:I strongly support the inclusion of any high school age student who is attending school to be included in the record list regardless of where they are competing and who they are representing, and to that end I always found it odd that Mutola was left off the lists.
...
also i believe the real high school boys 800 meter record is held by billy konchellah who was a student at mission viejo when he ran a time that is better than michael granvilles high school time. i heard konchellah tried to be on the team and did most of the runs with the high school, but konchellah wanted to run with edwin moses and henry rono a couple of times a week, but the coach said, he has to do all his workouts with the team to be on the team.

Couldn't agree more. High school sports are far too bound up by silly rules. How could a coach not support the opportunity of an athlete of Konchellah's caliber to train in world class company a couple of times a week ? Sounds to me like an effort to avoid sharing any credit for the athlete's success ...
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Re: High School Underclass Overachievers

Postby unclezadok » Sat May 04, 2013 1:38 pm

doug5321 wrote:with the cunningham brother and sister combination 13feet 3 and 1/4 is the cumulative height a record for a brother sister? what is the best brother-sister high jump combo ever?

thank you


It's probably Sotomayor and whatever his sister jumped if he has a sister.
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