Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!


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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby lionelp1 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:51 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
ATK wrote:Considering Gardner ran 11 flat, and Jeter was clearly about to run past her, she was easily on her way to a 10.9x


She was already passing her after EG got a very good start and Jeter was 'methodical' out of the blocks. A great start might have gotten her to a 10.8 sans cramp.

I just saw the videoclip. Jeter passed Gardner at 40m and was a half-meter ahead of her with 35m to go. Had she finished, she would easily have been at least a meter ahead. She most certainly would have run 10.8x.

No argument, as Jeter looked to do something very good for the third week in April
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby Flumpy » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:20 am

aaronk wrote:She can run 51.09 in the 400......should be capable of 1:56.


HUH??? :shock: :lol: :roll:
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby Gabriella » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:24 am

Demus's 800m times this season have been pretty poor (on another thread someone posted two other races where she ran 2:08-2:09)

You would think most elite female 400m hurdlers should be able to run 2:05 unless they are very much speed based (Privalova, Antyukh, Tirlea..)

Nicola Sanders was a former 400mhurdler and ran 2:03.41 at Mt SAC back in 2009, off the back of her 50.71 in 2008. She is faster on the flat than Demus but you would think Demus would be running closer to that time. Sanya Richards-Ross's had that 2:10 over 800m a few years ago; again you'd expect more, but again she is speed based.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby batonless relay » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:59 am

Absolutely Demus should be running at least sub-2:05 but every finalist for the womens 400 should be able to do it as well. 2:05 just isn't an impossible task for someone with sub-51s speed. But, just because she hasn't doesn't mean she can't. The pacing has to be understood; and for an athlete who has spent the last 10+ years seemingly not understanding the pacing of her own event its no surprise to me that she doesn't have it right in the 800m either. Then there's also that fallacy that 400h have more "endurance" than 400 runners when the training between the two events, 90% of the time, is nearly identical, if not the same; 400h just tend to be slower 400m runners - not 800m runners who can hurdle. 400h are NOT 800m runners - which is why so few 800m runners move down to the 400h (Tamsyn Lewis exempted) and why so few 400h ever run really fast 800m (Patrick and Schmid exempted). 400h is about rhythm and 800m is about pacing exhibiting 2 different types of strength. 400 is an entirely different animal, but no less deadly.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in "speed-based v non-speed based". At 400m there is enough aerobic stimulus in training to run the low(er/est) end of an elite 800m. There's a reason why Russian coaches move their 400m women to the 800 with regular success.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:10 am

batonless relay wrote:Absolutely Demus should be running at least sub-2:05 but every finalist for the womens 400 should be able to do it as well. 2:05 just isn't an impossible task for someone with sub-51s speed.

Not so fast (pun!).
The track world is rife with athletes who tried to move up to the next distance but couldn't run what they "should" have been able to.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby batonless relay » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:19 am

Marlow wrote:
batonless relay wrote:Absolutely Demus should be running at least sub-2:05 but every finalist for the womens 400 should be able to do it as well. 2:05 just isn't an impossible task for someone with sub-51s speed.

Not so fast (pun!).
The track world is rife with athletes who tried to move up to the next distance but couldn't run what they "should" have been able to.

Good point...and I agree; but 2:05 is completely different than 1:57. A 51 second person might move up and run 1:57 if they got everything right; however, a 51 second person moving up SHOULD run 2:05. 2:05 for a 51s person is the equivalent of a 54 for a 23 second person; hard, but very possible if you already have the speed.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:54 am

Hey guys and gals.....this thread was SUPPOSED to be about the great forward leap made in our T&F world over this past weekend......and to give some examples.....

NOT about Lashinda Demus's 800 potential, nor about Marita Koch or....Ben Johnson :shock: !!
Though I should probably blame myself for starting it....by saying that Demus's 2:08 at Mt SAC was MUCH slower than what I think her potential is in the 800.

But the same could be said about Morgan Uceny's 2:05.50 or Carmelita Jeter's 11.68 (or whatever she ran!).
They too can obviously go a LOT faster!!
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby CookyMonzta » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:03 pm

aaronk wrote:Hey guys and gals.....this thread was SUPPOSED to be about the great forward leap made in our T&F world over this past weekend......and to give some examples.....

NOT about Lashinda Demus's 800 potential, nor about Marita Koch or....Ben Johnson :shock: !!
Though I should probably blame myself for starting it....by saying that Demus's 2:08 at Mt SAC was MUCH slower than what I think her potential is in the 800.

But the same could be said about Morgan Uceny's 2:05.50 or Carmelita Jeter's 11.68 (or whatever she ran!).
They too can obviously go a LOT faster!!

And just in case some of you are still looking for an athlete to use as a measuring stick for a sprinter's potential in the 800, why has no one mentioned Jearl Miles-Clark? She started experimenting with the 800 in 1995 (when last I checked), but she didn't give it serious consideration until 1997, as she ended that year with an AR 1:56.78. Her PRs are 23.03 (?), 49.40 (1997) and 1:56.40 (1999). She ran 1:57.27 for 6th at Athens 2004, a month from her 38th birthday. She was 2 months from her 31st birthday when she ran her 400 PR.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby DoubleRBar » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:33 pm

I was at the Mt. SAC Relays this past weekend and was very impressed with two high schoolers. One was Courtney Corrin who won the high school long jump (girls) at 20' 10" and Randall Cunningham, who won the boys high jump at 7' 3".

Both athletes aren't even in their senior year of high school. Randall is a junior and Courtney is a ninth grader. I saw both of them win at Arcadia earlier this month. Both athletes look very polished, very smooth, and on their way to greatness (I hope).

Anyone know much about Harvard/Weslake School in Southern California? That's where Courtney goes to high school. They have had some pretty good track and field athletes. I know it is a private school in the San Fernando Valley (Studio City/North Hollywood?).
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:20 pm

DoubleRBar wrote:Randall Cunningham, who won the boys high jump at 7' 3".

Former Eagle QB has quite the brood. The baby sister, a freshman, has already jumped 5-10! :shock:
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby gktrack » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:16 pm

DoubleRBar wrote:Anyone know much about Harvard/Weslake School in Southern California? That's where Courtney goes to high school. They have had some pretty good track and field athletes. I know it is a private school in the San Fernando Valley (Studio City/North Hollywood?).

Great program, great coaches, so she's in good hands... You'll recognize a few of the coaches there: Oly gold medalists and Joanna Hayes and Felix Sanchez, and Quincy Watts was there for a while as well.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby gktrack » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: all the Demus talk...
She holds H.S. and US Junior/Senior records, and has been the best 400H hurdler in the world since maternity leave. For those same last few years she has taken a weekend trip in late-March and runs in a small meet in San Diego… she runs an even “slower” mid-2:10, each time… then proceeds to go on to win WC gold and Oly silver.
So, in mid-April she wakes up and feeds the kids breakfast, drives a half-hour to Mt. SAC and runs a 2:08, when I believe her “PR” (if you want to call it that) from May 2012 is 2:07.49. With her track record, I’ll take her 2:08 in a heartbeat… and even more so given she has a WC bye, is likely in heavy training mode, and is properly peaking for Moscow. Maybe some can run better 800’s, others not, it doesn’t matter… because whatever Lashinda is doing seems to be working just fine.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby Master Po » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:51 pm

^well said.^
:)
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby olorin » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:47 pm

Here is the world (and US) leading at the same time (23/04) last year:
Men:
100: blake 9.90, Sallam (9.98)
200: Spearmon 19.95
400: Rooney (GBR) 44.92, Wariner 44.96
800: Rudisha 1:44.33, Solomon 1:45.83
1500: Torrence 3:35.66
5000: Birmingham (AUS) 13:15.57, True 13:26.56
10000: Mathathi (JPN) 27:35.16, ???
110h: Oliver 13.17
400h: Jackson 48:20
HJ: Robertson 2.32
PV: Otto (GER) 5.82, Walker 5.72
LJ: Mokoena 8.29, Claye 8.25
TJ: Hernandez (CUB) 17.49, Wilson 17.07
SP: Hoffa 21.73
DT: Okoye (GBR) 66.67, Winger 65.48
HT: Krivitskiy (BLR) 79.37, Kruger 75.46
JT: Makarov (RUS) 83.39, Glover 81.31
Dec: Cortzen (RSA) 8244, Murphy 8067
Women:
100: Duncan 11.05
200: Jeter 22.31
400: SRR 50.18
800: Semenya 1:59.58, Beckwith 2:00.34
1500: Kipyego (KEN) 4:08.59, ???
5000: Huddle: 15.15.91
10000: Niiya (JPN) 31:28.26
100h: Pearson 12:49, Manning 12.68
400h: Brown 54.88
HJ: Lowe 2:00
PV: Boyd 4.76, Viuf 4.45
LJ: Reese 7.12
TJ: Alcantara (CUB) 14.41, ???
SP: Adams (NZL) 20.67, Camarena- Williams 19.82
DT: Okoye (GBR) 66.67, Winger 65.48
HT: Muller, 68.89, ???
JT: Ratej (SLO) 65.24, Borman 59.42
Hep: Day 6337
Last edited by olorin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby gktrack » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:56 pm

olorin - great summary... with no words, you put everything into perspective.
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Re: Whatta Weekend! Many changes, several shockers!

Postby gh » Sun May 12, 2013 7:40 am

gktrack wrote:Re: all the Demus talk...
She holds H.S. and US Junior/Senior records, and has been the best 400H hurdler in the world since maternity leave. For those same last few years she has taken a weekend trip in late-March and runs in a small meet in San Diego… she runs an even “slower” mid-2:10, each time… then proceeds to go on to win WC gold and Oly silver.
So, in mid-April she wakes up and feeds the kids breakfast, drives a half-hour to Mt. SAC and runs a 2:08, when I believe her “PR” (if you want to call it that) from May 2012 is 2:07.49. With her track record, I’ll take her 2:08 in a heartbeat… and even more so given she has a WC bye, is likely in heavy training mode, and is properly peaking for Moscow. Maybe some can run better 800’s, others not, it doesn’t matter… because whatever Lashinda is doing seems to be working just fine.


Demus PRed in the 100 yesterday at Azusa: 11.61 (maybe first 100 ever?) (nah, everybody has a 100 somewhere in their past, right?)
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