Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]


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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th

Postby rainy.here » Sun May 05, 2013 7:50 pm

mump boy wrote:Apparently a damp track means really fast times :?


If it has been raining the air density decreases and can lead to fast times.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby JRM » Sun May 05, 2013 8:15 pm

jamboy wrote:In 2009, Bolt was involved in a major car crash, injured his foot, lost weeks of training. Don't let me remind you guys what he did in Berlin.


In 2009, Bolt was four years younger.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby jamboy » Sun May 05, 2013 8:58 pm

JRM wrote:
jamboy wrote:In 2009, Bolt was involved in a major car crash, injured his foot, lost weeks of training. Don't let me remind you guys what he did in Berlin.


In 2009, Bolt was four years younger.



Bolt will be 26 this year and still in his prime .
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby bignate88 » Sun May 05, 2013 9:04 pm

jamboy wrote:
bignate88 wrote:
jamboy wrote:
Tyson will be no higher than third in Moscow. If he remain healthy, I predict he will get the bronze over Gatlin.

Gatlin however needs to learn to lean. He rarely does.

I'm telling you now: Bolt and Blake are NOT a lock for Gold and silver in Moscow. Tyson Gay can very well claim the gold this year even with the Jamaicans in top shape.


I'll definitely not anything your smoking :D

In 2009, Bolt was involved in a major car crash, injured his foot, lost weeks of training. Don't let me remind you guys what he did in Berlin.

Bolt and Blake will be fine come Moscow. Guaranteed. 1-2 on the podium.

Hogwash! That crash had NO adverse effects on his fitness. The story was used to sensationalize his 2009 feats. Bottom line.
A REAL reason would be the fact that TG had a groin issue in 09 AND had to lay off some of his strength training for quite some time, and still managed to run 9.71.
A healthy Tyson is the only one right now who can actually challenge Bolt or Blake for the gold, but your pride won't let you admit it and I understand. We all our favorites. But the reality is, there are NO GUARANTEES as it stands
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby nicest person ever » Sun May 05, 2013 9:23 pm

JRM wrote:In 2009, Bolt was four years younger.


This seems like a rather poor counter-argument to me. The prime age for 100m sprinters usually seems to be somewhere in the 25-28 age range. Bolt is right in the middle of it. If anything, the argument you are making is perfectly backwards, as in, it could be used in the opposite way (that it is a BENEFIT to him to be 4 years older now, because he was still too young at that point and not really in his true physiological prime as a sprinter yet.

I mean, look, I'm an American, born and raised, and have no association whatsoever with Jamaica, and I obviously find some of Jamboy's posts to be pretty blindly pro-Jamaican/anti-American to a rather ridiculous extent at times, BUT, that said, I'm not going to just throw logic out the window just to try to take sides against any position Jamboy ever takes. In this particular case, Jamboy is in the right, imo, to say that Bolt and Blake will probably be very serious threats in Moscow if they are healthy. It is indeed true that the types of arguments people are making about this looking like "clearly and off year for Bolt" were made, in basically identical fashion, if not MORE severe fashion, in previous seasons in which Bolt then went on to do unthinkable things in the championship settings, going 9.5x or 9.6x when people were suspecting he would be defeated.

Do I want to be wrong, and for Gay to run a 9.5x WR PR in the 100m finals in Moscow and beat Bolt by a hundredth in the race of the century? YES! But do I think it is logical, at the moment, to just flat out count out Bolt and Blake and say it looks like the title is currently Gay's to lose just based on this one 9.8x run of his in May? No. I think he has a real CHANCE at getting gold. But I don't think he's the favorite, and definitely not some sort of obvious pick the way people are making it out to be in this thread.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby lionelp1 » Sun May 05, 2013 10:47 pm

Clearly an ""off year for Bolt" What planet have some of you guys descended from?

The year has not started by May 6th and 3 full months to the WC.. What has Bolt done in serious comp this year. Nothing yet apart from some fun in Rio over 150m.
I luv to read to the weird stuff here about the two best sprinters in the world being challenged by Gay, but who is, sadly, as likely to be injured by the WC as not.
All the interpreting about the value of performances due to wind is not worth a piece of ..... just concentrate on what happens when the athletes meet.Speculative stuff matters not a jot, imo.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby eldanielfire » Sun May 05, 2013 11:55 pm

lionelp1 wrote:Clearly an ""off year for Bolt" What planet have some of you guys descended from?

The year has not started by May 6th and 3 full months to the WC.. What has Bolt done in serious comp this year. Nothing yet apart from some fun in Rio over 150m.
I luv to read to the weird stuff here about the two best sprinters in the world being challenged by Gay, but who is, sadly, as likely to be injured by the WC as not.
All the interpreting about the value of performances due to wind is not worth a piece of ..... just concentrate on what happens when the athletes meet.Speculative stuff matters not a jot, imo.


In that regard Gay is an equal with Blake and both are challenging for silver. I do wonder if Blake's zealous lust for hard training is taking it's toll already. It's no coincidence when Bolt droped sub 9.7x times other sprinters appear to hit injuries trying to up their game trying to do the same.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby shivfan » Mon May 06, 2013 12:11 am

jamboy wrote:
Daisy wrote:
jamboy wrote:
JRM wrote:Yes, things are looking good. Gay should have no trouble claiming the 100m title.

Please clarify your statement. You mean the US 100m title.

I doubt it. JRM is thinking Moscow. Bolt has not looked very sharp this year. No doubt his advertising commitments are catching up to him. Not training as regularly, or as hard. Eating too much junk food and staying up late. It's pretty clear that this year will be a year off for him.


It will not be a year off. Bolt has always eaten junk food and has said that people shouldn't follow what he eats. Bolt parties hard and works out even harder on the track. He has always been this way.

He didn't look sharp at the trials last year. Don't let me remind you what he did a few weeks later in London.

Bolt will be fine.

This junk food story is taken way out of proportion....Bolt only said he ate chicken nuggets in Beijing, because he didn't trust the food that was there for athletes to eat, especially with reports of some athletes getting upset stomachs.

"They were the only food I could properly trust which wouldn't affect my stomach. On arriving at the training camp I'd tried a local Chinese meal, which wasn't like the ones we eat in the West, and my body didn't react well. So, knowing I could rely on nuggets, I made up my mind that was all I would eat (in Beijing). And eat them I did, 15 at a time, for breakfast, lunch and dinner, washed down with bottled water." 'Usain Bolt: My Story', p108

He likes the traditional Jamaican meal of ackee and saltfish, and loves his pork accompanied by dumplings, green banana and yam, and he enjoys chicken and rice and peas, like any Jamaican. p196

Bolt says he eats pasta largely because Mills says he should, but he's not keen on it, because he feels hungry two hours later! pp195, 240

Often, when Bolt is in Europe, his friend "NJ" travels with him, and cooks the food Mills prefers to see him eat.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon May 06, 2013 2:41 am

The big difference between Bolt and the other runners is that while Bolt can to make 9.7 not very hard, the others for to get 9.7 have to run near his limit.
For Bolt to run near his limit is 9.5.
It is very big difference in my opinion

Bolt can lose of course, but only if he is injuried or in very bad shape.
With good shape and 90-95% like we saw in London(and not very good start), no rivals...
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 4:08 am

Bolt can lose, and the only year where his dominance was questionable was when he false started, possibly partially because of the pressure. His gap over Blake is likely to be a bit smaller and Gay might be up there with Blake or...
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby mump boy » Mon May 06, 2013 4:44 am

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread !!

Gay has a great early season run and before anyone else has even started their season he's the favourite for Moscow :?

Very strange reasoning :roll:
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby Marlow » Mon May 06, 2013 4:57 am

mump boy wrote:There's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread !!
Gay has a great early season run and before anyone else has even started their season he's the favourite for Moscow :?
Very strange reasoning :roll:

It DOES make him a clearer choice behind Bolt/Blake.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 5:43 am

mump boy wrote:There's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread !!

Gay has a great early season run and before anyone else has even started their season he's the favourite for Moscow :?

Very strange reasoning :roll:


This is a rather skewed (to one poster, possibly) take on the thread. Statements that Bolt does not have a guaranteed Gold suddenly the posts are taken to be saying that Gay is the favorite? point out which posts you have in mind for that statement.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby mump boy » Mon May 06, 2013 6:11 am

No one is ever guaranteed gold but Bolt is as big a favourite as there is right now !!

If someone runs 1.42 next week is David Rudisha favourite status going to be questioned ?

If someone throws 20m is Valerie suddenly in trouble

Tyson ran a moderately fast time early season, he didn't run 9.5/6/7 it tells us NOTHING about Moscow and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what Bolt or Blake might do.

Making him even in the mix for the gold right now is just disrespectful to someone he hasn't beaten in 6 years

Does that mean it can't happen ? of course not but this run doesn't warrant such speculation
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby eldanielfire » Mon May 06, 2013 6:19 am

mump boy wrote:No one is ever guaranteed gold but Bolt is as big a favourite as there is right now !!

If someone runs 1.42 next week is David Rudisha favourite status going to be questioned ?

If someone throws 20m is Valerie suddenly in trouble

Tyson ran a moderately fast time early season, he didn't run 9.5/6/7 it tells us NOTHING about Moscow and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what Bolt or Blake might do.

Making him even in the mix for the gold right now is just disrespectful to someone he hasn't beaten in 6 years

Does that mean it can't happen ? of course not but this run doesn't warrant such speculation


People are excited because Gay is a proven challenger and him running so quickly early in the season means he'll likely be capable of more come august, especially as Blake preparation has been hampered by injury. I do think some comments are a tad jumping the gun but all that has held Gay back in the past is injury and Bolt.

And you were the one bigging up Christine Ohuruoghu's 50.something time because it was so early in the season as something to be afraid of? We haven't see Montsho, Richards-Ross or most of the usual Russian challengers and Natasha Hastings seems to be in even more devastating form. Surely this is no different than what you have been doing?
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 6:24 am

mump boy wrote:Making him even in the mix for the gold right now is just disrespectful to someone he hasn't beaten in 6 years


Really?
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby gh » Mon May 06, 2013 6:37 am

mump uses the Mayan Calendar or something.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon May 06, 2013 6:51 am

I imagine that mump talks in a big champsionship and yes, Bolt is not beaten in 6 years.
False start in Daegu is not lose for me and for a lot of people(i read articles IAAF and they dont count it like defeat neither).
Then his last defeat in race in a big championship is 200m Osaka against Gay...
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby marknhj » Mon May 06, 2013 7:10 am

I think JRM and Daisy are right. Sooner-or-later an athlete's lifestyle, eating habits, partying, drinking, late nights, traveling, lack of motivation, avoidance of challenges etc, catch up with them. This could be Gay and the American's year of resurgence.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby Marlow » Mon May 06, 2013 7:15 am

ZELLGADISS wrote:False start in Daegu is not lose for me and for a lot of people(i read articles IAAF and they dont count it like defeat neither).

A FS most certainly IS a loss. He showed up for the race and did not win, same as an injury. On the other hand, it does nothing to diminish his invincibility. That said, I still suspect that Blake is on the rise and Bolt is not, so it's just a question (to me) of when those lines will intersect. Definitely (IMO) before Rio, but Moscow? Prob not.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon May 06, 2013 7:51 am

Marlow is your point of view.
I read articles IAAF or other sites and they dont count that race like loss for Bolt, he was not running.
And for me is not loss.
If he runs and is injured at 60m, of course it is a loss.

For me it is very sure, if Bolt is healthy and in good shape, he is invincible, no doubts.
IF he is not good, Blake or Gay can defeat him, no doubts neither :wink:
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby trackinblack2 » Mon May 06, 2013 7:53 am

26mi235 wrote:Dix may be the best US 200 runner when he gets in form, although Gay may be running it this year after several years of almost no 200s.

As for the w200, the big losers were those in 6/7/8 -- big names with pretty mediocre marks; although it is early for those three also.

Could some one tell me why Spearmon,who once ran 19.6? is still running 20.3?. Is it
lack of decent Coaching or just lack of effort on his part? Every year I think Wallace will
wake up and decide to run the first hundred like he wants to win. Doggonnit this guy makes me crazy!
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ATK » Mon May 06, 2013 7:57 am

ZELLGADISS wrote:Marlow is your point of view.
I read articles IAAF or other sites and they dont count that race like loss for Bolt, he was not running.
And for me is not loss.
If he runs and is injured at 60m, of course it is a loss.

For me it is very sure, if Bolt is healthy and in good shape, he is invincible, no doubts.
IF he is not good, Blake or Gay can defeat him, no doubts neither :wink:

It's not opinion, it's fact. A false start is a loss. Just like an in race dq or anything like that. Bolt simply did not beat the other runners in the race.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 8:00 am

The 100 m at the DN Galan meeting [2010] in Stockholm saw Gay's first match-up of the year against Bolt. He surprised the Olympic and World champion with a resounding victory, beating him with 9.84 to Bolt's 9.97 seconds.

Are people forgetting this race?
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon May 06, 2013 8:02 am

ATK then explain me why in the articles IAAF and other sites about Track and Field, they dont count it like loss?I dont think that they are stupid :roll:

Bolt dit not win but he did not run neither.....
IF other sites tell other thing, i dont think that it is A FACT
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby aaronk » Mon May 06, 2013 8:03 am

Bolt says he's running the 100 Wednesday.
We'll see what kind of statement he makes!!
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon May 06, 2013 8:04 am

yes aaronk, Bolt soon in Cayman.
If the wind is positive, 9.8 perfectly i imagine 8-)
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby eldanielfire » Mon May 06, 2013 8:28 am

26mi235 wrote:
mump boy wrote:Making him even in the mix for the gold right now is just disrespectful to someone he hasn't beaten in 6 years


Really?


2010 was 6 years ago? Time really does fly.....
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby eldanielfire » Mon May 06, 2013 8:32 am

marknhj wrote:I think JRM and Daisy are right. Sooner-or-later an athlete's lifestyle, eating habits, partying, drinking, late nights, traveling, lack of motivation, avoidance of challenges etc, catch up with them. This could be Gay and the American's year of resurgence.


While Tyson Gay doesn't drink, he admits that he hits the McDonalds hard at the weekend.

I also think Bolts partying is over played, he lets off steam big time and quite famously but lives the usual boring athlete life for most of the year. I actually think his avoidance of challenges is good for his long term health. He's not hammering or pulling his hamstrings to their limits and less wear and tear.

I don't think he lacks motivation, it's clear in 2012 it was he'll be a legend and nothing else. He's already said Rio 2016 will be the end of him and he'll want to put his reputation as legendary sprinter out of reach, plenty of talented Jamaicans who will want that crown in future.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby kellits2gnv » Mon May 06, 2013 8:51 am

eldanielfire wrote:
marknhj wrote:I think JRM and Daisy are right. Sooner-or-later an athlete's lifestyle, eating habits, partying, drinking, late nights, traveling, lack of motivation, avoidance of challenges etc, catch up with them. This could be Gay and the American's year of resurgence.


While Tyson Gay doesn't drink, he admits that he hits the McDonalds hard at the weekend.

I also think Bolts partying is over played, he lets off steam big time and quite famously but lives the usual boring athlete life for most of the year. I actually think his avoidance of challenges is good for his long term health. He's not hammering or pulling his hamstrings to their limits and less wear and tear.

I don't think he lacks motivation, it's clear in 2012 it was he'll be a legend and nothing else. He's already said Rio 2016 will be the end of him and he'll want to put his reputation as legendary sprinter out of reach, plenty of talented Jamaicans who will want that crown in future.


If anything, Bolt parties more than you'd imagine. His partying is definitely not overstated.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ExCoastRanger » Mon May 06, 2013 8:58 am

aaronk wrote:Bolt says he's running the 100 Wednesday.
We'll see what kind of statement he makes!!


Wow -- he healed up quickly!
Of course he wasn't ducking Gay or anything....
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon May 06, 2013 9:06 am

ducking? :lol: :lol:
Bolt went to run 200m.
Blake went to run 100m.
When Blake was out in 100m, was when Gay went to 100, last hour.
was then Gay ducking with Blake? :lol:

Bolt sure no
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby lionelp1 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:13 am

Some of you posters can hardly wait for Gay to beat Bolt, not even subtle; the fact is a defeat in a DL matters not a damn; all that matters to 99.9% of fans is the big ones, and Gay, though an acknowledged fine sprinter, is not a legend as is Bolt.
If Bolts motivation is in order then a fit Gay will not beat a fit Bolt. Over and out.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby toyracer » Mon May 06, 2013 9:14 am

JRM wrote:
jamboy wrote:In 2009, Bolt was involved in a major car crash, injured his foot, lost weeks of training. Don't let me remind you guys what he did in Berlin.


In 2009, Bolt was four years younger.


Ummm, not to be rude but... wasn't everyone that will be on the start line in the Moscow final four years younger four years ago? Or is Bolt the only one that has aged?

I won't get into the "who will win" debate but I will say this; Tyson Gay looked good on Saturday night. Very good.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:48 am

The 'four years' was cited in terms of recovery from injuries (not saying I think that is a big deal, just trying to clarify [I do not think so; it might be a tiny consideration but if so, then just barely]).

As for the "DL does not matter"; the comment is utterly irrelevant in the context it was made. The claim was that Bolt had not lost in six years. That claim falls on multiple points and re-interpreting the unqualified comment to qualifications that: 1) it only applies to world championship events, not even national championship events; and 2) that false starts do not count, is about as weak as it gets.

The history is as it is. I think that mump just forgot about that one loss, and was discounting both the false start and the Jamaican Trials.

For the record, Track and Field News includes false starts in won-loss records, and that may have cost Aris Merritt the AOY for 2012.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby gh » Mon May 06, 2013 9:51 am

All high-end statistical bodies (think ATFS, FAST) count false starts as losses. As they should.

That part of proper number-keeping has been part of the sport since time immemorial, and no amount of obfuscation will change that fact.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby ZELLGADISS » Mon May 06, 2013 10:28 am

IAAF count false start like loss?
Because i read articles IAAF and they dont count it like loss...
Then?¿
To lose when you dont run is not very logical in my opinion :shock:
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby sprintdoc » Mon May 06, 2013 10:36 am

Surprised no one on here has commented on Bolt "skipping" Jamaican meet for Cayman meet just 4 days later! Saying he was too hurt to race then 4 days later race is pretty obvious. Sounds to me like he wasn't offered enough money to run in Kingston, not wanting to give the home town discount he has in the past.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby JRM » Mon May 06, 2013 10:43 am

ZELLGADISS wrote:IAAF count false start like loss?
Because i read articles IAAF and they dont count it like loss...
Then?¿
To lose when you dont run is not very logical in my opinion :shock:


He did run. Part of "running" is getting in the blocks and reacting to the gun. You don't get to re-define the event to save Bolt's (or anyone's) record.
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Re: Jamaica Invitational , May 4th [Gay 9.86 WL]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 06, 2013 10:46 am

ZELLGADISS wrote:IAAF count false start like loss?
Because i read articles IAAF and they dont count it like loss...
Then?¿
To lose when you dont run is not very logical in my opinion :shock:


What do you mean -- he did not run? He 'cheated' by leaving before the gun and was disqualified. He was entered in the 100m at the WC and did not win that event. Not winning seems to be like losing as far as all of the effects one can quantify. Look at it this way: The start is an important part of the 100m race, and he blew the start so he lost the race.
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