the Boston Marathon race thread


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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby lionelp1 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:13 am

Note that Joan Benoit Samuellson finished in 2 hours 50 mins today, just before her 56th birthday, so they tell me. Bloody impressive!!!!
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:18 am

DrJay wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:

Went onto the site at watchlive and got nowt :(


You didn't miss much.

Whaddayamean? They missed Larry Rawson!


That is right, I forgot. I still think it would have been better in Latin. Maybe next year. Also have the splits in Roman numerals.

Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:24 am

lionelp1 wrote:Note that Joan Benoit Samuellson finished in 2 hours 50 mins today, just before her 56th birthday, so they tell me. Bloody impressive!!!!


Her time of 2:50:29 breaks the age 55 record for women.
Old record was 2:52:14.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:39 am

I just read Sean Hartnett's Rube Goldberg version of a 'legal' course on the front page. What can you say, except it is idiotic. It is the Boston Marathon. Who really cares if it is aided, as long as it is the right distance.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby unclezadok » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:46 am

lionelp1 wrote:Note that Joan Benoit Samuellson finished in 2 hours 50 mins today, just before her 56th birthday, so they tell me. Bloody impressive!!!!


Well, SOMEBODY came to run. It figures that it would be Joan.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby booond » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:51 am

That article was less informative than Barbara Huebner's race commentary.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby exdrake » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:00 am

Not really sure what I just saw there especially (slow) on men's side in what sounded like good temps, neutral/negligible winds?

Aside: This was possibly Hartmann's last race for lack of sponsorship ($)--anyone know what 4th place money was and if top American gets additional dollars?

2nd aside: For all the ridiculous posts re potential times for Flanagan and Goucher...I would not have thought Goucher would be within a minute (approx.) of Flanagan. I would have guessed about 3 min behind. She ran well on apparently limited prep.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:11 am

exdrake wrote:Not really sure what I just saw there especially (slow) on men's side in what sounded like good temps, neutral/negligible winds?

Aside: This was possibly Hartmann's last race for lack of sponsorship ($)--anyone know what 4th place money was and if top American gets additional dollars?


Sponsor him for what exactly? The guy ran 2:12, which wouldn't have been in the top 10 Americans in the race 30 years ago. 4th was nice, but except for a brief mention in the papers tomorrow quickly forgotten.

Of course it was also 30 years ago, Benoit won, Meyer won, 76 Americans broke 2:20. Ah, the good old days.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:17 am

Conor Dary wrote:I just read Sean Hartnett's Rube Goldberg version of a 'legal' course on the front page. What can you say, except it is idiotic. It is the Boston Marathon. Who really cares if it is aided, as long as it is the right distance.



It is hardly a Rube Goldberg in any sense of the term. It simply starts at the 12mile (19.6km) Post and runs about 10Km to about the 6M (10K) Post, then turns back and does the last 20 miles (32K) on the standard set up. If they started at the half way point 21.1km Post They could run by Wellesley twice!


As for this quote, it is my opinion that the 'complaint' is irrelevant; he is beating guys that have run 2:05 and won Marathon Majors. People should understand that a good chunk of the improvement in marathon times over the last 20 years is due to the courses and how much faster they are, especially as runners learn to train for that type of race. What matters is where you finish, especially winning. These are not sprint races, they are running races where the object of the top runners is to win/place high. Do you think a runner would rather run 12:55 and place 5th in the OG 5000 or run 13:15 and place 1st (or second or third); not a chance.

Sponsor him for what exactly? The guy ran 2:12, which wouldn't have been in the top 10 Americans in the race 30 years ago. 4th was nice, but except for a brief mention in the papers tomorrow quickly forgotten.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby booond » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:28 am

When the runners racing to win took off they left Hartmann behind. He didn't race to win at the end, he raced to finish. That he was able to stick with his 2:12 game plan and that meant 4th is great for his wallet but it is more a function of pacing than skill level.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:32 am

The guy ran a fine race, in 4th. But he is still a 2:12 marathoner. I would be amazed anyone is clamoring to sponsor him or any big marathon paying more than usual to show up.

I think he did well because the East Africans don't know how to run that slow. Their muscles atrophied from lack of use.

And getting 5th in the OG is not the same as 4th in Boston, where the winning time was 2:10.

And as for Rube Goldberg I was thinking of the whole article. Measuring the wind at about 30 places along the course? It is like bird watching and looking for an Ivory Billed Woodpecker.

    We have spotted one sir! A gust of Wind!!!!

    Where, Where??

    Hereford St, sir!

    The race is illegal! Thank god, we caught that!
And an out and back course with that mob?

It is the Boston Marathon. If a Legal time is so important run the race on a track. That would be very non-Rube Goldbergian.
Last edited by Conor Dary on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:34 am

booond wrote:When the runners racing to win took off they left Hartmann behind. He didn't race to win at the end, he raced to finish. That he was able to stick with his 2:12 game plan and that meant 4th is great for his wallet but it is more a function of pacing than skill level.


Right. He ran to run 2:12, and everyone else fit into place. A fine idea in the circumstances.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby DrJay » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:49 am

Conor Dary wrote:That is right, I forgot. I still think it would have been better in Latin. Maybe next year. Also have the splits in Roman numerals.

Per kilocubit....
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:53 am

A lot of Americans do not have great PRs because they tend to run the two biggest US marathons, NYC and Boston [Chicago is faster, but conditions are inconsistent, although Boston and NY are also inconsistent]. While both are 'aided' course, they are systematically slower than the Rotterdam/Berlin/London set. If running a 2:05 there means that they can run 2:05 in NYC, then they would be nuts not to run away from the field -- but of course, they cannot. Boston and NYC and the OGs and WCs as well are typically Races, not Time Trials.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby kuha » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:58 am

26mi235 wrote:A lot of Americans do not have great PRs because they tend to run the two biggest US marathons, NYC and Boston.


You've got your cart before the horse. "A lot of Americans" are not fast enough to be flow in to run those other races. If we had consistent 2:04/05 guys, they'd have quite a few races to choose from, I suspect.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:09 am

kuha wrote:
26mi235 wrote:A lot of Americans do not have great PRs because they tend to run the two biggest US marathons, NYC and Boston.


You've got your cart before the horse. "A lot of Americans" are not fast enough to be flow in to run those other races. If we had consistent 2:04/05 guys, they'd have quite a few races to choose from, I suspect.


On the men side, Hall had his day in London, but that is probably past, while Ritz at 2:07 has a certain appeal overseas, but nothing say like the US scene.

On the women side, Flanagan and Goucher, while excellent runners, have far more financial appeal to the NYC and Boston folk, then say, London.

But of course, we left out the Chicago Marathon, which is fast and in the US, as Ritz showed last fall.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby lovetorun » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:18 am

Flanagan 4th and Goucher 6th just over a minute behind her. The times were slower than I thought...especially with the favorable weather. But a very interesting race...but show again, our best (Flanagan and Goucher) aren't quite there yet...as far as being able to run with the best East Africans. :(
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:24 am

The results seem a bit irrelevant now.
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby Swensen » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:39 am

Shalane ran a great race -as usual. When she knew she was beaten, she didn't quit. She gathered her foggy 24 mile self (you never been there then don't ask) and ran a wonderful proud finish over her home streets. Tell me you know a tougher more accomplished gritty US athlete, not just in track and field, but in all sports ?
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby TN1965 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:41 am

aaronk wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:Note that Joan Benoit Samuellson finished in 2 hours 50 mins today, just before her 56th birthday, so they tell me. Bloody impressive!!!!


Her time of 2:50:29 breaks the age 55 record for women.
Old record was 2:52:14.


Boston's course is not record eligible. So this record will remain unofficial, the same way Lyudmila Petrova's 2:25:43 from 2008 NYC is not offocially recognized as the Master's WR.

BTW, Christine Kennedy ran 2:55:18 to become the oldest woman (58) to break 3 hours. (Unofficially, of course.)
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Re: Boston: Will Shalane's Irish eyes be smiling after?

Postby aaronk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:16 pm

TN1965 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
lionelp1 wrote:Note that Joan Benoit Samuellson finished in 2 hours 50 mins today, just before her 56th birthday, so they tell me. Bloody impressive!!!!


Her time of 2:50:29 breaks the age 55 record for women.
Old record was 2:52:14.


Boston's course is not record eligible. So this record will remain unofficial, the same way Lyudmila Petrova's 2:25:43 from 2008 NYC is not offocially recognized as the Master's WR.

BTW, Christine Kennedy ran 2:55:18 to become the oldest woman (58) to break 3 hours. (Unofficially, of course.)


I got the info from ARRS.net.
They have EVERY age listed....from about 10 to the 90's!!
And for the 5K and 10K too....on the track....plus road distances.
Excellent site.
(Just discovered it today....searching out Joanie's possible age record.)
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby gh » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:53 pm

given the circumstances, I took the liberty of changing the thread title.
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby dl » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:00 pm

I'm Hartmann's agent, so perhaps I can add to the conversation a bit.

I only have results back through 1979 (so help me out if you know otherwise), but I think that the only other Americans to place in the top 4 more than once in the past 35 years or so are:

Bill Rodgers - 4 wins plus several other top finishes
John Lodwick - 4th in '81, 3rd in '82
Ron Tabb - 3rd in '80, 2nd in '83
Ryan Hall - 3rd in '09, 4th in '10, 4th in '10.

So what if his time was 2:12? He was 4th in a good race beating some quality athletes. If he'd run 2:08 and placed 10th, would you downplay his performance because he was beaten by so many competitors?

Making big decisions following a race is usually not a good idea, but Jason told me that after today's run that he's not retiring. He's no spring chicken, but I, for one, hope he keeps going through 2016!

I hesitated posting under the circumstances, but I need to do something to take my mind off things...
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:19 pm

Not official, but better than an official mark of the time from London, etc. Goucher surprised some, finishing only 50+ seconds behind Flanagan and getting 6th. I had guessed 2-6 for Flanagan and 5-10 for Goucher.
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby lovetorun » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:15 pm

26mi235 wrote:Not official, but better than an official mark of the time from London, etc. Goucher surprised some, finishing only 50+ seconds behind Flanagan and getting 6th. I had guessed 2-6 for Flanagan and 5-10 for Goucher.


Same as I guessed...and also surprized that Goucher was so close to Flanagan...2:27:08 to 2:28:11. She was over 3 minutes behind in their recent half marathon...so, I would say, for her level of condition, had a better race than Flanagan.
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby doug5321 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:00 am

joan benoit samuelson age 55 world record 2:50.29
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby kuha » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:00 pm

NPR just had a very nice interview with Amby Burfoot about the race & aftermath.
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby TN1965 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:51 pm

Burfoot was also interviewed on Rachel Maddow show last night.

(And Maddow had a rather nice introduction to the segment. )
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Re: the Boston Marathon race thread

Postby kuha » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:32 pm

TN1965 wrote:Burfoot was also interviewed on Rachel Maddow show last night.

(And Maddow had a rather nice introduction to the segment. )


Thanks for the info. I just found this piece and listened to it--it was very good.

Burfoot may not be "cool" and he never won any Olympic medals, but he's always been a great favorite of mine. He was the very first top runner whose name I actually knew, and who I saw in training (on the roads near my childhood home). And he's held up as a really thoughtful, articulate guy.
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