Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]


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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby EPelle » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:08 pm

Front-page article on Rowbury on Friday stated that she's also going to give the "A" shot a go.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:23 pm

I hope she runs faster however I think we're looking at 4:07 - 4:09 for Cain.

Which would be great.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby gh » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:42 pm

aaronk wrote:
DaveyGuy wrote:I wonder what Worth Thomas is going to do. Will she take it out fast like she did at trails in 2011?
No way is Cain going to lead. Look at USATF indoor mile, she just sat behind everyone intill the end. It works for her and she'll go with what works.


Cain's own Tweet said "Going for the "A"!".
And she's tended to follow Salazar's instructions to a T indoors.
So I'm wondering if she has Salazar's OK on her going for it.
If she IS going to try for it, and she has Salazar's OK, she WILL take the lead.....if necessary.

Somehow, I doubt that will be necessary, as I'm predicting others will also try for "A's".

BTW, it's spelled WUrth-Thomas, not WOrth. :D


Alberto just texted us to say that as far as he knows, Cain doesn't have a Twitter account, so it doesn't seem like it was her that said that.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Bob Duncan » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:09 pm

gh wrote:
aaronk wrote:
DaveyGuy wrote:I wonder what Worth Thomas is going to do. Will she take it out fast like she did at trails in 2011?
No way is Cain going to lead. Look at USATF indoor mile, she just sat behind everyone intill the end. It works for her and she'll go with what works.


Cain's own Tweet said "Going for the "A"!".
And she's tended to follow Salazar's instructions to a T indoors.
So I'm wondering if she has Salazar's OK on her going for it.
If she IS going to try for it, and she has Salazar's OK, she WILL take the lead.....if necessary.

Somehow, I doubt that will be necessary, as I'm predicting others will also try for "A's".

BTW, it's spelled WUrth-Thomas, not WOrth. :D


Alberto just texted us to say that as far as he knows, Cain doesn't have a Twitter account, so it doesn't seem like it was her that said that.


Ah, but the fantasies and possibilities of this race are tantalizing. It's got some momentum in a few of our minds now, who knows what tomorrow night shall bring???
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby aaronk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:10 pm

Been trying to verify whether it was Cain herself who tweeted "Going for the "A"!"......or just a fan club.
GH says Salazar doesn't think she has a Twitter acct.....and since her Facebook page (Which definitely IS hers!!) doesn't say she has a Twitter acct......I"ll assume for the moment she does NOT....and therefore did NOT send that tweet!!

However, I STILL believe she WILL be "Going for the "A"!.
Why??

1. Before Millrose, where she ran that 4:28, Salazar was quoted as saying she was in 4:25 shape. As she passed 1500 in 4:11 during that race, she would have passed 1500 in a 4:25 in 4:08. Almost two months ago, that leaves just 3 seconds to cut from her 1500 POTENTIAL of late February!!

2. Shannon Rowbury has apparently indicated that SHE is going for the "A". And as I've been saying, I can't imagine people like Simpson and Uceny would waste an effort in a field of this caliber....and NOT go for 4:05.50 or faster.

One question is whether there's a pacer for the race.
If there is, then an "A" chase is going to happen.
And if there is, I can't imagine Cain would just sit back and let it go on without her!

So my final guess is that, YES!, the "A" chase is a go....for Cain....and whomever else!!
And with her great kick.....I'd place EVEN ODDS on her.....WINNING!!

We'll know....in about 20 hours!!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Dutra5 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:12 pm

Lost in all of the previous hyperbole is the fact that Jamal, at least according to Letrun's homepage, is not running.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby donley2 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:08 pm

Not a snowballs chance in hell of an "A" tonight with these wind conditions. Unless they change dramatically and quickly.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby donley2 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:29 pm

Absolutely thrilled to be wrong. Fantastic run by Jen Simpson. 403. Unbelievable. High school record for Cain.

1 Jenny Simpson New Balance 4:03.35
2 Sheila Reid Nike 4:07.92
3 Kate Grace United States 4:08.24
4 Shannon Rowbury Nike 4:09.05
5 Gabriele Anderson United States 4:10.32
6 Mary Cain United States 4:10.77
7 Sarah Bowman New Balance 4:11.31
8 Emma Coburn Colorado 4:11.36
9 Morgan Uceny adidas 4:17.71
10 Ashley Miller Asics 4:19.86
11 Heather Kamph Asics 4:20.80
-- Renee Tomlin United States DNF
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby tc » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:13 pm

And it was still quite windy and cool here at Drake. Great job of pace setting by Renee Tomlin, and Cain wisely ran her own race, looking strong all the way through.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Bob Duncan » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:42 pm

Yeah, Jenny Simpson was FIERCE tonight!
I wonder what's up with Uceny? I hope that she is OK.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Brian » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:47 pm

Bob Duncan wrote:Yeah, Jenny Simpson was FIERCE tonight!



A great time under windy conditions...yup, she's definitely back on Wetmore/Burroughs' strength-emphasizing program--!
.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Master Po » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Yes -- excellent time for Simpson. Her 3:59.90 PB from 2009 is of course an outstanding performance, but this 4:03.35 is her 2nd best 1500 time. Her PB and her other 4:03-4:05 times are from later in the season (e.g., June & later). So, this is a really good mark for her.

Also, very good time for Reid -- her PB is 4:07.07 (July 2012) -- so, to run 4:07 in April bodes well for her, imo.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby olorin » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:32 pm

Master Po wrote:Yes -- excellent time for Simpson. Her 3:59.90 PB from 2009 is of course an outstanding performance, but this 4:03.35 is her 2nd best 1500 time. Her PB and her other 4:03-4:05 times are from later in the season (e.g., June & later). So, this is a really good mark for her.

Also, very good time for Reid -- her PB is 4:07.07 (July 2012) -- so, to run 4:07 in April bodes well for her, imo.

Just to complete the picture:
Kate Grace's 4:08.24 is a new PB (previous PB 4:10.57). A new name for me - she is 23 years old and a former (?) 800 runner (PB 2:01.63). I guess with the current depth in the 800 in the US she has a better chance in the 1,500.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby EPelle » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:43 pm

Shades of Barcelona

Barcelona: 4.04, 4.07, 4.08, 4.09, 4.09, 4.11,01 HSR
Drake Rel: 4.03, 4.07, 4.08, 4.09, 4.10, 4.10,77 HSR
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby nevetsllim » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:43 am

Wow. Really pleased for Jenny. Her second fastest time ever and I didn't realise her PB was set back when she was still predominantly a steeplechaser.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby gh » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:04 am

all-time HS top 10 now posted to front page.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby az2004 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:12 am

just saw yhe race on espn3

simpson looked very strong

august is a long ways off and who knows who will be peaked then, but jenny looked good for april
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby odelltrclan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:09 am

Aaronk after all the hype and speculation leading up to the race and not a peep since? Come on and give us your take on it!
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby kuha » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:15 am

odelltrclan wrote:Aaronk after all the hype and speculation leading up to the race and not a peep since? Come on and give us your take on it!


On "vacation."
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby odelltrclan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:38 pm

kuha wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:Aaronk after all the hype and speculation leading up to the race and not a peep since? Come on and give us your take on it!


On "vacation."


Must have missed that one. Just watched the replay of the race. Good to see Simpson looking so strong and enthused. That was a fantastic run, especially given the conditions and just hope she peaks at the right time this year. Saw Brenda Martinez at Penn today. She is looking very strong as well. Hope to see her mix it up with some of these other ladies in a big race soon.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Gleason » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:15 pm

donley2 wrote:Absolutely thrilled to be wrong. Fantastic run by Jen Simpson. 403. Unbelievable. High school record for Cain.

1 Jenny Simpson New Balance 4:03.35
2 Sheila Reid Nike 4:07.92
3 Kate Grace United States 4:08.24
4 Shannon Rowbury Nike 4:09.05
5 Gabriele Anderson United States 4:10.32
6 Mary Cain United States 4:10.77
7 Sarah Bowman New Balance 4:11.31
8 Emma Coburn Colorado 4:11.36
9 Morgan Uceny adidas 4:17.71
10 Ashley Miller Asics 4:19.86
11 Heather Kamph Asics 4:20.80
-- Renee Tomlin United States DNF

What happened to Morgan Uceny? Did she fall again?
Last edited by Gleason on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Tuariki » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:42 pm

odelltrclan wrote:Aaronk after all the hype and speculation leading up to the race and not a peep since? Come on and give us your take on it!

Same here. I hope Aaronk is ok as it concerns me he has made no comment. He made 32 postings on 25, 26 April. Given his fascination with Mary Cain it doesn't seem like him not to have commented within seconds of the race finishing.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:27 pm

For those interested the reason for his....vacation...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50431
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Brian » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:20 pm

Conor Dary wrote:For those interested the reason for his....vacation...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50431


Well, at least now we won't have that exclamation mark shortage of which scholars have recently warned.

[I do like Aaron's enthusiasm, though. Revved down a notch--as was suggested--it should all balance out.]
.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Brian » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:26 pm

Most of the people I have spoken with about Cain have tapped into Salazar's attitude: she is a great talent and if she is developed properly, there are a lot of good things ahead. And as fans of the sport, there is plenty of time to simply enjoy what happens without inadvertently putting pressure on her or any of her collaborators by engaging in wild speculation.

[Robin Williams preacher voice]

Can I hear an "Amen", brothers--?!!?

.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Gleason » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:53 pm

Brian wrote:Most of the people I have spoken with about Cain have tapped into Salazar's attitude: she is a great talent and if she is developed properly, there are a lot of good things ahead. And as fans of the sport, there is plenty of time to simply enjoy what happens without inadvertently putting pressure on her or any of her collaborators by engaging in wild speculation.
[Robin Williams preacher voice]
Can I hear an "Amen", brothers--?!!?
.

I agree. If she fails to make the team for the Senior World Championships - as I expect - she can qualify for the Youth World Championships at St. Louis two days later. She could make the team at either 1500 or 800, but if she wants to double only 3000 and 2000St. is a reasonable double at the US and World Championships.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby JumboElliott » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:28 pm

I hope she forgoes the USATF meet and focuses on winning at World Youths.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:22 pm

Gleason wrote: If she fails to make the team for the Senior World Championships - as I expect - she can qualify for the Youth World Championships at St. Louis two days later. She could make the team at either 1500 or 800, but if she wants to double only 3000 and 2000St. is a reasonable double at the US and World Championships.


I think that you can only run one race longer than 400m at Youth Worlds, I think.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Gleason » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:31 pm

Thanks for the info. According to T&FN winning times at the 2011 World Youth at 800, 1500 and 3000 were faster than Cain's PRs, so one race there makes sense.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:18 pm

Gleason wrote:
donley2 wrote:Absolutely thrilled to be wrong. Fantastic run by Jen Simpson. 403. Unbelievable. High school record for Cain.

1 Jenny Simpson New Balance 4:03.35
2 Sheila Reid Nike 4:07.92
3 Kate Grace United States 4:08.24
4 Shannon Rowbury Nike 4:09.05
5 Gabriele Anderson United States 4:10.32
6 Mary Cain United States 4:10.77
7 Sarah Bowman New Balance 4:11.31
8 Emma Coburn Colorado 4:11.36
9 Morgan Uceny adidas 4:17.71
10 Ashley Miller Asics 4:19.86
11 Heather Kamph Asics 4:20.80
-- Renee Tomlin United States DNF

What happened to Morgan Uceny? Did she fall again?


Pretty much straight to the rear and stayed there.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby odelltrclan » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:45 am

Gleason wrote:Thanks for the info. According to T&FN winning times at the 2011 World Youth at 800, 1500 and 3000 were faster than Cain's PRs, so one race there makes sense.


That might be the one meet when competing with other youth she may be challenged. But in the U.S. there is very little of that unless she wants to mix it up with the elite. So I guess it comes down to what motivates her.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake

Postby Gleason » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:58 am

Gleason wrote:
donley2 wrote:What happened to Morgan Uceny? Did she fall again?

Pretty much straight to the rear and stayed there.

Thanks for the update.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby booond » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:35 pm

Cain will have to run against Senior Women but expectations must be tempered as she's 16. She will not break the AR this year, if ever. She is not likely to make the WC team this year, if ever.

Best thing for her is to gain experience running multiple heats in the US Champs then run against the best in the world her age. Building her up without burning her out is key to her development. Since Salazar has done this with Rupp it is possible he'll be good for Cain, too. Running 4:10 is great but the winner ran 4:03. Perspective.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby TxHottrack » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:30 am

I don't see this young girl heading to college coming her senior year. Especially, if she contines to compete this way next season. Well, let me correct myself. I can see her in college but not competing for her college team.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:35 pm

booond wrote:Cain will have to run against Senior Women but expectations must be tempered as she's 16. She will not break the AR this year, if ever. She is not likely to make the WC team this year, if ever.



I hope a national sweep of razor blades was done before you typed this. :lol:
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:48 pm

Does Cain still compete in high school meets? I could easily see her single-handedly almost winning a team championship by herself if she ran just fast enough to win multiple events, before flexing her muscles in her final event.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:05 pm

Well, Laura Roesler did a wide range and won almost all of her four events most of her four (plus) years. However, Cain is in New York, not North Dakota, so beating a bunch of decent runners would be a stiffer task. I would think that the 800/1600/3200 triple would be all she could garner (except that Bronxville has a pretty good relay team or two).

Of course, the bigger the state, the more the points of opponents will be split as well. A few years back a gal in Texas single-highhandedly won state in the smallest school division. Also I guy from Montana did the same there in the 1990s, but he was eventually a decathlete.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby odelltrclan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:45 pm

I doubt she gets much motivation from beating high school talent. Everyone knows she is by far and away the best at the state level. Why risk injury to even attempt to satisfy someone that others would only view you as a failure as for not doing? The only real competition she has is the U.S. elite women and world elite youth. She might have to decide which she runs this year if running both is too close. It would be nice if they would let her on the world youth team and let her performance at USATF be the qualifier but I doubt that would happen.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:03 pm

I don't see why she wouldn't get as much gratification out of winning a team state championship as Lebron James did when he was in high school, or as Missy Franklin did just a couple of months ago.
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Re: Mary Cain vs America's Elite at Drake [4:10.77 HSR]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:24 pm

Well, none of the USA Gymnastics Olympians compete in their state high school competitions. I am not sure than any of the larger number of Elites do (I will ask my (very) local expert). This might be because USA Gymnastics prohibits it. Only a few of them go back later and compete in college. Of course, the women's team is composed almost entirely of 16-19 year olds, and those born in the year after the Olympics you are probably out of luck, as not many 19-year olds make the team.

Clearly, Cain's path is fundamentally different from other high school track and field athletes; she is generally far above them and in a highly marketable portion of the sport. Notice that she is probably not any better relative to the top US athletes in some of the throws and high jump this last year (but this has been pointed out before). Yet they competed in high school events as well, I think, although it is easier to do so in the throws and high jump.

I do wonder a little if the 4:15 will change people's perception of how far ahead Cain actually is?
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